ENIC...

vegassd · Apr 13, 2020

ardiles&villa said:
Just watched spurs vs arsenal 4-4...I really miss that spurs, the signs of us being on the up, full of optimism and promise, fun and attractive football and not knowing that we got so close to glory before ENIC shat the bed.

It was interesting to watch that game back. It felt like a bit of a "golden era" back then but I think it was actually just more enjoyable because our expectations were lower. We were a top 10 team hoping for a bit of a cup run whilst pushing for European football, so when we had a bad game it was just part of the process. To me it felt like there was genuine camaraderie between Spurs fans because we were striving for a common goal.

Things have levelled up since then and I think that leads to the daggers being sharper. Us fans now have a broader range of ideas about what "success" should look like and it's more disappointing when we don't achieve it.

As someone else said, Arsenal should have scored another 2 or 3 probably, and even without that we were 5 minutes away from a 4-2 defeat. Our goalscorers that day (Bentley, Bent, Jenas, Lennon) all received massive criticism from fans during their time at Spurs. The same goes for Gomes, Hutton and Corluka who were also at fault for 3 of Arsenal's goals in that match. And the likes of Pav and Hudd were given massive amounts of stick as well.

So I would that watching us back then was probably more fun than now, but I think that's more about expectations (and the criticism that comes with that) rather than the quality of the players or even how we played. I personally think our expectations are ahead of where they probably should be, and it's what did for Poch and what fuels much of the ENIC criticism. Just my opinion.

KikoSpurs · Apr 13, 2020

Bobbins said:
So it's April and we're now moving Player Watch threads to the Transfer Rumours section of the forum are we? Where massive numbers of people can't access or contribute to the discussions? Just because a paper made up a rumour about Kane moving to United?

Yeah great idea that. The transfer window isn't even open, the season hasn't even got close to finishing, and that's what we're doing on SC.

What is the point? Why not just move all the player watch threads to the Transfers section permanently just in case there's ever a transfer rumour for any one of them? Would save on admin. Admittedly, half the forum can't then access the threads but it's not like that's important, apparently. Why not just turn SC into a paid membership site and be done with it?

Oh no hold on I've already paid a decent chunk of money to SC over the years and still got banned from there for no reason, so that doesn't work.

So incredibly and pointlessly frustrating.

Yeah, I got banned because I said Gards just say rubbish on twitter. He isn't even in the forum btw.

Lighty64 · Apr 13, 2020

KikoSpurs said:
Yeah, I got banned because I said Gards just say rubbish on twitter. He isn't even in the forum btw.

he is under a different name now, just can't remember it

swarvsta · Apr 13, 2020

swarvsta said:
P.S

I have heard rumours within my industry that we will amend our decision and backtrack on the original plan.

Watch this space.

Shadydan said:
Judging by this thread I dread to think what you're advising them

SpunkyBackpack said:
Im calling doubt on your 'expert' claim but anyway. If you have a team of 100+ people doing research on marketing link-ups and you can convince your boss not to fire you for massively wasting money then more power to you.

Using your analogy this is more like it-

Jimmy runs a local business. He approaches his local football team and offers them £1000 to sponsor the club shirts next year.

The owner of the club wont approve time off to Sandra from the ticket office even though she has a holiday booked and she put in for it ahead of time. She is upset and her family are upset, also some of her friends are pissed off too and post on facebook.

The football club owner goes back to Jimmy to ask for payment of his £1000 sponsorship money.

Jimmy gives the money because its a small thing, nobody was racist and most of his target market have no idea what the issue was anyway.

And now i actually am done. You can spam rate my post now.

Nebby said:
Saving £4.5 million is "counter productive". Watch out fellas, we're dealing with a business genius here.

dontcallme said:
His argument appears to be we'll save £4.5m but then lose more than that in lost sponsorship. If it was that simple I have no doubt that Levy and the board would see this.

Nebby said:
The one won’t have any bearing on the other.

dontcallme said:
I agree but our resident expert doesn't.

Took insane amounts of pelters in this thread. As per above, and from

@Vinny_Sammways_left_peg, @Shadydan @Lighty64 especially.

So much so that I couldn’t be bothered to come on here for a while.

Tried to pass on my expert knowledge in good faith, but got ridiculed and my profession questioned. I guess that’s the nature of Internet forums.

I decided to just forget trying to explain how and why the decision was the wrong one, but apparently I knew nothing.

I mentioned 3 times that the decision would be reversed, and pleased to see it has been.

Still have no idea how the club made such a grave error of judgement. I am desperately trying to find out.

None of the 4 clubs my company work with were even considering it, for the exact reasons I detailed numerous times.

Anyway, I will hopefully post some more relevant information in future, and hopefully not have to suffer the same sort of abuse.

dontcallme · Apr 13, 2020

swarvsta said:
Took insane amounts of pelters in this thread. As per above, and from

@Vinny_Sammways_left_peg, @Shadydan @Lighty64 especially.

So much so that I couldn’t be bothered to come on here for a while.

Tried to pass on my expert knowledge in good faith, but got ridiculed and my profession questioned. I guess that’s the nature of Internet forums.

I decided to just forget trying to explain how and why the decision was the wrong one, but apparently I knew nothing.

I mentioned 3 times that the decision would be reversed, and pleased to see it has been.

Still have no idea how the club made such a grave error of judgement. I am desperately trying to find out.

None of the 4 clubs my company work with were even considering it, for the exact reasons I detailed numerous times.

Anyway, I will hopefully post some more relevant information in future, and hopefully not have to suffer the same sort of abuse.

I didn't ridicule your profession. You have been every bit as rude and abusive as anything directed at yourself.

A couple of years ago a poster here started criticising Poch's coaching. A few people disagreed with him. His defence was he is a low level coach so understands coaching better than us. He didn't seem to grasp that him saying he is a coach makes his view automatically correct but couldn't see the irony in him criticising a coach at a higher level.

The point I was making was that Levy and ENIC will also have high level people in your profession advising him. So your view that you are automatically correct because of your profession didn't really make sense.

You also couldn't come up with any like for like comparisons. You compared us, a Premier league football team, to individual sports stars for lost sponsorship but couldn't appear to tell the difference in the situations.

Now we have backtracked we will never know if our decision to furlough would have affected our sponsorship deals but I have no doubt you will claim this as a sign that you were right.

Bobbins · Apr 13, 2020

swarvsta said:
Took insane amounts of pelters in this thread. As per above, and from

Anyway, I will hopefully post some more relevant information in future, and hopefully not have to suffer the same sort of abuse.

Mate if you think that counts as abuse, whatever you do don't join Twitter or start posting on 4chan :LOL:

SpunkyBackpack · Apr 13, 2020

Bobbins said:
Mate if you think that counts as abuse, whatever you do don't join Twitter or start posting on 4chan

Or have a conversation with someone who might disagree with you. I say that as an expert.

(ironically this post would actually warrant a spam rating)

Shadydan · Apr 13, 2020

swarvsta said:
Took insane amounts of pelters in this thread. As per above, and from

@Vinny_Sammways_left_peg, @Shadydan @Lighty64 especially.

So much so that I couldn’t be bothered to come on here for a while.

Tried to pass on my expert knowledge in good faith, but got ridiculed and my profession questioned. I guess that’s the nature of Internet forums.

I decided to just forget trying to explain how and why the decision was the wrong one, but apparently I knew nothing.

I mentioned 3 times that the decision would be reversed, and pleased to see it has been.

Still have no idea how the club made such a grave error of judgement. I am desperately trying to find out.

None of the 4 clubs my company work with were even considering it, for the exact reasons I detailed numerous times.

Anyway, I will hopefully post some more relevant information in future, and hopefully not have to suffer the same sort of abuse.

That's not why you took pelters for and you know it, incredible reach but whatever floats your boat ?

Lighty64 · Apr 13, 2020

swarvsta said:
Took insane amounts of pelters in this thread. As per above, and from

@Vinny_Sammways_left_peg, @Shadydan @Lighty64 especially.

So much so that I couldn’t be bothered to come on here for a while.

Tried to pass on my expert knowledge in good faith, but got ridiculed and my profession questioned. I guess that’s the nature of Internet forums.

I decided to just forget trying to explain how and why the decision was the wrong one, but apparently I knew nothing.

I mentioned 3 times that the decision would be reversed, and pleased to see it has been.

Still have no idea how the club made such a grave error of judgement. I am desperately trying to find out.

None of the 4 clubs my company work with were even considering it, for the exact reasons I detailed numerous times.

Anyway, I will hopefully post some more relevant information in future, and hopefully not have to suffer the same sort of abuse.

PELTERS off of me :ROFLMAO:

the only post I quoted of yours, and you never even had the decency to debate it to get pelted.

now your taking credit, where another poster mentioned it was due to the players not being happy

swarvsta said:
The furlough decision is saving us how much per month? Let’s say £1.5million at a stretch.

Let’s say we furlough for 3 months.

We save £4.5million

Now....

We come to finalise a deal for the stadium...

The value of this deal will be reduced by MORE than £4.5million.

I know, because it’s my profession.

This alone proves my point. Without all the other negatives associated with the decision.

Fortunately there are more sensible people on here that have agreed with me, but not going to bother arguing with people who don’t have the knowledge of this area of business to understand.

If you want some example reports of what we use at to assess the value of sponsorship deals when processing bid management, let me know.

but we don't know how long this will go on for, and with no income how long do you take the hit for. are you suggesting that we pay them until we can't afford it any more?

Deleted member 27995 · Apr 13, 2020

swarvsta said:
Took insane amounts of pelters in this thread. As per above, and from

@Vinny_Sammways_left_peg, @Shadydan @Lighty64 especially.

So much so that I couldn’t be bothered to come on here for a while.

Tried to pass on my expert knowledge in good faith, but got ridiculed and my profession questioned. I guess that’s the nature of Internet forums.

I decided to just forget trying to explain how and why the decision was the wrong one, but apparently I knew nothing.

I mentioned 3 times that the decision would be reversed, and pleased to see it has been.

Still have no idea how the club made such a grave error of judgement. I am desperately trying to find out.

None of the 4 clubs my company work with were even considering it, for the exact reasons I detailed numerous times.

Anyway, I will hopefully post some more relevant information in future, and hopefully not have to suffer the same sort of abuse.

riggi · Apr 14, 2020

swarvsta said:
Took insane amounts of pelters in this thread. As per above, and from

@Vinny_Sammways_left_peg, @Shadydan @Lighty64 especially.

So much so that I couldn’t be bothered to come on here for a while.

Tried to pass on my expert knowledge in good faith, but got ridiculed and my profession questioned. I guess that’s the nature of Internet forums.

I decided to just forget trying to explain how and why the decision was the wrong one, but apparently I knew nothing.

I mentioned 3 times that the decision would be reversed, and pleased to see it has been.

Still have no idea how the club made such a grave error of judgement. I am desperately trying to find out.

None of the 4 clubs my company work with were even considering it, for the exact reasons I detailed numerous times.

Anyway, I will hopefully post some more relevant information in future, and hopefully not have to suffer the same sort of abuse.

buckley · Apr 15, 2020

Abramovich 12 billion £. City 33 billion £ and now Newcastle 1.1 trillion £
And people wonder why we don't compete with the uber rich .
I think that success on the field has become even harder with the Newcastle takeover .

Metalhead · Apr 15, 2020

buckley said:
Abramovich 12 billion £. City 33 billion £ and now Newcastle 1.1 trillion £
And people wonder why we don't compete with the uber rich .
I think that success on the field has become even harder with the Newcastle takeover .

Which is why I guess that as frustrating as Levy can be, it's hard to think of anyone more capable of maximising revenue potential in the absence of a super rich owner (which isn't going to happen). With all that's happened though, he's got his work cut out getting us back into being a club that fights for top 4 every season, let alone winning major honours.

shelfboy68 · Apr 15, 2020

Metalhead said:
Which is why I guess that as frustrating as Levy can be, it's hard to think of anyone more capable of maximising revenue potential in the absence of a super rich owner (which isn't going to happen). With all that's happened though, he's got his work cut out getting us back into being a club that fights for top 4 every season, let alone winning major honours.

Newcastle might well be a threat to the top four/six in a few years if they are prepared to invest, might be a problem for us in the longer term.

Saoirse · Apr 15, 2020

If Newcastle do start spending big, I wouldn't be surprised to see it lead to the end of the current UCL format and the importance of the Top 4. The big English clubs, who obviously do quite well generally from football's status quo, are one of the main barriers to the idea of making it a more league-style format with promotion and relegation each since between the UCL and the Europa League, and between the Europa League and the new third-tier competition starting in 2021. If it become increasingly difficult for even the biggest English clubs to consistently finish in the Top 4, that might being to change.

pelayo59 · Apr 15, 2020

Saoirse said:
If Newcastle do start spending big, I wouldn't be surprised to see it lead to the end of the current UCL format and the importance of the Top 4. If it become increasingly difficult for even the biggest English clubs to consistently finish in the Top 4, that might being to change.

They can't do that with FFP.

buckley said:
Abramovich 12 billion £. City 33 billion £ and now Newcastle 1.1 trillion £
And people wonder why we don't compete with the uber rich .
I think that success on the field has become even harder with the Newcastle takeover .

Tbh how rich are owners means nothing. Our owners are richer than Liverpool on United and they spend more than us. Stade Rennais have the richest owners as individuals in football and they spend nothing.

buckley · Apr 16, 2020

To say " rich owners mean nothing " is in my view not correct the fact is the two most successful clubs over the last ten years are Chelsea and Man City and to say "their money means nothing " is very misleading as to my eyes without their money they would be meandering in mid or lower table and not challenging for everything going . That is not to say that a lot can be achieved without the big bucks because a lot can be achieved but not with longevity of success as somewhere along the line to achieve long lasting trophy winning big bucks will be needed somewhere along the line .

Led's Zeppelin · Apr 16, 2020

buckley said:
To say " rich owners mean nothing " is in my view not correct the fact is the two most successful clubs over the last ten years are Chelsea and Man City and to say "their money means nothing " is very misleading as to my eyes without their money they would be meandering in mid or lower table and not challenging for everything going . That is not to say that a lot can be achieved without the big bucks because a lot can be achieved but not with longevity of success as somewhere along the line to achieve long lasting trophy winning big bucks will be needed somewhere along the line .

Some truth in this of course, but “meaningless” is open to interpretation.

I consider many of Chelsea’s trophies to be meaningless because Abramovich simply bought them off the shelf like I used to buy toilet rolls in the good old days. Got the money? Have as many as you like.

So if someone richer comes along with more money and outbids Chelsea for a few titles, as Sheik Mansour did, what does that really mean? Got more money? Have what you want.

And if for argument’s sake Newcastle now outbid Man City, what will that mean?

To me, it will mean that football has been perverted into something that wants to get as far away as possible from the idea of the game of football, its uncertainties and unpredictability, or about ideas, invention, creativity, skill, cleverness, excitement, or the first notion of what sport is about.

It is purely and exclusively about how much money you’ve got, and absolutely fuck all else. Got the cash? Here’s the trophy.

And what meaning is there in that?

dagraham · Apr 16, 2020

Led's Zeppelin said:
Some truth in this of course, but “meaningless” is open to interpretation.

I consider many of Chelsea’s trophies to be meaningless because Abramovich simply bought them off the shelf like I used to buy toilet rolls in the good old days. Got the money? Have as many as you like.

So if someone richer comes along with more money and outbids Chelsea for a few titles, as Sheik Mansour did, what does that really mean? Got more money? Have what you want.

And if for argument’s sake Newcastle now outbid Man City, what will that mean?

To me, it will mean that football has been perverted into something that wants to get as far away as possible from the idea of the game of football, its uncertainties and unpredictability, or about ideas, invention, creativity, skill, cleverness, excitement, or the first notion of what sport is about.

It is purely and exclusively about how much money you’ve got, and absolutely fuck all else. Got the cash? Here’s the trophy.

And what meaning is there in that?

It’s pretty much gone that way already though, and why the Leicester title win so captivated the football world. Yes, unfortunately we suffered as a result ( which clouded all our views, despite the many various arguments put up by Spurs fans about how horrible they were/dirty/defensive/bias officiating etc).

It was irritating in the extreme, but totally understandable the swell of collective support they were receiving.

Doctor Dinkey · Apr 16, 2020

Led's Zeppelin said:
Some truth in this of course, but “meaningless” is open to interpretation.

I consider many of Chelsea’s trophies to be meaningless because Abramovich simply bought them off the shelf like I used to buy toilet rolls in the good old days. Got the money? Have as many as you like.

So if someone richer comes along with more money and outbids Chelsea for a few titles, as Sheik Mansour did, what does that really mean? Got more money? Have what you want.

And if for argument’s sake Newcastle now outbid Man City, what will that mean?

To me, it will mean that football has been perverted into something that wants to get as far away as possible from the idea of the game of football, its uncertainties and unpredictability, or about ideas, invention, creativity, skill, cleverness, excitement, or the first notion of what sport is about.

It is purely and exclusively about how much money you’ve got, and absolutely fuck all else. Got the cash? Here’s the trophy.

And what meaning is there in that?

I'd love a few meaningless trophies

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