Next Manager Watch

PLTuck · Jun 1, 2023

danielneeds said:
I love this assumption that everyone from one country knows each other and gets on. That’s the way life works, right?

My first wife was scottish. When we met I was in scotland and talking to her family.

One said to me, "Oh you're a londoner. Do you know Jake Millies, he lives in london"
"What part of london?"
"Birmingham"

danielneeds · Jun 1, 2023

Tonio said:
You ought to ask yourself that very question. If unconscious bias is your only answer then I’d suggest you haven’t given it much thought. I’d say in answer to your question, there most probably is but it might not suit your agenda.

Again, please give me some other reasons why, instead of gaslighting bullshit.

Albertbarich · Jun 1, 2023

JUSTINSIGNAL said:
I don't disagree that every club has always had some level of data led recruitment. It is just how far you take it. We've definitely been doing it to an extent since Daniel Commoli was our DOF.

My point is we need a manager who is the right fit for us, will work within our model, rather than employing someone who is going to try and burn the house down if they don't get what they want. If that is Ange, then so be it. The reason Poch worked is because he understood the parameters of the club.

Employing managers like Conte who kick off the moment they don't get what they want doesn't help the general forward momentum of the club. It's better everyone understands the assignment from the outset so we can move forward together.

Is there another manager in the world as combustible as Conte and Mourinho? I can't think of one.

The calls to copy Brentford and Brighton are misleading in that what people really mean is that they're well run but so are City and we're not going to try and exactly replicate their model and we shouldn't . The point is were at a different level to all three of those clubs. City obviously live in this other planet but the former two are small clubs currently punching above their weight and good luck to em but when you look at our fanbase, our incomes,our history, infrastructure - there is no way we should be gaslighting ourselves into thinking the best we can hope for is to compete with them.

You say Poch worked because he knew the parameters of the club but that's not true is it? He worked because along come this wonderkid who with the help of a few others turned us from a top eight team to title contenders but when it came to reinvesting and changing it was a disaster. We read that he rejected loads of players , we stopped signing people and in the end when he got his way we'll you know.

Of course we need someone to work within our structure but what is that? Are we chasing the champions league at all costs? Are we going full on data only? What is it? Why are we hiring a manager without a director of football? Scott Munn Is a commercial director not a football expert.

I like that you always try and be positive and I certainly think Ange is likeable and you never know but the appointment considering who they have ignored and his CV has terrible optics.

THOWIG · Jun 1, 2023

Like Slot he seems a manager that the players would like, but also fear in equal measure which is a good thing.

JUSTINSIGNAL · Jun 1, 2023

Joshua said:
He wouldn’t have been my first choice at the start but with the current playing field that’s left (much due to our own doing) I think we could do much worse.

Not that arsed about his age or career history. We mock coaches like Lampard and Gerrard for having things handed to them because of their playing careers, so we shouldn’t deride someone for actually working their way up organically. For a comparison look at someone like Maurizio Sarri who grafted for years and eventually got the big gig at Napoli in his late 50’s. He went on to become a hero there before getting a European trophy and a Serie A title under his belt at other top jobs following his success there. I wouldn’t be holding someone actually spending their career working towards the top against them.

Sarri is a really good comparison tbh.

He was never even a professional footballer. Worked his way up from the equivalent of a part-time Sunday league manager and is now one of the best managers in Serie A.

Nick-TopSpursMan · Jun 1, 2023

Trees said:
Been on the Celtic forums, they all seem to think he is off. All mention about their striker Kyogo. 2 years left on his deal and will be joining him. May tie in with Kulu not being completed ?

Different positions though? Kyogo is a striker, Deki is a CM/CAM/RWF.

I wonder if he looks to bring Hatate with him if he comes. Creative CM and Brighton have been tracking him closely.

Trees · Jun 1, 2023

Ange agent Frank Trimboli close with Levy apparently ? This has legs now doesnt it.

roy@SC · Jun 1, 2023

Albertbarich said:
I bet 99% of the squad will have never heard of him which makes his job much harder as he is going to have to work twice as hard to win the them over.

This is a group that downed tools for Conte so you better believe they wouldn't show up for someone they don't fancy

I agree it could work out but I also admit if he was the manager of a league one club which I read is a comparable level to the SPL I'd be raging.

It's a strange appointment but I'm ready for the ride. Hoping we could luck into something approaching fun.

Let's get rid of 99% of the squad then... seriously, they haven't responded to 3 managers now, why is it AP's problem that u don't think they will respond to him? Time to gut the squad imo.

Albertbarich · Jun 1, 2023

roy@SC said:
Let's get rid of 99% of the squad then... seriously, they haven't responded to 3 managers now, why is it AP's problem that u don't think they will respond to him? Time to gut the squad imo.

That's not going to happen mate.

cjbyid · Jun 1, 2023

Trees said:
Been on the Celtic forums, they all seem to think he is off. All mention about their striker Kyogo. 2 years left on his deal and will be joining him. May tie in with Kulu not being completed ?

Reading their forum myself, Kyogo has been quality for them. Obviously remains to be seen can he do it somewhere else but it might be a good option.

Celtic do have an eye for a decent player though, VVD, wanyama etc

Tonio · Jun 1, 2023

danielneeds said:
Again, please give me some other reasons why, instead of gaslighting bullshit.

It’s not my job to educate you. You were determined that unconscious bias was to blame using words like ‘definitely’. I called you out and suggested that might not be the case and that possibly there was another reason. I suggest before you post such bollocks yourself you might want to consider other possibilities? That’s not bullshit it’s common sense.

roy@SC · Jun 1, 2023

Albertbarich said:
That's not going to happen mate.

I know

Whitey · Jun 1, 2023

RobjDerby said:
Well, that cant be AP right?

Get away with is key..... AP might just be that man!

leray · Jun 1, 2023

mil1lion said:
Sorry but this prejudice excuse is such bullshit. Fans on social media may be but there is plenty of examples of managers all around the world getting opportunities in the top European leagues. I think people sre getting a bit too defensive just for doubting Ange at this point.

I'm not saying he doesn't stand a chance. He could do well and I get the sense he could be the next Redknapp. Not sure why saying there's a concern is so controversial? I mean it's just a concern because it's taken so long without managing at the top level.

I'm looking at the currently employed managers in the top5 leagues.

In the Premier League there are managers from the UK, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Italy, all traditional footballing countries. Frank is from Denmark, but he was first an assistant coach at Brentford.

In La Liga there's a greater diversity with Chilean, Mexican, Argentinian and Uruguayan managers all currently employed. But all those are Spanish speaking countries. Pellegrini and Aguirre have worked in Spanish football for years.

Bundesliga: mostly Germans, Austrians and Swiss. One Hungarian (Hertha legend Pal Dardai), one Croat (Bayern legend Niko Kovac), one American (Pelegrino Matarazzo who lives in Germany for over 20 years), and one Spaniard (football legend Xabi Alonso).

Ligue 1: mostly French, couple of Belgians, one Armenian (Michel Der Zakarian, grew up in France), one Australian (Patrick Kisnorbo, played in Europe for 10 years), one Croat (Igor Tudor who worked in Serie A and played in Juventus for quite some time).

Serie A: mostly Italians, two Portuguese, one Croat and one Serb who live in Italy for decades now.

Of course there might be some examples of managers all around the world getting opportunities, but currently there aren't any working in the TOP5 leagues.

danielneeds · Jun 1, 2023

Tonio said:
It’s not my job to educate you. You were determined that unconscious bias was to blame using words like ‘definitely’. I called you out and suggested that might not be the case and that possibly there was another reason. I suggest before you post such bollocks yourself you might want to consider other possibilities? That’s not bullshit it’s common sense.

Do you have a Twitter profile with a Greek philosopher as your banner by any chance?

Cavehillspur · Jun 1, 2023

Trees said:
Been on the Celtic forums, they all seem to think he is off. All mention about their striker Kyogo. 2 years left on his deal and will be joining him. May tie in with Kulu not being completed ?

Watch quite a bit of Celtic, Kyogo is pretty injury prone and is coming 29 also think hed be a bit lightweight for the league. I like the look of Hatate though, creative midfielder if Ange came and was bringing anyone with him Hatate would be my pick.

Also on Kulu, think its being completed for around 25mil?

mil1lion · Jun 1, 2023

roy@SC said:
Let's get rid of 99% of the squad then... seriously, they haven't responded to 3 managers now, why is it AP's problem that u don't think they will respond to him? Time to gut the squad imo.

99% haven't been with us for the last 3 years. This same players line is tiresome. We've had plenty of signings over the last few years. Yes there are a small group still here and a few should be replaced. However this idea all the players are bad and we need a complete overhaul is ridiculous. It's like people think Brighton are full of more winners than us. We have players who have won world cups and titles at other clubs. We had one of the higher number of players at the world cup. We just have some that aren't at that level particularly in defence. We've been rebuilding the last few years but it takes time. We just need a manager who will build on the quality we do have and get the chance to replace the ones who are not good enough without spending too much.

JUSTINSIGNAL · Jun 1, 2023

Albertbarich said:
Is there another manager in the world as combustible as Conte and Mourinho? I can't think of one.

The calls to copy Brentford and Brighton are misleading in that what people really mean is that they're well run but so are City and we're not going to try and exactly replicate their model and we shouldn't . The point is were at a different level to all three of those clubs. City obviously live in this other planet but the former two are small clubs currently punching above their weight and good luck to em but when you look at our fanbase, our incomes,our history, infrastructure - there is no way we should be gaslighting ourselves into thinking the best we can hope for is to compete with them.

You say Poch worked because he knew the parameters of the club but that's not true is it? He worked because along come this wonderkid who with the help of a few others turned us from a top eight team to title contenders but when it came to reinvesting and changing it was a disaster. We read that he rejected loads of players , we stopped signing people and in the end when he got his way we'll you know.

Of course we need someone to work within our structure but what is that? Are we chasing the champions league at all costs? Are we going full on data only? What is it? Why are we hiring a manager without a director of football? Scott Munn Is a commercial director not a football expert.

I like that you always try and be positive and I certainly think Ange is likeable and you never know but the appointment considering who they have ignored and his CV has terrible optics.

I agree we are at a different stage in our history, development, infrastructure etc...to Brighton and Brentford. However there are definitely lessons to be learned about how they are punching above their weight against teams with much larger budgets than them. And that is what i'm sure we are trying to replicate in our mini battle against our top 6 rivals. As we're certainly never going to spend our way to the top. If this means we lean more on data, then the manager really needs to embrace that.

Poch did understand the parameters of the club to begin with. The issue was that he overachieved to such an extent that the level of the team out grew the infrastructure of the club at the time. The club were unable to back him to really help us push on and build on his work because the focus was on the stadium, and until that was ready we didn't have the extra revenue to sign the level of player required. He even said that his remit had been to develop the team so it was ready to compete for the top 4 by the time the stadium was complete, and he obviously did that well ahead of schedule. So he happily worked within the parameters until expectations changed and his ambition meant he got frustrated.

I think our new structure will be geared up to attain regular champions league football but staying within our sustainable data-led recruitment model. Very similar to how Liverpool operate under FSG (ironically there is a FSG-out movement). The club have said they have reviewed the internal setup and appointments will be made in the coming months so i'm sure it will all become clearer by the start of next season.

easley91 · Jun 1, 2023

This thread just goes round in circles.

Rusev Exhausted GIF - Rusev Exhausted Tired - Discover & Share GIFs

Do none of you get bored discussing the same points 24/7?

Tonio · Jun 1, 2023

danielneeds said:
Can you name any Aussie, Japanese, or Korean coaches who’ve got big European jobs? Hell, let’s even ask about an African coach who’s got one? Let’s face it, BAME coaches hardly get a chance in the UK. There is definitely loads of unconscious biases in selecting managers in Europe.

Not sure how this post has so many likes. Even a cursory glance at Google tells you that Lito Vidigal an African football manager has managed and still does manage a decent team in Portugal. What about the suggestion BAME managers hardly get a chance? Patrick Viera, Chris Powell, Sol Campbell, Ruud Gullit, Paul Ince. I could go on.
Edit: Harry Kewell Australian. Managed Crawley, Notts County, Oldham and Barnet albeit not big euro jobs.
Edit: oops forgot Nuno Esposito Santo how could I forget him.

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