ENIC...

Dougal said:

If they win it will be the icing on the cake.

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I'm really struggling to see anything but an arsenal win tbh. I'm not trying to be defeatist or have a moan, Im just not sure what he will change to improve on recent performances.

Matthew said:

amazon probably paid for the banner

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Probably sold it too.

Zero sum game!

JUSTINSIGNAL said:

The trophy argument is a funny one because I can definitely think of good opportunities we’ve had that have been wasted by bad tactical or player mistakes.

- losing the league cup final to Blackburn under Hoddle when we were clearly the better side.
- Being beaten by Portsmouth in the FA cup semi final when we were far superior and would have then just had to beat Cardiff in the final.
- Being beaten by Chelsea in the FA Cup semi after dominating them but every shot of theirs went in and Poch made the weird decision of playing Son at wing back.
- Dominating Man U in a FA Cup semi only to lose focus in the second half and lose 2-1 from being 1-0 up.

In all these incidents we were the better side both on the day and in paper but lapses of concentration or tactical failings meant we didn’t win the trophy or progress to a final which would have given a good opportunity to win a trophy. Can these failings really be blamed on the ownership?

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we would have faced Chelsea had we got there. Pompey beat Cardiff In the final the year before.

WinksyBoy said:

Anyone else think that this is going to make the club (fans not just ENIC) look like idiots?




Going to be a lot of Chavs, goons, spammers, etc laughing.

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Im kinda surprised levy didn't try and put a stop to this somehow through the dark arts. I'm sure it won't get in the Amazon doc tho, Levy will no doubt have some say on the final cut.

kendoddsdadsdogsdead said:

Yeah we’re acting like the bullied kid who doesn’t want to draw attention to himself so keeps quiet in the corner hoping the bigger kids don’t notice. Who gives a fuck, puff your chest out. if you’re not happy with the motives of ENIC why can’t you express it. Not buying tickets would hurt more though.

If Levy is as good a chairman as some say, he’ll brush this off and won’t mind people expressing their feelings. My feeling is I don’t think this is about lack of success/trophies, it’s about the intent of their ownership.

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Couldn’t agree with that more

C0YS said:

No mate, no fan deserves trophies just for being a fan.

This is the kind of logic that makes people hate Tottenham really. Like think of Newcastle fans, which generated more revenue than we did when ENIC took over. Newcastle last won a major trophy in 1969, A Everton Fan in 1995 and I could go on.

There is nothing particularly long suffering about being a Spurs fan, and you say it like supporting in our thousands has been a chore, but we have it good. We are not 30,000 Sunderland or Leeds fans watching some terrible stuff in league 1. No, we have been watching European football, some really great games and some magical moments that the vast majority of teams will kill for. Yes I'm desperate to win something, we have been close on numerous occasions, I think while ENIC can take some portion of the blame, I think we have still had the teams and opportunities to win something, just didn't quite make it. What Bill Nicholson said is true

“It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. At Spurs we set our sights very high, so that even failure will have in it an echo of glory.”

But we have had a pretty nice echo these last few years.

It's overachievment because our club is not popular enough, and didn't have the infrastructure to produce enough revenue. This is changing. The new stadium is not the answer to all our prayers, it is just the only way, and I mean only way, to compete long term with the other top 6. This where great strides have been taken. We can't do a Man City, who just bribe their way into commercial popularity and sponsor ourselves with a dodgy deal, Chelsea did similar, bribe themselves to popularity etc.

But ENIC have dealt with that side very well. You can't really criticise there. Especially considering our financial equivalents at the time were Newcastle, Leeds and Aston Villa, who have all done so well.

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Great post.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about Levy and ENIC, and regardless of which side of the argument is more right, I think far too many fans these days have lost sight of what it is to be a fan. Hopes are no longer just hopes. They have become expectations. It seems to be a sadly inevitable consequence of a world in which solutions are now available in an instant, at the click of a button. Waiting, and patience, have become things of the past. We have all become conditioned to wanting everything; and wanting it right now.

Worse still, failure is felt more keenly and hurts for longer because we have our failures, and others' successes, thrust in our faces 24/7. It's not just at work or down the pub that we have to suck up the banter, as used to be the case. It's now taunting us every waking hour from the phones, tablets and desktop screens that corner our attention.

So your post is a much needed reminder that, despite the justifiable frustration at the failure to win a trophy, we really haven't had that bad a time of it at all over the past decade. I prefer to be thankful for what we have had than be angry about what we haven't.

kendoddsdadsdogsdead said:

Yeah we’re acting like the bullied kid who doesn’t want to draw attention to himself so keeps quiet in the corner hoping the bigger kids don’t notice. Who gives a fuck, puff your chest out. if you’re not happy with the motives of ENIC why can’t you express it. Not buying tickets would hurt more though.

If Levy is as good a chairman as some say, he’ll brush this off and won’t mind people expressing their feelings. My feeling is I don’t think this is about lack of success/trophies, it’s about the intent of their ownership.

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Agreed. Fans at big clubs don't put up with this shit, nothing wrong at all about making your feelings known at all. I also don't care about what other fans think

SecretLemonadeDrinker said:

Great post.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about Levy and ENIC, and regardless of which side of the argument is more right, I think far too many fans these days have lost sight of what it is to be a fan. Hopes are no longer just hopes. They have become expectations. It seems to be a sadly inevitable consequence of a world in which solutions are now available in an instant, at the click of a button. Waiting, and patience, have become things of the past. We have all become conditioned to wanting everything; and wanting it right now.

Worse still, failure is felt more keenly and hurts for longer because we have our failures, and others' successes, thrust in our faces 24/7. It's not just at work or down the pub that we have to suck up the banter, as used to be the case. It's now taunting us every waking hour from the phones, tablets and desktop screens that corner our attention.

So your post is a much needed reminder that, despite the justifiable frustration at the failure to win a trophy, we really haven't had that bad a time of it at all over the past decade. I prefer to be thankful for what we have had than be angry about what we haven't.

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Good post. I think that more than money, I’d feel better knowing that DL has some sort of plan/vision for the next few years. Obviously off the field and subject to stadiums fully reopening, we know that we have NFL, concerts, cheese tastings, the naming rights (hopefully) and there will be extra revenue from match day but on the field, is DL happy to hand responsibility for the rebuild to Jose?

SecretLemonadeDrinker said:

Great post.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about Levy and ENIC, and regardless of which side of the argument is more right, I think far too many fans these days have lost sight of what it is to be a fan. Hopes are no longer just hopes. They have become expectations. It seems to be a sadly inevitable consequence of a world in which solutions are now available in an instant, at the click of a button. Waiting, and patience, have become things of the past. We have all become conditioned to wanting everything; and wanting it right now.

Worse still, failure is felt more keenly and hurts for longer because we have our failures, and others' successes, thrust in our faces 24/7. It's not just at work or down the pub that we have to suck up the banter, as used to be the case. It's now taunting us every waking hour from the phones, tablets and desktop screens that corner our attention.

So your post is a much needed reminder that, despite the justifiable frustration at the failure to win a trophy, we really haven't had that bad a time of it at all over the past decade. I prefer to be thankful for what we have had than be angry about what we haven't.

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All valid points but you can't charge the most expensive season tickets in football history and not deliver on the pitch. We will support whatever cos we've been brought up with the club but we shouldn't have to pay more than anyone while winning nothing

I don't think Levy's stock has suddenly fallen rock bottom. A few months ago he was being praised to the rafters over the new stadium. It is not his fault it is empty.

This is all about getting Mourinho out imo. The hope being if Levy is under pressure, he'll pull the trigger.
This is really embarrassing as Mourinho has only been here 5 mins.

Who's up for hiring a plane with an ENIC Out Out banner?

People behaving as if we do not have some editorial control over the documentary. Levy is not that naive.

Ghost Hardware said:

Im kinda surprised levy didn't try and put a stop to this somehow through the dark arts. I'm sure it won't get in the Amazon doc tho, Levy will no doubt have some say on the final cut.

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It wont get into the Amazon cut but it will likely get on the tv broadcast

Makes the fans look like clowns, it's not Levy's fault the players are playing like dickheads and it's not Mourinho or Poch's fault either. Obviously not signing anyone for two windows was a terrible mistake but overall ENIC have been good for spurs

Spurs1961 said:

Makes the fans look like clowns, it's not Levy's fault the players are playing like dickheads and it's not Mourinho or Poch's fault either. Obviously not signing anyone for two windows was a terrible mistake but overall ENIC have been good for spurs

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A terrible mistake with consequences that everyone predicted

WinksyBoy said:

Anyone else think that this is going to make the club (fans not just ENIC) look like idiots?




Going to be a lot of Chavs, goons, spammers, etc laughing.

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I imagine that guy is used to people laughing at him, he thinks Covid was started by Bill Gates because there are too many people in the world.

You know what? I think if Levy had given the club a push when we needed it (and we all know when that was) I actually think the slippery **** would still enjoy the over the top adulation he has always been given.

I'm not as fussed about winning things although that would obviously be nice, but when you feel there's no ambition for the club on the pitch, then that robs us of one of the most exciting aspects a fan feels going into a new season. Hope.

Look at the state we're in. I mean us fans. Anyone excited about the prospect of our next game? Next season? How you feeling about the club right now? Just how sick do you feel about what might have been and where we're heading.

Look at us, look at where our dear leader has led us.

Fuck him. Fuck him with the biggest courgette you can find. And then ram a cactus up his japs. Some fucking leader he is.

Gertcha

Archibald&Crooks said:

You know what? I think if Levy had given the club a push when we needed it (and we all know when that was) I actually think the slippery **** would still enjoy the over the top adulation he has always been given.

I'm not as fussed about winning things although that would obviously be nice, but when you feel there's no ambition for the club on the pitch, then that robs us of one of the most exciting aspects a fan feels going into a new season. Hope.

Look at the state we're in. I mean us fans. Anyone excited about the prospect of our next game? Next season? How you feeling about the club right now? Just how sick do you feel about what might have been and where we're heading.

Look at us, look at where our dear leader has led us.

Fuck him. Fuck him with the biggest courgette you can find. And then ram a cactus up his japs. Some fucking leader he is.

Gertcha

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There’s a lot of ambiguity in this post. Just say what you mean

fishhhandaricecake said:

Those of us who are proper fans have followed the club through thick and thin are fully aware that our constant failings on the pitch are due to ENIC/LEVY.

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To be fair, mate, you can only really speak for yourself. There are doubtless a significant proportion (and possibly even a majority?) of "proper" fans (whatever a "proper" fan might be) who have followed Spurs through thick and thin who don't share your reading of the situation - or, at least, might only do so in a more nuanced manner. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't see the wide array of opinions that we see in this very thread.

And we’ve only had some consistent success over the past 10 years of so because other top clubs have been a mess.

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So what you're saying is that ENIC are damned even if they do? I don't understand that way of thinking. Any power shift has to involve the weakening of one party as much as it does the strengthening of another. The point is that it was Spurs who were positioned to take advantage of any opening. It might just as easily have been Aston Villa, Leeds, Everton or Newcastle. But it was Spurs. That should be acknowledged, not belittled.

•Hiring Hoddle
•Awful scouting and football set-up for many years
•Not investing enough in the team as net spend being £0 was priority n.o1
•When we did generally spend we royally messed it up because the scouting and football set-up is poor and Levy is too involved in it, here are a number of players we’ve spunked money on with no plan:
-Ndombele
-Sissoko
-Soldado
-Lamela
-Aurier
-Bent
-Janssen
-Paulinho
-Rebrov
-Njie
-Capoue
-Nkoudu
-Chriches
-Postiga
-Andy Reid
-Wimmer
-Giovanni Dos Santos
-Stambouli
-Rasiak

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Just a few points of order re the above list:

- Rebrov was signed in 2000, before ENIC took over.
- Soldado, Lamela, Paulinho, Capoue and Chiriches were signed by Baldini under the kind of DoF structure that many on here (including me) want to see reimplemented at Spurs.
- Ndombele was our manager's primary target.
- Andy Reid didn't work out but Michael Dawson certainly did. An overall win for us on that deal.
- Wimmer, Nkoudou, Njie, Dos Santos - all failures, granted. But all were of a type of cheap, opportunistic signings (that are / were a feature of club transfer policy) that also includes: Bale, Alli, Walker, Dier and Lennon. With this kind of signing, I'm happy to take the rough with the smooth.

•We’ve heard from virtually all our managers that they very rarely get their top targets and this not just because we don’t pay the pages or aren’t an attractive enough club it’s because Levy is more concerned with ‘getting a deal’ and buying 3 Nike’s than one Mane.

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I would say that the vast majority of managers in world football fail to land their top targets the vast majority of the time. Unless you are the Real Madrid manager or unless you are always targeting under the radar (or just crap!) players, it is inevitable. Guaranteed that fans of most other clubs are also forever complaining about failing to land their top targets.

•He pisses off many other clubs and chairmen and women to the point they don’t want to deal with us anymore, how can that be a healthy way to negotiate

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Is that really true, though, or is it just the kind of noise that we often hear from gobshite chairmen of other clubs who still happily deal with Levy a year or two later?

•We time and again take far too long to get deals over the line which inveriably fall apart last minute for one of 100 excuses “oh we tried” and so we’ve started many a season with squad discontent and the manager not being able to have a proper pre season and plan and prepare properly

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Fans of almost all other clubs have precisely the same complaints. No doubt that Levy does too often dither and haggle to the club's detriment but the fact that all clubs experience such frustrations shows that there must be other factors at play - namely, the selling clubs, agents and the players themselves.

-Self imposed transfer ban

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As you well know, I'm sure, it wasn't a "self imposed ban". It wasn't a deliberate policy. Rather, it was a failure to land the manager's primary targets coupled with the manager's understandable refusal to accept any further consolation signings.

Taking 20 years to build a stadium that was late and way over budget

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It took 11 years from first announcement of the desire to build a new stadium to completion. That's not far off par for the course for such a huge, costly and complex project. Arsenal was similar. And Wembley. Liverpool abandoned plans for theirs. Everton started at much the same time as Spurs and are still at least four years away. Chelsea have been trying since Abramovich took over and have still to add a single seat.

As to the stadium being completed late, you might just as well blame Levy for coronavirus as blame him for a subcontractor making an almighty mess of the cabling and safety and security systems! And "way over budget"? It seems clear that, at some point during the project, a deliberate decision was taken to deliver a far higher spec in order to both future proof the stadium and to radically transform its income generation capability. In which case, the budget was massively revised upwards. That's not the same thing at all as going "way over budget".

-Sacking Martin Jol mid game

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He didn't sack Jol mid game. The news merely leaked mid game.

Santini (then got lucky with Jol who was an assistant manager who fell into the job and did very well)

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I am perfectly convinced that that was always Arnesen's and Levy's plan. No reason otherwise why Jol would have taken the job as Santini's assistant.

Ultimately football is about enjoyment and success and club culture ok. Whilst we are not the most successful club ever and sure times have changed during the PL, we had before levy took over won 8 FA cups, first side ever to do the double, first side to win a European trophy and have 2 or 3 if I’m not mistaken and have only not been in the top flight for one or mabye two periods in our entire history, we are no mugs. Our club was build on the Billy Nicks and Danny Blanchflowers and Dave Mckays, we have virtually always played entertaining football and we’ve done things the right way, Levy cares only about profit which has been to a detriment on the pitch and has held us back from winning things time and time again with no clear or successful plan for the football side of the business. Added to that he treats a lot of our managers and players like shit and has no regard for our fans with the prices and decisions he’s made.

And to top it all off, he fires our most loved and successful manager in recent times and replaces him with an Ex-Chelsea over the hill manager who plays the most dire horrible football many of us have ever witnessed. We might have a great new stadium and training ground but at what cost? ENIC/LEVY have taken the heart and soul of the club and supporting Spurs is predictable with the same rinse and repeat pattern under Levy and right now it’s just not enjoyable.

Thanks for the stadium and training ground and for the Poch years but it’s time now to sell up to owners who care about the fans and who want and have a plan for success ON the pitch.

COYS

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Levy has certainly made many howlers and he has incredibly frustrating blind spots. And maybe we never will be able to go to the next level with him at the helm. I couldn't say. He certainly needs to take a step back from football operations, hire a top quality DoF and implement a consistent, intelligent strategy for achieving success on the pitch.

But for all that, I think he does care about the club. As deeply as any of us. It's just that he doesn't have the luxury of thinking like fans. He has to make hard decisions. He gets many of them wrong, agreed. And, boy, I wish he would learn lessons from his mistakes instead of repeating them over and over. But to suggest that he doesn't care; that he doesn't crave success every bit as much as we do; that he isn't acutely aware of our history and philosophy? I don't buy it.

whitesocks said:

I don't think Levy's stock has suddenly fallen rock bottom. A few months ago he was being praised to the rafters over the new stadium. It is not his fault it is empty.

This is all about getting Mourinho out imo. The hope being if Levy is under pressure, he'll pull the trigger.
This is really embarrassing as Mourinho has only been here 5 mins.

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Well neither will be going anywhere regardless of any fan protests.

No club in the PL's fans hold any sway at all over the owners now. None of them. Fan protests are literally pointless.