Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

h2005 said:

This is really confusing. Is he going? I seen some ITK saying he’s going to be backed. Do we know where we are when the window closes?

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It will be a telling window. If he's not going to be then I'd rather he went now.

Spursfan1414 said:

I wish I could winner this 1000x.

Saying “Conte is doing a bad job with our current squad” does not make you a Levy sycophant.

Conte is not the hero to Levy’s villain. They can both be massive issues at the same time, in different ways.

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I agree. No doubt Levy only cares about money and profits. I know that. And I know because of that it's harmed the team over the years. He's held us back where it really matters - on the field.

However, I'm not currently going because of Conte's football. Levy's always been the same but it's never stopped me wanting to go. I love Spurs.

Levy isn't responsible for playing Emerson consistently when he's literally hitting the car park with a shot away at Bournemouth and countless awful displays.
Levy isn't responsible for us playing 2 CMs against 3 every week so we have no control at all.
Levy isn't responsible for what is being served up as a result of Conte's fucking insistence on playing a certain way with a certain philosophy that not only isn't working but it fucking looks horrible too.

When we were in the top 4, from some it was 'yeah performances aren't great but we're getting results and that's what matters'. Now our forms fell of a cliff and its somehow not Conte's fault when it was down to him we were top 4. I don't buy it.

Conte needs to sort himself out and start earning his £15m per year to get the best out of what we have. He isn't doing this. The football is so bad.

Levy, Jesus Christ, I'd love us to change our structure or I'd love to say Levy needs to invest properly in the players the MANAGER wants, but it's not going to change.

It's depressing. Ultimately I love Spurs like you lot do. We all want us to succeed. I just hate everything about us currently. Everything.

I don't get why Contes even bothering fighting the baord I'd have just walked

Spursfan1414 said:

100% we’d be better playing 433 right now. Drop a CB, play Emerson as the RB he is and put Bissouma or Sarr in midfield so we can actually compete in there.

Hell, if you still want to play 3 at the back in possession, ask Davies to play LB and play lopsided fullbacks.

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Davies best position now is LCB and in his younger days when he had a bit more pace he was just a squad player under Poch so how would he improve us down the left over playing Perisic at LWB. You would be one injury away from have Doherty at RB and one injury to Davies from having sessegnon or Perisic at LB. Also would you like to see Dier again in a back 4 after the way he performed under mourinho.

Mark_147 said:

Some of the these players are not good enough to play 2-3 games a week without mistakes creeping into their game unlike last season when they only had one game a week for the 2nd half of the season.

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Against the top teams, sure. But they are consistently the second best team on the pitch.

Mark_147 said:

Davies best position now is LCB and in his younger days when he had a bit more pace he was just a squad player under Poch so how would he improve us down the left over playing Perisic at LWB. You would be one injury away from have Doherty at RB and one injury to Davies from having sessegnon or Perisic at LB. Also would you like to see Dier again in a back 4 after the way he performed under mourinho.

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Players =/= Positions.

Playing as a defensive fullback is at least 80% the same as playing as a wide CB.

You can’t directly compare players with a switch like this. Yeah Davies is a downgrade on Peresic, but playing Emerson in a position where he’s primarily defensive is a huge upgrade. Getting a 3rd CM on the pitch is a huge upgrade.

And you don’t have to stick with those, you can mix and match. Ask Emerson to play as a defensive RB and make up a back 3 in possession and you can have Peresic or Sess on the other side easily. Emerson injured? Switch the sides, play Doherty or Spence as the attacking wingback and use Davies as hybrid LB/LCB. We saw this under Mourinho.

What I would like, if we’re going to play Eric Dier, is to play a system where we actually control the midfield.

h2005 said:

This is really confusing. Is he going? I seen some ITK saying he’s going to be backed. Do we know where we are when the window closes?

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Levy thinks it already has

Spursfan1414 said:

Based on what? Paratici was here well before Conte, clearly he’s not contingent on Conte being here.

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The issue with Paratici is that he also favours a back three - and is generally a defensive minded DoF. There was talk that one of the reasons we dropped Fonseca when Paratici came in is because he was too attacking. Plus Conte is basically the ideal manager for Paratici.

It’s not impossible he would stay, but he’d want to pick a manager similar to Conte/Nuno. And if he’s not going to have a say in hiring the manager there’s not much point in him staying.

I’d not be against a new DoF with a more attacking philosophy and let him pick the next manager, but that won’t happen - it will be Levy who chooses and his record is abysmal really. Even if we did get a new DoF I very much doubt Levy would be able to leave him to get on with his job without interference.

That for me is why it’s more important to try and get a change in the boardroom than the dugout right now because anyone we hire will have their hands tied. We just ruin them all in the end.

sundanceyid10 said:

The fact you are writing it shows we are becoming aware of Levy’s sleight of hand now. I’m not buying a pen from his cup. He has tried his shit one to many times.

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Mixed metaphors going on here
Sounds like the worst kind of magic trick

Serious question, did anyone of you that say Conte is playing a boring style of football watch him at Inter ? (For example) he play I'm my option a fun kind of football where you counterattack with speed etc.

The problem in spurs is he haven't got the players he wanted and because he know his system work he won't change it to much because our players a shitty. It's all on Levy and Enic for not backing Conte (and all the other managers)

I don't watch or follow our youth teams, but i doubt they all play the same way as our seniors? Like I have said many times, we need to start adopt a philosophy and a way of playing. Look at Barcelona, all the Youth teams play the same way as the seniors so when they are about to break in to the first time they already know how to play. This is something I think we really need to start doing and then appoint managers that share our philosophy. But this won't happen under Levy and Enic...

mr ashley said:

Mixed metaphors going on here
Sounds like the worst kind of magic trick

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Two pens, one cup. Starring D. Levy.

jimbo said:

The issue with Paratici is that he also favours a back three - and is generally a defensive minded DoF. There was talk that one of the reasons we dropped Fonseca when Paratici came in is because he was too attacking. Plus Conte is basically the ideal manager for Paratici.

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Maybe this is what Conte was referring to in his press conference so, we've also got a shit DoF so it's not only his fault we're shit.

But on a serious note, that's the one constant that we've had under Enic/Levy is a DoF, is there any real advantage to it? It's basically just another layer of management to separate the lad at the top from any shit show below.

Spursfan1414 said:

Because he doesn’t have the right players. So the system doesn’t work. So we’re worse than we would be, if he chose to use a different system.

This is literally my complaint. He’s managing the squad he wishes he has, not the one he does, and it isn’t working.

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you have been going on and on and on for 5-10 pages now, banging the conte is not blameless drum.
sure, it can be argued that conte could have done things differently.
but, like many others who are trying to put blame on conte, you are focusing on what he did not do to your liking, as opposed to what realistic alternative did he really have to work with?

to play 4 at the back means to trust 2 of romero, dier, lenglet, sanchez, tanganga to play in a 2. Conte asked for a specialist CB, like a romero, because a SOLID DEFENCE is his hallmark and the base in which to set the foundation upon. He got Lenglet. And Romero only started 3-4 matches so far because of injury. You would trust Dier Sanchez in a back 2 just to allow Emerson to play RB?

Worse, then who would play at LB then? Davies, Sess, Perisic, White. Really? Davies as the LB?

While knowing that the CM you can most likely rely on consistently is PEH? Who is a great organiser / leader but has no pace and gets beaten far too easily?

And then not forgetting about injuries. sure we did sign Bissouma, Richarlison, Perisic and Lenglet + Bentacur, Kulusevski and Romero season prior. How many times have we been able to play Hugo, Romero Dier Lenglet, Doherty PEH Bentacur Perisic Kulusevski Kane Son as the starting XI with Bissouma, Richarlison on the bench?

you mention emerson. wat other option does he have, with doherty injured and spence not up to par? your retort, then play him as RB and play 4 at the back to take advantage of his defensive capabilities and hide his attacking frailties. fair point if considered on its own. but football is XI players. And he has not started Emerson in the league for a while now.

And in case we had short memories, this was first 6 EPL fixtures all with Emerson starting as RWB (unbeaten in all 6)
Saints 4-1 home win
Chelsea 2-2 away draw
Wolves 1-0 home win
Forest 2-0 away win
Spam 1-1 away draw
Fulham 2-1 home win

7th fixture, Perisic at RWB, Emerson enters the fray with us 3-2 up and we go on to win 6-2 at home against Leicester

8th fixture, we then lost the NLD 3-1 away with Emerson red carded, and fans (including myself honestly) seeing the silver lining of us not having to play Emerson for 3 matches.

GPV passes on 6 Oct 2022, with us drawing 0-0 away at Frankfurt on 5 Oct 2022, squad no doubt knowing that he isnt with us.

9th fixture, we carve out a 1-0 away win at Brighton, no mean feat, playing a 3-5-2 for the first time.

We reverted to 3-4-3 and beat a hapless Everton 2-0 at home.

At this point, most would say that we are still doing decent. Performances not the best, but we are up there or there abouts, and just about managing to scrape through with the injuries piling up.

We repeated the 3-5-2 in 11th fixture against Man U, and lost 2-0

The following pre and post World Cup fixtures, coinciding with the freak streak of us conceding first (starting at Man U above), the rise of Newcastle, coupled with Arsenal perched at the top of the table, losing consecutively to top 4 rivals, made things look bleak. Emerson starts and 3-4-3 unless otherwise indicated.
Lost 2-1 away at Newcastle
Drew 1-1 away at Sporting (Doherty)
Won 3-2 fortunately, away at B'mouth (352)
Won 2-1 away at Marseille (Sessegnon)
Lost 2-1 away to a Liverpool in poor form themselves (352)
Lost 2-0 to Forest in EFL cup where we were so poor (352, Doherty)
Beat Leeds 4-3 at home in last EPL game before WC
Drew 2-2 at home to Brentford on Boxing Day, first match post WC (Doherty)
Lost Aston Villa 2-0 home (Doc)
Won Palace 4-0 away (Doc), and Portsmouth 1-0 in 2023 before our 2-0 loss at home NLD (Doherty)

So we lost against Newcastle (away), Man U (away), Liverpool (away), Arsenal (home and away), Villa (home) in the league, and Sporting and Forest 2-0 away in both Champs League and EFL cup.

Only 1 point in 18 against our rivals, dire first half football, newcastle's + man u's + arsenal's form, losing NLD at home and this current frustration with lack of progress on transfers (and Conte's contract / Levy games) are reasons for this very negative, pessimistic sentiment. Worse, we have City to come, twice in quick succession, and soon, Milan. So it's completely understandable why this thread grows by 30-60 pages per day. Coming fortnight could really make or break this season / club (Conte / Kane / Son / Paratici?).

Is there hope that Levy / Board / ENIC / Club / Investors can come to their senses and back the Manager? With players coming back to full fitness, and with a couple of additions, we can really turn this around!

h2005 said:

This is really confusing. Is he going? I seen some ITK saying he’s going to be backed. Do we know where we are when the window closes?

Click to expand...

Still struggling to see him staying tbh. Looking at it from afar, I don't think Levy will be particularly liking the comments from Conte in his press conference today.
Throw in the uncertainty over his contract and Poch sitting there twiddling his thumbs on the side lines, just feels like it's only a bad result or two from Levy pulling the trigger especially after such a poor showing at home in the NLD.

Part of me thinks he may already have done it if Liverpool and Chelsea weren't having the greatest of seasons themselves. However fact is we are sitting 5th and not too far off from 4th place at the half way point and also in the knockout phase of the CL. If Levy was to do it now, I can imagine a lot of people questioning why he is getting rid of a manager who has us in and around a CL place, has the club sitting above both Liverpool and Chelsea (even though it's more to do with their own form) and got us to the knockout stage of the CL. Situation can obviously change very quickly.

Mackan110 said:

Serious question, did anyone of you that say Conte is playing a boring style of football watch him at Inter ? (For example) he play I'm my option a fun kind of football where you counterattack with speed etc.

The problem in spurs is he haven't got the players he wanted and because he know his system work he won't change it to much because our players a shitty. It's all on Levy and Enic for not backing Conte (and all the other managers)

I don't watch or follow our youth teams, but i doubt they all play the same way as our seniors? Like I have said many times, we need to start adopt a philosophy and a way of playing. Look at Barcelona, all the Youth teams play the same way as the seniors so when they are about to break in to the first time they already know how to play. This is something I think we really need to start doing and then appoint managers that share our philosophy. But this won't happen under Levy and Enic...

Click to expand...

No point comparing ourselves to Barca.
Arsenal, Ajax Dortmund maybe.
but let’s be realistic. There are several PL teams with joined up thinking across the age groups so that youth teams feed into the first team, and the hiring of managers provides some level of continuity.
It’s really only us that flip flops between approaches. And why is that? Because we lack the overall vision from the top because we’ve always been looking over the fence at what everyone else has, rather than fashioning our own style.
it all comes down to the ego of one man.

the yid said:

I don't get why Contes even bothering fighting the baord I'd have just walked

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Several million quid, says you wouldn't...

carpediem1906 said:

you have been going on and on and on for 5-10 pages now, banging the conte is not blameless drum.
sure, it can be argued that conte could have done things differently.
but, like many others who are trying to put blame on conte, you are focusing on what he had to do, as opposed to what alternatives does he have?

to play 4 at the back means to trust 2 of romero, dier, lenglet, sanchez, tanganga to play in a 2. Conte asked for a specialist CB, like a romero, because a SOLID DEFENCE is his hallmark and the base in which to set the foundation upon. He got Lenglet. And Romero only started 3-4 matches so far because of injury. You would trust Dier Sanchez in a back 2 just to allow Emerson to play RB?

Worse, then who would play at LB then? Davies, Sess, Perisic, White. Really? Davies as the LB?

While knowing that the CM you can most likely rely on consistently is PEH? Who is a great organiser / leader but has no pace and gets beaten far too easily?

And then not forgetting about injuries. sure we did sign Bissouma, Richarlison, Perisic and Lenglet + Bentacur, Kulusevski and Romero season prior. How many times have we been able to play Hugo, Romero Dier Lenglet, Doherty PEH Bentacur Perisic Kulusevski Kane Son as the starting XI with Bissouma, Richarlison on the bench?

you mention emerson. wat other option does he have, with doherty injured and spence not up to par? your retort, then play him as RB and play 4 at the back to take advantage of his defensive capabilities and hide his attacking frailties. fair point if considered on its own. but football is XI players. And he has not started Emerson in the league for a while now.

And in case we had short memories, this was first 6 EPL fixtures all with Emerson starting as RWB (unbeaten in all 6)
Saints 4-1 home win
Chelsea 2-2 away draw
Wolves 1-0 home win
Forest 2-0 away win
Spam 1-1 away draw
Fulham 2-1 home win

7th fixture, Perisic at RWB, Emerson enters the fray with us 3-2 up and we go on to win 6-2 at home against Leicester

8th fixture, we then lost the NLD 3-1 away with Emerson red carded, and fans (including myself honestly) seeing the silver lining of us not having to play Emerson for 3 matches.

GPV passes on 6 Oct 2022, with us drawing 0-0 away at Frankfurt on 5 Oct 2022, squad no doubt knowing that he isnt with us.

9th fixture, we carve out a 1-0 away win at Brighton, no mean feat, playing a 3-5-2 for the first time.

We reverted to 3-4-3 and beat a hapless Everton 2-0 at home.

At this point, most would say that we are still doing decent. Performances not the best, but we are up there or there abouts, and just about managing to scrape through with the injuries piling up.

We repeated the 3-5-2 in 11th fixture against Man U, and lost 2-0

The following pre and post World Cup fixtures, coinciding with the freak streak of us conceding first (starting at Man U above), the rise of Newcastle, coupled with Arsenal perched at the top of the table, losing consecutively to top 4 rivals, made things look bleak. Emerson starts and 3-4-3 unless otherwise indicated.
Lost 2-1 away at Newcastle
Drew 1-1 away at Sporting (Doherty)
Won 3-2 fortunately, away at B'mouth (352)
Won 2-1 away at Marseille (Sessegnon)
Lost 2-1 away to a Liverpool in poor form themselves (352)
Lost 2-0 to Forest in EFL cup where we were so poor (352, Doherty)
Beat Leeds 4-3 at home in last EPL game before WC
Drew 2-2 at home to Brentford on Boxing Day, first match post WC (Doherty)
Beat Aston Villa 2-0 home (Doc) and Palace 4-0 away (Doc), and Portsmouth 1-0 in 2023 before our 2-0 loss at home NLD (Doherty)

So we lost against Newcastle (away), Man U (away), Liverpool (away), Arsenal (home and away) in the league, and Sporting and Forest 2-0 away in both Champs League and EFL cup.

Only 1 point in 18 against our rivals, dire first half football, newcastle's + man u's + arsenal's form, losing NLD at home and this current frustration with lack of progress on transfers (and Conte's contract / Levy games) are reasons for this very negative, pessimistic sentiment. Worse, we have City to come, twice in quick succession, and soon, Milan. So it's completely understand why this thread grows by 30-60 pages per day. Coming fortnight could really make or break this season / club (Conte / Kane).

Is there hope that Levy / Board / ENIC / Club / Investors can come to their senses and back the Manager? With players coming back to full fitness, and with a couple of additions, we can really turn this around!

Click to expand...

As I’ve said before, we need to realise what this squad can’t do to best understand why we are playing the current system.
There’s so many who can’t be trusted in any formation

carpediem1906 said:

you have been going on and on and on for 5-10 pages now, banging the conte is not blameless drum.
sure, it can be argued that conte could have done things differently.
but, like many others who are trying to put blame on conte, you are focusing on what he had to do, as opposed to what alternatives does he have?

to play 4 at the back means to trust 2 of romero, dier, lenglet, sanchez, tanganga to play in a 2. Conte asked for a specialist CB, like a romero, because a SOLID DEFENCE is his hallmark and the base in which to set the foundation upon. He got Lenglet. And Romero only started 3-4 matches so far because of injury. You would trust Dier Sanchez in a back 2 just to allow Emerson to play RB?

Worse, then who would play at LB then? Davies, Sess, Perisic, White. Really? Davies as the LB?

While knowing that the CM you can most likely rely on consistently is PEH? Who is a great organiser / leader but has no pace and gets beaten far too easily?

And then not forgetting about injuries. sure we did sign Bissouma, Richarlison, Perisic and Lenglet + Bentacur, Kulusevski and Romero season prior. How many times have we been able to play Hugo, Romero Dier Lenglet, Doherty PEH Bentacur Perisic Kulusevski Kane Son as the starting XI with Bissouma, Richarlison on the bench?

you mention emerson. wat other option does he have, with doherty injured and spence not up to par? your retort, then play him as RB and play 4 at the back to take advantage of his defensive capabilities and hide his attacking frailties. fair point if considered on its own. but football is XI players. And he has not started Emerson in the league for a while now.

And in case we had short memories, this was first 6 EPL fixtures all with Emerson starting as RWB (unbeaten in all 6)
Saints 4-1 home win
Chelsea 2-2 away draw
Wolves 1-0 home win
Forest 2-0 away win
Spam 1-1 away draw
Fulham 2-1 home win

7th fixture, Perisic at RWB, Emerson enters the fray with us 3-2 up and we go on to win 6-2 at home against Leicester

8th fixture, we then lost the NLD 3-1 away with Emerson red carded, and fans (including myself honestly) seeing the silver lining of us not having to play Emerson for 3 matches.

GPV passes on 6 Oct 2022, with us drawing 0-0 away at Frankfurt on 5 Oct 2022, squad no doubt knowing that he isnt with us.

9th fixture, we carve out a 1-0 away win at Brighton, no mean feat, playing a 3-5-2 for the first time.

We reverted to 3-4-3 and beat a hapless Everton 2-0 at home.

At this point, most would say that we are still doing decent. Performances not the best, but we are up there or there abouts, and just about managing to scrape through with the injuries piling up.

We repeated the 3-5-2 in 11th fixture against Man U, and lost 2-0

The following pre and post World Cup fixtures, coinciding with the freak streak of us conceding first (starting at Man U above), the rise of Newcastle, coupled with Arsenal perched at the top of the table, losing consecutively to top 4 rivals, made things look bleak. Emerson starts and 3-4-3 unless otherwise indicated.
Lost 2-1 away at Newcastle
Drew 1-1 away at Sporting (Doherty)
Won 3-2 fortunately, away at B'mouth (352)
Won 2-1 away at Marseille (Sessegnon)
Lost 2-1 away to a Liverpool in poor form themselves (352)
Lost 2-0 to Forest in EFL cup where we were so poor (352, Doherty)
Beat Leeds 4-3 at home in last EPL game before WC
Drew 2-2 at home to Brentford on Boxing Day, first match post WC (Doherty)
Beat Aston Villa 2-0 home (Doc) and Palace 4-0 away (Doc), and Portsmouth 1-0 in 2023 before our 2-0 loss at home NLD (Doherty)

So we lost against Newcastle (away), Man U (away), Liverpool (away), Arsenal (home and away) in the league, and Sporting and Forest 2-0 away in both Champs League and EFL cup.

Only 1 point in 18 against our rivals, dire first half football, newcastle's + man u's + arsenal's form, losing NLD at home and this current frustration with lack of progress on transfers (and Conte's contract / Levy games) are reasons for this very negative, pessimistic sentiment. Worse, we have City to come, twice in quick succession, and soon, Milan. So it's completely understand why this thread grows by 30-60 pages per day. Coming fortnight could really make or break this season / club (Conte / Kane / Son / Paratici?).

Is there hope that Levy / Board / ENIC / Club / Investors can come to their senses and back the Manager? With players coming back to full fitness, and with a couple of additions, we can really turn this around!

Click to expand...

FWIW We lost that Villa game. It was an awful performance, possibly the one that really started the discontent.

Cel said:

FWIW We lost that Villa game. It was an awful performance, possibly the one that really started the discontent.

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Eek, apologies. Edited.

Yes, possibly. The frustration was simmering...

Possible also that they're having their own new manager bounce

CantSmileWithoutYou said:

Several million quid, says you wouldn't...

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I'd have already earnt £19m so I would have!