Match Threads Antwerp vs Spurs - Match Thread - Europa League - Game 2

[spursfan77]

Indifferent to it all now. Newcastle knocked the stuffing out of the season for me, West Ham result topped it with a cherry.

As ever the manager plays the players, the players, mostly, let the manager down - wash, rinse, repeat. It's 'A' result, until Sunday.

Reckon this is what we're going to be like for most of the season, frustratingly poor and outstandingly brilliant from match to match.

I can’t help but think it would be different if we were in the stadium. Doesn’t look promising on that front all season though unfortunately.

 

[SpursSince1980]

honestly, it's not about tonight. we're now 12 games deep in the season, let's have a little recap. Spurs host Everton, get thoroughly outplayed. move on to Bulgaria, struggle to beat Plovdiv. we go to Southampton, we get absolutely demolished the first half but somehow manage to score in the end of the half and we come back looking good during the second taking advantage of huge amounts of space in behind the defense. we did well there to change the outcome of the match but had Southampton capitalized on the chances they had or that late goal not appeared, I fail to see Southampton exposing themselves that much. they are a dominant side, they felt they could dominate possession and field position and ultimately paid an expensive price. Macedonia, another poor display, managed to snag the win with second half goals against very poor opposition. host Newcastle, the best performance of the season hands down. dominant from minute 1 all the way through 89 and we all know what happened. not even mad at that one (now). Chelsea for the League Cup. we did well after trailing but again, poor start, forced to play from behind. but still, I have this one on the positive side since Spurs did a good job getting back into the game and even after getting the equalizer, we were okay (even though they had a pair of great chances). then Maccabi. they had no idea how to defend, it was chances galore but we still looked extremely shaky defensively against poor opposition. result is excellent but the red flags persisted. United. okay, we were great almost all game long but for the few minutes it was a 11v11 game, we were outplayed. I cannot read too much into this honestly. it was good but it was good not due to systemic dominance but circunstancial situations. West Ham. I mean, we did well to create early chances, the clinical nature of our frontmen showed up but we got to the second half, failed to keep possession, failed to be organized, kept letting them play in our half. yes, it is a 1 in 50 situation but we welcomed it with the way the game went on. LASK was good, thought this one was a very clear, dominant victory. now Burnley. awful display, managed to create some late second half half chances and eventually it lead to a goal right at the end.

I'm sure some of you will disagree with some of the assessments I made but some of them are not debatable and I see a lot of people ignoring some situations due to the outcome of those matches. systematic success happens when conditions are created to do it consistently. we see today's game and it's not the fact that we lost that worries me, it is the fact that we struggle to have a consistent pattern of play, it's the fact that we get countless situations where players do not have solutions to link play, it is the fact that our midfield gets overrun most of the time, it is the fact that a lot of players get caught out of position in the last third, etc etc. are we making progress collectively? does it seem like players are getting corrected? look, I do not intend to claim I'm a football expert but I honestly cannot see anything that resembles a title winning side even if the direct opposition is also struggling.

we've established that the squad is as deep as it ever was but a lot of those guys aren't those ever reliable, plug and play players. they need organization and constant correction. I can accept that the first half today was a mixture of out of form and lack of cohesion product but were we that much better in the second? had they been clinical, it would have been a no doubter.

our core has been together for a long time now so that is not an excuse. I just can't see it. not like this. we have the resources to do much better than this but nothing from what I've seen so far screams success to me. hopefuly I'm dead wrong.

So, is this a long way of saying it might be a coaching problem?

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I can’t help but think it would be different if we were in the stadium. Doesn’t look promising on that front all season though unfortunately.

Yeah, at least not before the new year & then some.

 

[SpursSince1980]

I can’t help but think it would be different if we were in the stadium. Doesn’t look promising on that front all season though unfortunately.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's a combination of we blow hot and cold.
Too many players still in the team who are petrified of rough-n-tumble games.
Too many players with a poor mental attitude.
Too many players who make mistakes and lose focus far too often.
Lastly, we do seem to have a small tactical issue. Feels like we lack a particular style of play when we come up against teams like tonight. Not that there is an easy answer, 'cos there are many teams from our league who could suffer the same result as us against them.

The problem with this game all came down to willpower and focus. I do credit Antwerp for being solid at the back and their center forward for winning pretty much every ball they threw his way. We just didn't have the right attitude to fight and wear them down.
The truth of the matter is; they created maybe one or two half-decent chances in the first half. They scored from a catastrophic defensive mistake.

Yes, the second half they should have had two more as we were chasing the game, and still making defensive errors.

It's over to the players to sort out their attitude and the coaches to figure out a better way to play against this sort of team.

No reason to panic. Group stages and all that.

Hopefully it is also a wake up call to some of those fringe players that they have to pull out their collective thumbs.

 

[topper]

That was an absolute shit show, but also an EL performance we have seen a dozen times before. They want it, we don't.

Oh what a night
We once played football on a Tuesday night
We now play Thursday and we're fucking shite
What a feeling what a night

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Really want to know what Jose was trying to prove by making 4 subs at half time, we were no worse than we was at ht v Burnley besides the mistake by Davies. Vinicius played ok and should have got more time, same with Lo Celso unless he's being saved for Sunday.

Bergwijn was poor but at least had a couple of shots. Was definitely no worse than Bale who got an extra 15 mins.

Jose has done well so far managing the big squad we have but he'll need to be careful. Doing what he did and saying what he has said post match is a quick way to lose those squad players and create disharmony in the dressing room.

 

[TonyK]

I was there also. Aged 26.

We are both chosen ones then buddy!!

 

[JoaoPereira]

So, is this a long way of saying it might be a coaching problem?

I believe it is (a big) part of the problem, yes. and it's not like I intend to disrespect Mourinho or his legacy (actually gave me some of my best memories as a Porto fan) but the on field product just doesn't scream progress. he has a huge impact on the mentality of the squad with his man management approach but I just don't see how it is enough.

 

[sparx100]

It was an awful performance. Not reading much into it. Still shit though. I hate our central midfield.

 

[shelfmonkey]

Bit of an OTT reaction.

Not a reaction to this game, I just haven't been convinced by Mourinho from the off!

 

[rossdapep]

It’s frustrating because we have Europa league games between a run against city, chelsea and arsenal and we don’t want to be relying and Kane and Son then. We needed these points tonight to take control of the group and by us flexibility later.

Sanchez should never play without either Dier or Toby to lead.

That's why we shouldn't have made so many changes.

I said from the start we needed to get the 3 wins under the belt to give us a nice platform so that when we have the tougher PL games we could prioritise.

Kane and Son should have played

 

[Tucker]

Shameful performance.

 

[spursfan1991]

It was an early halloween present from spurs, they produced a fantastic horror show.

 

[ohtottenham!]

It’s frustrating because we have Europa league games between a run against city, chelsea and arsenal and we don’t want to be relying and Kane and Son then. We needed these points tonight to take control of the group and by us flexibility later.

Sanchez should never play without either Dier or Toby to lead.

Well, it's clear that the areas of CB and DCM have been our biggest squad challenges, and that showed today. Having Sanchez and Winks as the two "specialists" in those positions with our setup didn't give us enough defensive protection, nor a solid platform from which to build attacks.

 

[Tucker]

I hope we don’t make Antwerps of ourselves.

Ron Howard Narration: “But they did make Antwerps of themselves.“

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

One of those games where we just don’t get going. But have to say not sure why Vinicius came off at HT, 3 changes sure but for me that was a mistake by Jose.

 

[TonyK]

That's why we shouldn't have made so many changes.

I said from the start we needed to get the 3 wins under the belt to give us a nice platform so that when we have the tougher PL games we could prioritise.

Kane and Son should have played

I never understand why managers start a game with a weakened team. Surely, it makes more sense to start strong, kill the game as early as possible and then rest your better players.

 

[worcestersauce]

I never understand why managers start a game with a weakened team. Surely, it makes more sense to start strong, kill the game as early as possible and then rest your better players.

I think the idea was not to have to play the better players at all because the team that started was expected to win.

 

[rossdapep]

I never understand why managers start a game with a weakened team. Surely, it makes more sense to start strong, kill the game as early as possible and then rest your better players.

I can understand it to an extent as we had three games in 7 days. Monday, Thursday, Sunday.

Also, against LASK, Vinicius, Alli, etc all put in good performances so Jose probably felt that they'd do well again. And Bale had supposedly looked good in training.

Problem is, Antwerp seemed to be much better organised and dangerous which meant those same players needed to be much better too. Unfortunately they haven't had the time together to raise levels and be sharper with their understanding.

Think Jose will have learnt from it though. He won't make as many changes and some will be bench players for a while until they show they can be trusted again.

Another issue we have is CM without Hojbjerg. Winks can't hold the fort, and in fact, he's quickly becoming a bit useless and easily our most upgradeable player.

 

[Yid121]

I don’t know why but I’m struggling to be too pissed off with that game. Rubbish performances but if we win all our home games and another away one we will win the group.

These games are good to give players who aren’t in our first xi time even if they had bad games. It makes them feel part of the squad and they might be needed at a later date.

We now have to play our players we should be resting when we are playing City Chelsea in the coming weeks. We really just need to qualify and be done with this stage whilst we can