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"Man Utd and Liverpool driving 'Project Big Picture' - football’s biggest shake-up in a generation"

King of Otters

King of Otters

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
10,751
36,094
It’s basically a not so covert big 6 takeover. Shamelessly trying to exploit the current financial uncertainty to concentrate all power in the hands of the most powerful clubs, who will rule in their interests and their interests only after the initial payout.

No surprise that it’s two yank run clubs taking the lead on this. Like they give a single solitary shit about what’s best for English football.
 
teok

teok

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2011
10,880
33,751
Utd and liverpool may be powerful but they still only have one vote each.
 
rez9000

rez9000

Any point?
Feb 8, 2007
11,942
21,098
Hazelton said:
Had to laugh at West Ham being referred to as "ever present" when they've been in and out more times than the Dildo Brothers' best-seller.
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The only reason that's in there is because the likes of West Ham and Aston Villa have been in the Premier League longer than Man City (in terms of number of seasons spent, not contiguous time). If they were excluded, they'd make a massive stink about "we've got more PL experience than Man City". It's the only way to get Man City's blood money into the mix without objections.

Why nine "ever-presents"? What's so special about the nine? Is it because it's half of 18? And why 18 clubs? Why not 16, or 22, or 12, or 40? It's complete crap.
 
C0YS

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
rez9000 said:
The only reason that's in there is because the likes of West Ham and Aston Villa have been in the Premier League longer than Man City (in terms of number of seasons spent, not contiguous time). If they were excluded, they'd make a massive stink about "we've got more PL experience than Man City". It's the only way to get Man City's blood money into the mix without objections.

Why nine "ever-presents"? What's so special about the nine? Is it because it's half of 18? And why 18 clubs? Why not 16, or 22, or 12, or 40? It's complete crap.
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Yep. Worth noting that even though power in theory is given equally to all 9 clubs, you only need 6 votes to carry through any policy. That's, quite clearly, not a coincidence.
 
D

DCSPUR

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2005
3,918
5,415
it's utter bullshit. Give out a load of carrots now while people and clubs are suffering. And in return capture the long term advantage which is to effectively allow the big 6 to dictate everything that happens with the game in this country. Which is a continuing move towards TV and cross border leagues at the expense of everyone else. Incredibly undemocratic and illiberal. Sadly suspect that we are not just a part of it for defensive purposes but gleefully so. Valuation of the club would go up dramatically under such circumstances. Unfortunately the UK gov is utterly ineffectual and probably incapable of responding effectively.
 
Saoirse

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,165
15,644
C0YS said:
Yep. Worth noting that even though power in theory is given equally to all 9 clubs, you only need 6 votes to carry through any policy. That's, quite clearly, not a coincidence.
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It also happens to be the same 2/3rds margin needed at present which is a good smokescreen. This is a very well thought through plan
 
W

wakefieldyid

SC Supporter
Jun 13, 2006
1,560
1,591
C0YS said:
This is terrible. Let's not pretend it is anything more than a power grab by the big 6, who will now be able to push through policies that would entrench them to be permanently big and undermine any sense of competition that previously existed making a sham of the competition. The big clubs will be allowed to bully the rest of the league and bellow to bend to their interests, it will literally give them the ability to block things like takeovers or any other thing that might challenge the status quo. In other words, it will kill any sense that if you run the club well enough and get things together you might be able to achieve long term success.


The loan rules will allow for the big clubs to have massive teams and pool talent, it will weaken the competition and the ability of other clubs to create a team that can challenge. While profitable preseason tournaments would replace cup competitions like the league cup, which while considered an inconvenience to big clubs is one of the only competitions left that allows other clubs to dream.

This is a massive exploitation of the COVID situation and the problems in the EFL created by such. It is an attempt to use this crisis as an excuse to conduct a power grab and force lower league teams to sell their soul to the devil to stay afloat. Maybe I'm exaggerating a little, but while this might benefit us this would be terrible for English football as a whole, and risks damaging the little soul left in football.
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As it's written, it's a massive power grab by the Americans, with an expectation that enough of the PL's other "big clubs" will buy into their proposals. Other than that, you're absolutely bang-on.
 
Tucker

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,432
147,217
rez9000 said:
The only reason that's in there is because the likes of West Ham and Aston Villa have been in the Premier League longer than Man City (in terms of number of seasons spent, not contiguous time). If they were excluded, they'd make a massive stink about "we've got more PL experience than Man City". It's the only way to get Man City's blood money into the mix without objections.

Why nine "ever-presents"? What's so special about the nine? Is it because it's half of 18? And why 18 clubs? Why not 16, or 22, or 12, or 40? It's complete crap.
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I would imagine the 18 clubs thing is to cut down on fixtures in order to allow more room for an expanded champions league. I’m not too bothered about that, or the other suggestions. It’s the concentration of power at the top of the game that I don’t like. If all 18 prem clubs have an equal vote then I think the rest of it is pretty sensible. Especially getting rid of the community shield, and the European teams not entering the league cup.

edit I’m not keen on the loan rules either. Personally don’t think prem clubs should be allowed to loan to each other.
 
Ickle73

Ickle73

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2009
138
1,208
Tucker said:
I would imagine the 18 clubs thing is to cut down on fixtures in order to allow more room for an expanded champions league. I’m not too bothered about that, or the other suggestions. It’s the concentration of power at the top of the game that I don’t like. If all 18 prem clubs have an equal vote then I think the rest of it is pretty sensible. Especially getting rid of the community shield, and the European teams not entering the league cup.

edit I’m not keen on the loan rules either. Personally don’t think prem clubs should be allowed to loan to each other.
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Yep that's pretty much my view on it as well. Reducing the league to 18 and no league cup is something I think they should of done a long time ago. However, not to make more room for champions league games but to enable the Premier league to have a winter break and reduce the number of games players have to play.
 
P

popstar7

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2012
3,036
9,367
Would the veto on new owners end up locking in the current owners permanently? An understanding between the big six or nine that they vote down any attempt to break into what would be, in effect, a cartel? They control supply (of matches), prices through negotiations with TV and access to the market?
 
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McFlash

McFlash

In the corner, eating crayons.
Oct 19, 2005
12,937
46,311
There are some enticing proposals and some reasonably good ideas but, handing all that power to "the big six" stinks of elitism.
Especially coming from those two fucking clubs!
 
H

Hotspur33

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2014
1,608
3,913
Everything seems great with the huge exception to 9 teams running the league.
Maybe the FA could take this idea and implement it themselves, but keep the 1 club=1 vote rule.
 
C0YS

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
Ickle73 said:
Yep that's pretty much my view on it as well. Reducing the league to 18 and no league cup is something I think they should of done a long time ago. However, not to make more room for champions league games but to enable the Premier league to have a winter break and reduce the number of games players have to play.
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I mean we could have a winter break anyway, the only reason we don't is through tradition not fixture congestion. I know we have two cups instead of one. But the domestic cups abroad tend to involve more games (copa del Rey is two legged for example). The PL currently plays a maximum of 2 extra games compared to La liga (not including replays). Getting rid of two legged ties in the League cup and replays in the FA cup, as well as possibly allowing clubs who qualified into Europe joining the FA cup at later rounds are all plausible solutions to the issue.

The suggested solution would result in English clubs playing considerably less games than there counterparts in other countries, well with the exception of Germany. Similarly getting rid of the Community shield in particular is something that would put the PL in a very unique position of not having one. But all of this as laid out is really as an excuse to start the season later and expand preseason to make money from preseason friendlies in Asia and America. Also the idea of having a PL tournament every 5 years. The idea here is absolutely to have a tournament in Asia or something and make a load of money from it, and as an idea it only works after game 39 was unable to gain support.
 
DFF

DFF

YOLO, Daniel
May 17, 2005
14,226
6,091
Even the headline proposal is a naked power grab. The real reason to give away 25% of PL revenue (not club revenue) is to further hamstring the non-top 6 teams who rely much more on PL TV money as a proportion of their revenues.
 
C0YS

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
Tucker said:
The Premier League have responded negatively to this.

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Good.

And the statement actually hints towards a very good point. The PL is successful because of it's structure, because of promotion and relegation and it's competitiveness.

Football leadership in the last few years risks having an Icarus moment. Ideas such as a European super league and to a lesser extent the expansion of international competitions, the expansion and development of more European competitions are all cash grabbing ideas that have the potential of damaging football irreversibly.

A European super league may sound good in principle, but without promotion and relegation you get rid of the jeopardy and remove what makes football so fascinating, similarly match going fans will end up finding it harder and more expensive to follow the game and the whole ecosystem of match goers risks collapsing in on itself.

Similarly, what makes European competitions special is that they are the pinnacle of football. You have to be good just to get there, same with the world cup and, to a lesser degree, the Euros. If you over saturate these things you just end up having more games which don't really matter or inspire interest. More European games = more money for now. But I believe there is a tipping point where it just stops being special, and instead becomes tedium and largely quite meaningless.

The current attempt to grab more money out of football is done without really trying to understand the mechanics of what makes football such an exciting spectacle. There will reach a point where too much is taken out and it'll all come crashing down.
 
J

John48

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2015
2,249
3,143
No surprise it's US led, wasn't it one of them that suggested the lower leagues should contain the Prem league B teams?

Next step no relegation for those with B teams?
 
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