Are Spurs on the Back Foot?

[Chimbo!]

According to Matt Scott, from the Guardian, Spurs are on the back foot due their swollen wage bill against a sharp fall in revenue from the lack of Champions League football.

He talks about it at the end of this recorded discussion from Talksport:

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/al...be-concerned-wengers-ability-transfer-market?

He believes that of the 6 vying for the top 4 next season, Spurs are in the weakest position.

Discuss.

 

[OneHotspur1988]

We have the better team but no spine, we thought Chelsea were going to do a Liverpool and it turned out we did.

 

[chrissivad]

the only reason we have a swollen wage bill is because we have so many players.
Our wage structure isn't based on us getting Champions League football.

 

[StartingPrice]

As I remember it, Dan Levy specificvally stated at the start of the season that he had budgeted for us failing to qualify for the CL league for a second successive season so there was no pressure on the manager to do so.

My memory being correct, I prefer to believe that Levy understands the clubs' financial situation better thana journo (no doubt with an agenda).

 

[Mr Pink]

First of all lets see how our squad is looking come the start of the season, a lot can change between now and then.

Second of all I think we'll be in a stronger position than Liverpool and on a par with Arsenal - particularly if the lose Fabregas etc and we keep hold of our star players, and that looks a pretty safe bet.

 

[Casparian]

So to clarify while..

Chelsea start afresh with a new manager and expect experienced egostic players only a year or two younger in most cases than new manager to respect him.They attempt to tap up Spurs star Luka Modric because they know they lack creativity,whilst also attempting to unsettle a fellow rival.New manager under pressure from the offski as stated by the man himself looks for xyz players none of which has being Luka since he arrived more Falcao,Neymar and Cahill.

Le Arse have to reshape their squad/team as they look set to lose atleast one of their star players indeed their very own captain actually.Players speak openly of unrest... where my freaking trophy yo?...Nasri,Van Persie and Song take a bow son.Fans remain restless and concerned in equal measures..we want Benzema,well you can have (Insert previously unknown gem) but atleast we got Bendtner!!!

Manure strengthen early and replace like for like out with the old in with the young.Expect to feature well in next seasons CL and again be taught a lesson by Barca hopefully forcing whiskeynose and Giggs to finally retire.Failing that a bit of tapping here media arse kissing there red truck keep on rolling.

Bindippers begin a season of transition under...pressure what pressure me loves me Comolli Daglish...complete with never stop moving revolving door...Kerching £20m Henderson...Adam £10m? banging son meet Carroll,aye big, strong, top dollar..oh the player sorry thought we talking pricetags...Panini this my media haters can I get me some Young and Jones please what you mean them be Utd?? always get Clichy boss oh but....

Hehe alright lads Mansour speaking and these are the results of our £300m 2 year spending spree erm 3rd.We plan to rock ya world baby Kaka stylee.Man-3DMs-cini ftw!! Wants Sanchez I know a speedy winger with skills and class but he wants Barca,who is this Barcelona? History bigger club? I give you £5m dollar a week...players with morals says no...haha but atleast Mr whiskeynose admits defeat in this venture also,and dem is the massive club in the world or in their plasicated minds anyway hehe...Ok being very serious now no really...We are going to pay spacebound wages for a 2nd rate superstar from a 3rd grade team..read them papers we is well interested in what other clubs be chasing yo...come see us in late August we be shifting in shakin we got rules to abide ya dig some FFP or something anyway we aint allowed have a 50 man roster,so we is well smart going to sell playas on the cheapski or even better pay the players even when they gone...ah the champ managers dream is a nightmare reality,i am telling ya straight up me got Messi on there proper cool on 500k a week wont even return me call in realtime though.

Tottenham Hotspur,Spurs,Lilywhites or that team that played CL for 1st time whilst maintaining their class on and off the pitch.General Levy at the helm,I be telling ya straight up we aint selling these star players yeah, you get me two bob reporters.Ah bless em really to lead a life that insists on speculating on other peoples lives its hard to decipher which more pathetic the persistent lies they drool or the infinite stupidity and lack of understanding for plain ol English.Btw yes I am the general that has overseen a decade in which season by season my baby T has risen both on and off the pitch from strength to strength and I applaud the above 5 clubs for taking there collective heads out of their arses to acknowledge we at Tottenham are a threat to your domination,with a tweak here and slight adjustment there.We got a TEAM not an uno,a dos or even a tres a collective unit one year wiser,stronger,hungry for the challenge ahead.It's disappointing we know to face reality but eh we got a decade of underhand tactics under our belt a tap here,dodgy ref there bit of old fabricated news into the mix and guess what like you lot above DEAL WITH IT!!!!

PS Modric,Sandro,Bale and VDV aint for sale...chin up whiskey face,crack a smile chief of le arse,buckle in tight commander villa boas,man up mankini and for gawd sake Daggy lad stick around til end of season yeah to acknowledge your betters toodles.

 

[brett.spurs]

It seems Levy had a long term plan of how to get Tottenham into the Top 4 and Champions League, but never considered what we'd need to do to stay there. The wage bill is a problem because Harry has amassed a frigging army of players and Levy doesn't want to sell them for a loss. Of the top 6 we're definitely the weakest.

 

[Bill_Oddie]

To be fair, he says "on the back foot" not "about to collapse, get relegated and disappear into financial oblivion".

While we all know we are not terribly placed and could do business that sees us more than competitive with those above us Scott means we have to sell players, sell quite a few players if we want to replace with higher quality and at the same time have to catch teams already better than us (ie won more points last season).

He's not that wrong, is he?

 

[Twizzle]

In Levy I trust

 

[spursandbarca]

crap.

francenal going to sell fabregas, clichy and possibly nasri. have to buy 3 new players that will take time to gel. squillaci and kocienly lol. they will be lucky to be top 4.

chelsea will attempt to sign half of portugal. moutinho, hulk, falcao etc. again who will take time to gel.

we have the basis of a good squad as long as modric doesnt leave. add 1 quality striker to it. doesnt take much change or time to gel.


liverpool signing youngsters like henderson. bit like when we signed andy reid.

 

[stevenurse]

wickham went to sunderland...but I know what you mean

 

[StockSpur]

plus everyone is also playing the waiting game for transfers, noone wants to pay stupid money for the likes of keane and jenas..

 

[StartingPrice]

To be fair, he says "on the back foot" not "about to collapse, get relegated and disappear into financial oblivion".

While we all know we are not terribly placed and could do business that sees us more than competitive with those above us Scott means we have to sell players, sell quite a few players if we want to replace with higher quality and at the same time have to catch teams already better than us (ie won more points last season).

He's not that wrong, is he?

He specifically mentions that we are facing a financial shortfall through not qualifying for the CL again that will cause difficulties - I have shown how, according to statements made by Dan Levy atthe start of the season, this is incorrect. As this was a central pillar of his argument that we are the worst placed of the 6 contenders for CL (n.b. understood, he didn't say on verge of collapse) I would say that harms his argument and the logicality of his conclusions somewhat.

Or am I wrong?

 

[Chimbo!]

He specifically mentions that we are facing a financial shortfall through not qualifying for the CL again that will cause difficulties - I have shown how, according to statements made by Dan Levy atthe start of the season, this is incorrect. As this was a central pillar of his argument that we are the worst placed of the 6 contenders for CL (n.b. understood, he didn't say on verge of collapse) I would say that harms his argument and the logicality of his conclusions somewhat.

Or am I wrong?

You are right. One of his premises for his conclusion relies on the negative impact of a lack of Champions League football on our finances. If it does not have the impact Scott says it does then his argument falls apart.

The problem, however, is that it is impossible to work out which of Levy or Scott is right because both have agendas. Levy would not want to admit to a financially weak position and Scott wants a news story. Who is right? Only time will tell.

 

[StartingPrice]

As I remember it, Dan Levy specificvally stated at the start of the season that he had budgeted for us failing to qualify for the CL league for a second successive season so there was no pressure on the manager to do so.

My memory being correct, I prefer to believe that Levy understands the clubs' financial situation better thana journo (no doubt with an agenda).

You are right. One of his premises for his conclusion relies on the negative impact of a lack of Champions League football on our finances. If it does not have the impact Scott says it does then his argument falls apart.

The problem, however, is that it is impossible to work out which of Levy or Scott is right because both have agendas. Levy would not want to admit to a financially weak position and Scott wants a news story. Who is right? Only time will tell.

Chimbo...I hate quoting myself shifty, but here's one I mae earlier ^^^...:grin:

The important point being that Levy stated at the start of the season that he had budgeted for us not requalifying, and that therefore not requalifying would have do no harm whatsoever to our plans...which (allegedly) included having a shi'ite load of money to spend in January, to which can be added some kind of usual 'Summer warchest' + CL money + player sales/wages recouped.
ITK has already said there is money there, backing up Levy's statement, made before a ball had been kicked (so any agenda he had would be entirely different to the one you are envisaging).
So, do you believe the Chairman in a statement made before the season started, backed by ITK recently, or do you believe a journo, who is not on the inside, who is making a lot of suppositions, and who, more than likely, has the journo-disease agenda thang (Eek) :shrug:

 

[Pringle]

i dont think we are on the back foot at all compared to the other clubs.

Man Utd are the strongest although they have gone for unproven players at that level so will be interesting to see if it works. Many talented keepers in particular have struggled at United and if De Gea doesnt work there could be problems........

Chelsea have a manager with a tiny amount of experience taking over a squad who is known to have problems where the players seem to think they run the club. Will they allow a 33 year old with little experience from a 2nd rate league run the club properly? From what i see, they are still the same ageing squad as they were last season!

Man City - potential to win the title next season IMO but will be interesting to see what happens with Tevez and also the impact of the CL games.

Arsenal - clearly going backwards! Fabregas, Clichy and Nasri all looking set to leave. If all 3 go i dont see them getting top 4.

Liverpool - There squad is far weaker than ours. If Henderson had signed for £2m rather than £20m no one would be worried - the guy is average and if they go for Adam then great news!

We need to keep hold of our players and add a striker then we d be fine. Not much change is needed imo - just clear out squad players and allow the current team to continue playing together with someone who can finish!

 

[sloth]

Just listened to the interview the guy quite obviously didn't have a clue what he was talking about so I think we can safely ignore any points he made on the specifics. He's paid to have an opinion and by god he'll have one, regardless of whether he actually knows anything or not.

On the general stuff, of the top six clubs we're probably currently the weakest and so least likely to qualify for CL next year. The reason for this imo is two-fold:

1. We're the poorest, we have the smallest stadium and no billionaire benefactor - this means we can't just go out and buy any player we fancy.

2. Having less money makes things harder, but it needn't be the game stopper, there are ways for a club our size to punch above our weight. For it to happen though we need a visionary chairman with a team working for him that shares that vision.

We don't have it.

For whatever reason almost everyone agrees that Harry will go if he's offered the England job, if true then his ambition is to do well next season.

So far so good. But not if to do well next season we harm the chances of us doing well the season afterwards. This is what happened to Leeds and more recently Portsmouth. A manager who intends to stick around would never have bought the players on unaffordable wages that Redknapp did at Portsmouth. A manager who intends to stick around would not be chasing so many over thirties on high wages at our club. You do it only if you want immediate success but without care for the medium and longer term.

In a similar vein, if your manager believes the only path to success is paying higher wages then de facto he hasn't bought into the idea that there is a harder but doable alternative way. We need a manager like Wenger who prides himself on doing it the alternative way, not one who bemoans the fact that we're not Chelsea and in doing so excuses himself from trying a different, harder way.

Harry does not share our Chairman's vision and so our chances are harmed and despite having perhaps the fifth best squad in the league everyone agrees we're the weakest of the six teams competing for a top-four position.

 

[Bill_Oddie]

He specifically mentions that we are facing a financial shortfall through not qualifying for the CL again that will cause difficulties - I have shown how, according to statements made by Dan Levy atthe start of the season, this is incorrect. As this was a central pillar of his argument that we are the worst placed of the 6 contenders for CL (n.b. understood, he didn't say on verge of collapse) I would say that harms his argument and the logicality of his conclusions somewhat.

Or am I wrong?

Of course you're wrong, SP. You should know that by now. :grin:

You are right. One of his premises for his conclusion relies on the negative impact of a lack of Champions League football on our finances. If it does not have the impact Scott says it does then his argument falls apart.

The problem, however, is that it is impossible to work out which of Levy or Scott is right because both have agendas. Levy would not want to admit to a financially weak position and Scott wants a news story. Who is right? Only time will tell.

Not exactly even agendas, are they? As agendas go.

Chimbo...I hate quoting myself shifty, but here's one I mae earlier ^^^...:grin:

The important point being that Levy stated at the start of the season that he had budgeted for us not requalifying, and that therefore not requalifying would have do no harm whatsoever to our plans...which (allegedly) included having a shi'ite load of money to spend in January, to which can be added some kind of usual 'Summer warchest' + CL money + player sales/wages recouped.
ITK has already said there is money there, backing up Levy's statement, made before a ball had been kicked (so any agenda he had would be entirely different to the one you are envisaging).
So, do you believe the Chairman in a statement made before the season started, backed by ITK recently, or do you believe a journo, who is not on the inside, who is making a lot of suppositions, and who, more than likely, has the journo-disease agenda thang (Eek) :shrug:

It's The Guardian, not Pravda! :lol:

The Chairman of a board makes a PR statement, an unbiased journalist writes a story in an independent newspaper in a country where the press is open and free. Which one do you believe?

Come on, this is the sort of conversation you'd expect to see in the KGB or something. He's really not criticising but sharing his understanding of a situation - which, SP, other ITK (why you'd choose them as Validators-in-Chief, I don't know but there's enough conflicting reports to make them inadmissable anyway) suggest is not completely inaccurate.

And besides, the basic common sense shows he's not completely wrong.

Of the top six sides in England which has the smallest attendance? CL funds this season (whether budgeted or not is regardless on his analysis. All it shows is we are not going to "do a Leeds". Scott never suggests we are).

And we have the fifth rated squad.

Ask yourselves whether the current squad is good enough to finish top four. If you are stopping yourself saying "Well, if we just sign..." then you are admitting that there is a lot of truth to what Scott is saying - we have to do a lot of work/forward momentum/get on the front foot/whatever you want to call it. The other sides bar Liverpool are already ahead of us and even they are spending to try to close the gap.

It seems we are taking this far too personally when it's a fair comment and one that I am convinced Levy and Harry actually agree with and will do everything in their power to solve. Which is all that matters.

i dont think we are on the back foot at all compared to the other clubs.

Man Utd are the strongest although they have gone for unproven players at that level so will be interesting to see if it works. Many talented keepers in particular have struggled at United and if De Gea doesnt work there could be problems........

Chelsea have a manager with a tiny amount of experience taking over a squad who is known to have problems where the players seem to think they run the club. Will they allow a 33 year old with little experience from a 2nd rate league run the club properly? From what i see, they are still the same ageing squad as they were last season!

Man City - potential to win the title next season IMO but will be interesting to see what happens with Tevez and also the impact of the CL games.

Arsenal - clearly going backwards! Fabregas, Clichy and Nasri all looking set to leave. If all 3 go i dont see them getting top 4.

Liverpool - There squad is far weaker than ours. If Henderson had signed for £2m rather than £20m no one would be worried - the guy is average and if they go for Adam then great news!

We need to keep hold of our players and add a striker then we d be fine. Not much change is needed imo - just clear out squad players and allow the current team to continue playing together with someone who can finish!

So you agree that we need to invest and are therefore not on the front foot?

I agree with your analysis, by the way. I would be more concerned if I were Arsenal than Spurs. At Spurs at least our solution is evident, even if it will be hard to achieve. At Arsenal I don't really know what they'll do if Nasri, Fabregas, Clichy and Bendtner all go. They either choose vastly overpriced, half-decent British players or foreigners and a threadbare squad. Either way, finishing fourth for them is going to be a bastard.

They just have the benefit of being the sitting tenants and hence we have to move forward AND they have to at worst make no progress.

 

[Pringle]

bill - just below the bit you highlighted, i commented that we need to clear out the squad players (generating wages and income for players) to do so. The only club that doesnt need to invest imo is Man Utd. Chelsea are ageing, City havent got anyone in and will have the CL to deal with, Arsenal look set to lose players and Liverpool need to invest as have a weak squad.

 

[StartingPrice]

Just listened to the interview the guy quite obviously didn't have a clue what he was talking about so I think we can safely ignore any points he made on the specifics. He's paid to have an opinion and by god he'll have one, regardless of whether he actually knows anything or not.

On the general stuff, of the top six clubs we're probably currently the weakest and so least likely to qualify for CL next year. The reason for this imo is two-fold:

1. We're the poorest, we have the smallest stadium and no billionaire benefactor - this means we can't just go out and buy any player we fancy.

2. Having less money makes things harder, but it needn't be the game stopper, there are ways for a club our size to punch above our weight. For it to happen though we need a visionary chairman with a team working for him that shares that vision.

We don't have it.

For whatever reason almost everyone agrees that Harry will go if he's offered the England job, if true then his ambition is to do well next season.

So far so good. But not if to do well next season we harm the chances of us doing well the season afterwards. This is what happened to Leeds and more recently Portsmouth. A manager who intends to stick around would never have bought the players on unaffordable wages that Redknapp did at Portsmouth. A manager who intends to stick around would not be chasing so many over thirties on high wages at our club. You do it only if you want immediate success but without care for the medium and longer term.

In a similar vein, if your manager believes the only path to success is paying higher wages then de facto he hasn't bought into the idea that there is a harder but doable alternative way. We need a manager like Wenger who prides himself on doing it the alternative way, not one who bemoans the fact that we're not Chelsea and in doing so excuses himself from trying a different, harder way.

Harry does not share our Chairman's vision and so our chances are harmed and despite having perhaps the fifth best squad in the league everyone agrees we're the weakest of the six teams competing for a top-four position.

The first half of you analysis is acceptable.
The second half is not.
Because...we do have a visionary Chairman, and roles have been created to ensure continuity from Academy up through to the first team squad. We would have to assume that this stafff has to be behind the Chairman's vision (it would be illogical not to be, seen as your very job description depends on it).

We have the young players (presuming we can keep hold of them). You are confusing levening that out with a few more experienced players with totally doing away with it and replacing it with a team of 30+ players on massive wages for one or two seasons of success (that is the doom-laden null hypothesis that continues to be peddled with no basis in fact).
What you say about Redknapp may be true (particulars are debatable, but he may well be off soon), but that is just one cog in a complex wheel. If we do well next season with are young and improving squad, it is not clear how Redknapp leaving is going to have such a negative impact as you portray. It may just as well incite an even better manager to take the reins.
I don't agree that it is so clear-cut as to say we have the fifth best squad.

As Pringle has shown, above, that is debatable. United are losing their most valuable players that have never been replaced and taking a bit of a gamble on players. Citeh have do more money to spend, but will be losing Tevez and having to adapt to the CL, and at this precise moment I do not accept or agree that they have a better squad at all, and they don't seem to be that happy a camp, either. Chelsea could go either way. But even accepting these three as being beyond us (which I don't), I think Liverpool are beneath us now, and won't catch up this year unless they triple their spending and get a bit of luck with players hitting the ground running. I also think that if the Goons stood still (which they won't) we are close to being on a par with them. As it is they have to finally deal with the 'Keeping/central defensive problem (which, to do effectively, would probably cost £35 - £40 M, going on the hypothetical price for Cahill), and compensate for the potential loss of Fabregas, Arshavin and Nasri - and Whinger has shown that he is at his best identifying yong players and training them up to play his system, and at his worst buying older overseas players to adapt to his system and the EPL.

Our financial states is not as severe as hsa been implied, we have a better, younger squad than you suggest, and you are overemphasising the potential impact of Redknapp leaving.