ENIC...

[Deleted member 27995]

You know what? I think if Levy had given the club a push when we needed it (and we all know when that was) I actually think the slippery **** would still enjoy the over the top adulation he has always been given.

I'm not as fussed about winning things although that would obviously be nice, but when you feel there's no ambition for the club on the pitch, then that robs us of one of the most exciting aspects a fan feels going into a new season. Hope.

Look at the state we're in. I mean us fans. Anyone excited about the prospect of our next game? Next season? How you feeling about the club right now? Just how sick do you feel about what might have been and where we're heading.

Look at us, look at where our dear leader has led us.

Fuck him. Fuck him with the biggest courgette you can find. And then ram a cactus up his japs. Some fucking leader he is.

Gertcha

 

[riggi]

Maybe people will laugh or find it embarrassing but at least they’re doing something for something they care about.

Ye I will add, although I don’t think it will change much, I don’t see an issue with it. It’s pretty low down on the list of things to be embarrassed by at spurs tbh.

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

A few people have hit on the crux of it, quite a few times now we’ve had an opportunity to win something but never pushed the boat out to do what was needed to get us over the line, we’ve only really spent big on the team when our backs been against the wall and we were struggling, so even our net expenditure figures as bad as they are paint ENIC in a better light than they really should.

How can you get excited under ENIC knowing the next time we have an opportunity to win something our answer will be the next Saha or the next Njie or no-one at all! It’s the main reason we haven’t been and never will be winners under ENIC (not the 13 managers) the ambition just isn’t there. Their desire is obvious, to maximize profit with minimum risk. Transfers as we’ve seen over the years are very risky but as Liverpool have shown get the right one’s at premium can pay dividends.

 

[LeParisien]

To be fair Levy bangs on about being a guardian of the club and being responsible. So how is taking yourself a nice fat bonus part of being a responsible guardian? Bit hypocritical isn't it? And then giving a present to Scudamore too? Yet he'll baulk at signing Jack Grealish for an extra few million.

He successfully gave the club the best training and stadium facilities in the world this decade. That’s our club - Tottenham hotspur. That’s totally on Levy and he deserves to be rewarded for it. Far less than mourinho or Alli is rewarded, by the way, despite having made a far bigger positive impact on the club. And building those things absolutely is responsible guardianship.

This fixation on his pay (modest for a football club) is such a red herring.

View attachment 70006

Says it all really, about ENIC.

It doesn’t. It says it all about Stoke, Everton, Bournemouth and Palace. It says it all about Wolves, West Ham, Brighton and Fulham. It says it all about Villa, West Brom, QPR and Sunderland.

Where are those clubs now? How much have they accomplished over the past decade? Why won’t that shake you from the false notion that net transfer spends = success. The evidence isn’t right there in front of you !!

Again, I couldn’t care less about how it might make our fans come across. Those of us who are proper fans have followed the club through thick and thin are fully aware that our constant failings on the pitch are due to ENIC/LEVY.

Yes the stadium and training ground are great, no-one is saying they’re not but football is not just about having a nice stadium and training ground it’s about winning ON the pitch, the way the football side of the club has been run is simply not good enough and so many of ENIC’s actions of the years have proved their n.o1 priority is making profit from owning us, it’s literally what their company stands for.

Trust me, this is not about ‘having a slump’ this is an accumulation of things over many years, the frustration has been building and now a large majority of Spurs fans are rightly angry at this and the lack of a clear strategy on the pitch and any care and regard for the fans.

You say he’s got far more right than he’s got wrong, sorry but he really hasn’t. And we’ve only had some consistent success over the past 10 years of so because other top clubs have been a mess, many of whom are now very strong again.

Apart from the training ground, stadium and hiring Poch (but not properly backing him), here are some things your glorified Lord Levy has got wrong just to spell it out for you:

•Hiring Hoddle
•Awful scouting and football set-up for many years
•Not investing enough in the team as net spend being £0 was priority n.o1
•When we did generally spend we royally messed it up because the scouting and football set-up is poor and Levy is too involved in it, here are a number of players we’ve spunked money on with no plan:
-Ndombele
-Sissoko
-Soldado
-Lamela
-Aurier
-Bent
-Janssen
-Paulinho
-Rebrov
-Njie
-Capoue
-Nkoudu
-Chriches
-Postiga
-Andy Reid
-Wimmer
-Giovanni Dos Santos
-Stambouli
-Rasiak

•We’ve heard from virtually all our managers that they very rarely get their top targets and this not just because we don’t pay the pages or aren’t an attractive enough club it’s because Levy is more concerned with ‘getting a deal’ and buying 3 Nike’s than one Mane.
•He pisses off many other clubs and chairmen and women to the point they don’t want to deal with us anymore, how can that be a healthy way to negotiate
•We buy shit players with no plan as to how they fit a system and then hold onto players far too long because levy wants ridiculous prices for them
•We time and again take far too long to get deals over the line which inveriably fall apart last minute for one of 100 excuses “oh we tried” and so we’ve started many a season with squad discontent and the manager not being able to have a proper pre season and plan and prepare properly
•His general actions have shown time and time again that he doesn’t care for the fans or staff at the club, he care about profit, this is not how I want my club to be run, this what is embarrassing!
-Furloighing staff to save a measly few £‘s when we had record profits (how do you think this would have effected the morale of our club staff?)
-Charging the highest ticket prices with one league cup in 20 years in return
-Self imposed transfer ban
-Taking 20 years to build a stadium that was late and way over budget
-Sacking Martin Jol mid game
-Multiple manager hire failures:
Hoddle, Santini (then got lucky with Jol who was an assistant manager who fell into the job and did very well), Ramos, AVB, Mouriniho (still early days sure but my god he’s sucked any joy out of the club and the football we see). So out of 8 managerial hires he’s got 5 badly wrong, he stumbled upon Jol then Sacked him mid game, he got Redknapp to rescue us and he did well hiring poch and then didn’t back him and now he’s made yet another horrible decision getting Jose in.
•When we had 2 title pushes he signed us Nelson & Saha and njje & Janssen.
•Listen to many ex player interviews and many of them say he’s hard to deal with

Ultimately football is about enjoyment and success and club culture ok. Whilst we are not the most successful club ever and sure times have changed during the PL, we had before levy took over won 8 FA cups, first side ever to do the double, first side to win a European trophy and have 2 or 3 if I’m not mistaken and have only not been in the top flight for one or mabye two periods in our entire history, we are no mugs. Our club was build on the Billy Nicks and Danny Blanchflowers and Dave Mckays, we have virtually always played entertaining football and we’ve done things the right way, Levy cares only about profit which has been to a detriment on the pitch and has held us back from winning things time and time again with no clear or successful plan for the football side of the business. Added to that he treats a lot of our managers and players like shit and has no regard for our fans with the prices and decisions he’s made.

And to top it all off, he fires our most loved and successful manager in recent times and replaces him with an Ex-Chelsea over the hill manager who plays the most dire horrible football many of us have ever witnessed. We might have a great new stadium and training ground but at what cost? ENIC/LEVY have taken the heart and soul of the club and supporting Spurs is predictable with the same rinse and repeat pattern under Levy and right now it’s just not enjoyable.

Thanks for the stadium and training ground and for the Poch years but it’s time now to sell up to owners who care about the fans and who want and have a plan for success ON the pitch.

COYS

@SecretLemonadeDrinker has done a comprehensive job on this so I won’t. I’ll just briefly mention that a balanced view needs to weigh the list of mistakes with the list of successes. Levy has made us more successful, richer and a far bigger club over the past two decades. That is a fact. We are far stronger now than in the year 2000. A similar list of gripes (many factually incorrect) could attributed to any chairman over two decades.

All valid points but you can't charge the most expensive season tickets in football history and not deliver on the pitch. We will support whatever cos we've been brought up with the club but we shouldn't have to pay more than anyone while winning nothing

I’m afraid that raising the price of tickets does not guarantee success on the pitch. If that were the case then winning would be easy. You’d just have to raise ticket prices.

There are good reasons not to raise prices too much but it doesn’t entitle you to anything on the pitch.

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Ye I will add, although I don’t think it will change much, I don’t see an issue with it. It’s pretty low down on the list of things to be embarrassed by at spurs tbh.

yep and I think they’ll probably be more coming over the next couple of years too.

 

[AberdeenYid]

A few people have hit on the crux of it, quite a few times now we’ve had an opportunity to win something but never pushed the boat out to do what was needed to get us over the line, we’ve only really spent big on the team when our backs been against the wall and we were struggling, so even our net expenditure figures as bad as they are paint ENIC in a better light than they really should.

How can you get excited under ENIC knowing the next time we have an opportunity to win something our answer will be the next Saha or the next Njie or no-one at all! It’s the main reason we haven’t been and never will be winners under ENIC (not the 13 managers) the ambition just isn’t there. Their desire is obvious, to maximize profit with minimum risk. Transfers as we’ve seen over the years are very risky but as Liverpool have shown get the right one’s at premium can pay dividends.

I got quite excited a year ago when we got to the champions league final. Lasted about a minute and a half into the match, but still excited.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Enjoying Jah Wobbles commentary on us. He'd be earning winner ratings on here hand over fist.

 

[Inq]

I don’t hate levy but I don’t love him. He’s only human though and I can respect that he hasn’t always got it right but sometimes he has.

I don’t want him gone from the club I would like him to handle the infrastructure and money sides of things from here on out though, nothing transfer related.

He’s done nothing but cock up transfers for the seasons we needed them most. And it breaks my heart that 2 seasons ago we had a chance to really have a go at winning something. As life long spurs fan we all dream of it and I would have loved to have given poch the opportunity to try and go for it. Even if it did all come crashing down on us at least we would have been able to say we had a fucking go. Now I just sit here rewatching the trailer to “all for nothing” what we could have potentially done and what this documentary series could have looked like.

This is where the business side of levy is at fault. Always looking for deals and when we finally get the sort of players we need it’s too late and we need to rebuild.

Transfer windows are arguably some of the most important sides to football and our clubs transfers are being made by a business man without a football mind. I don’t think the spending strategy needs to change much, I don’t think we need to sack levy, I don’t think ENIC needs to really leave to be honest.

I just would like someone who really has an idea and a plan to handle our transfers and for ENIC to give the manager a chance to win something.

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

I got quite excited a year ago when we got to the champions league final. Lasted about a minute and a half into the match, but still excited.

We went into that game as underdogs, a couple of years before we were ahead of them, had we invested the summer of 18 maybe we would have had a trophy 19, the team that did invest won the trophy...

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

We went into that game as underdogs, a couple of years before we were ahead of them, had we invested the summer of 18 maybe we would have had a trophy 19, the team that did invest won the trophy...

We did invest...in the stadium. I understand fans don’t really give a fuck about the long stability of the club, and things like ability to increase revenue streams, but if we want to continue to compete in the top 6 the stadium as absolutely necessary. It’s just a shame the team peaked at a time when we were in a crucial period of stadium development. If the team was peaking around now (pandemic aside) we might be in a better position to give it that final push.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

To be fair, mate, you can only really speak for yourself. There are doubtless a significant proportion (and possibly even a majority?) of "proper" fans (whatever a "proper" fan might be) who have followed Spurs through thick and thin who don't share your reading of the situation - or, at least, might only do so in a more nuanced manner. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't see the wide array of opinions that we see in this very thread.



So what you're saying is that ENIC are damned even if they do? I don't understand that way of thinking. Any power shift has to involve the weakening of one party as much as it does the strengthening of another. The point is that it was Spurs who were positioned to take advantage of any opening. It might just as easily have been Aston Villa, Leeds, Everton or Newcastle. But it was Spurs. That should be acknowledged, not belittled.



Just a few points of order re the above list:

- Rebrov was signed in 2000, before ENIC took over.
- Soldado, Lamela, Paulinho, Capoue and Chiriches were signed by Baldini under the kind of DoF structure that many on here (including me) want to see reimplemented at Spurs.
- Ndombele was our manager's primary target.
- Andy Reid didn't work out but Michael Dawson certainly did. An overall win for us on that deal.
- Wimmer, Nkoudou, Njie, Dos Santos - all failures, granted. But all were of a type of cheap, opportunistic signings (that are / were a feature of club transfer policy) that also includes: Bale, Alli, Walker, Dier and Lennon. With this kind of signing, I'm happy to take the rough with the smooth.



I would say that the vast majority of managers in world football fail to land their top targets the vast majority of the time. Unless you are the Real Madrid manager or unless you are always targeting under the radar (or just crap!) players, it is inevitable. Guaranteed that fans of most other clubs are also forever complaining about failing to land their top targets.



Is that really true, though, or is it just the kind of noise that we often hear from gobshite chairmen of other clubs who still happily deal with Levy a year or two later?



Fans of almost all other clubs have precisely the same complaints. No doubt that Levy does too often dither and haggle to the club's detriment but the fact that all clubs experience such frustrations shows that there must be other factors at play - namely, the selling clubs, agents and the players themselves.



As you well know, I'm sure, it wasn't a "self imposed ban". It wasn't a deliberate policy. Rather, it was a failure to land the manager's primary targets coupled with the manager's understandable refusal to accept any further consolation signings.



It took 11 years from first announcement of the desire to build a new stadium to completion. That's not far off par for the course for such a huge, costly and complex project. Arsenal was similar. And Wembley. Liverpool abandoned plans for theirs. Everton started at much the same time as Spurs and are still at least four years away. Chelsea have been trying since Abramovich took over and have still to add a single seat.

As to the stadium being completed late, you might just as well blame Levy for coronavirus as blame him for a subcontractor making an almighty mess of the cabling and safety and security systems! And "way over budget"? It seems clear that, at some point during the project, a deliberate decision was taken to deliver a far higher spec in order to both future proof the stadium and to radically transform its income generation capability. In which case, the budget was massively revised upwards. That's not the same thing at all as going "way over budget".



He didn't sack Jol mid game. The news merely leaked mid game.



I am perfectly convinced that that was always Arnesen's and Levy's plan. No reason otherwise why Jol would have taken the job as Santini's assistant.



Levy has certainly made many howlers and he has incredibly frustrating blind spots. And maybe we never will be able to go to the next level with him at the helm. I couldn't say. He certainly needs to take a step back from football operations, hire a top quality DoF and implement a consistent, intelligent strategy for achieving success on the pitch.

But for all that, I think he does care about the club. As deeply as any of us. It's just that he doesn't have the luxury of thinking like fans. He has to make hard decisions. He gets many of them wrong, agreed. And, boy, I wish he would learn lessons from his mistakes instead of repeating them over and over. But to suggest that he doesn't care; that he doesn't crave success every bit as much as we do; that he isn't acutely aware of our history and philosophy? I don't buy it.

Good post ??

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Both with Poch’s and indeed Harry I personally felt we where 2-3 good players or maybe 1 extra special player from getting over the line. we never quite pushed the boat out and now we are like Arsenal but without the trophies to show for it.

This is why Spurs fan in general have always been annoyed with our transfers, it’s frustration.

I definitely agree that our transfer strategy failed us most at those points where we were touching distance from genuine glory.

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

We did invest...in the stadium. I understand fans don’t really give a fuck about the long stability of the club, and things like ability to increase revenue streams, but if we want to continue to compete in the top 6 the stadium as absolutely necessary. It’s just a shame the team peaked at a time when we were in a crucial period of stadium development. If the team was peaking around now (pandemic aside) we might be in a better position to give it that final push.

We’ve been investing all our profits into the stadium when had we bought that extra special player or two instead of paying off 350m or so of off our stadium we could have paid 200m off, yes out debt now would be 700m+ instead off 600m plus but our yearly payment increase would be minimal in the grand scheme. That’s not even considering did we need an NFL stadium? or delays and expenses increasing due to increasing capacity, not to mention employing dodgy electricians. With the extra managable debt and a bit more prioritizing on field we could well have had a nice looking trophy cabinet and still got to sit in our shiny new seat eating our cheese and prawn sandwiches...

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

We’ve been investing all our profits into the stadium when had we bought that extra special player or two instead of paying off 350m or so of off our stadium we could have paid 200m off, yes out debt now would be 700m+ instead off 600m plus but our yearly payment increase would be minimal in the grand scheme. That’s not even considering did we need an NFL stadium? or delays and expenses increasing due to increasing capacity, not to mention employing dodgy electricians. With the extra managable debt and a bit more prioritizing on field we could well have had a nice looking cabinet and still got to sit in our shiny new seat eating our cheese and prawn sandwiches...

A lot of ifs and buts there mate. I'm sure Levy and his people took all this into consideration but for whatever reason, based on more information than we will every have they decided to prioritise the stadium. It's frustrating but I also understand it was necessary if we want to continue to compete with the teams above us.

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

A lot of ifs and buts there mate. I'm sure Levy and his people took all this into consideration but for whatever reason, based on more information than we will every have they decided to prioritise the stadium. It's frustrating but I also understand it was necessary if we want to continue to compete with the teams above us.

Just to state the obvious though the less debt and the greater the assets attached to Spurs the more profit they can get when they sell. As far as an investment for their own interest they’re doing a great job.

 

[AberdeenYid]

We did invest...in the stadium. I understand fans don’t really give a fuck about the long stability of the club, and things like ability to increase revenue streams, but if we want to continue to compete in the top 6 the stadium as absolutely necessary. It’s just a shame the team peaked at a time when we were in a crucial period of stadium development. If the team was peaking around now (pandemic aside) we might be in a better position to give it that final push.

I’m certainly in the camp that would happily give up one title in the last three years for winning five in the next ten. That’s what I believe the club are going for with their investment strategy. Only time will tell if it’s a genius move or a complete omnifuckup.

 

[SirNiNyHotspur]

I’m certainly in the camp that would happily give up one title in the last three years for winning five in the next ten. That’s what I believe the club are going for with their investment strategy. Only time will tell if it’s a genius move or a complete omnifuckup.

If the past is anything to by they will prioritize servicing debts and financing less risky projects that can expand our income base. I will be very surprised if they start prioritizing the team, other than look to get us back into CL to keep that income source but to see us go for the title with high end premium targeted purchases is a pipe dream. I hope you’re right mate but we‘ve been hearing the future’s bright for 20 years now... be nice to get there at some point...

 

[Mark_147]

I don’t hate levy but I don’t love him. He’s only human though and I can respect that he hasn’t always got it right but sometimes he has.

I don’t want him gone from the club I would like him to handle the infrastructure and money sides of things from here on out though, nothing transfer related.

He’s done nothing but cock up transfers for the seasons we needed them most. And it breaks my heart that 2 seasons ago we had a chance to really have a go at winning something. As life long spurs fan we all dream of it and I would have loved to have given poch the opportunity to try and go for it. Even if it did all come crashing down on us at least we would have been able to say we had a fucking go. Now I just sit here rewatching the trailer to “all for nothing” what we could have potentially done and what this documentary series could have looked like.

This is where the business side of levy is at fault. Always looking for deals and when we finally get the sort of players we need it’s too late and we need to rebuild.

Transfer windows are arguably some of the most important sides to football and our clubs transfers are being made by a business man without a football mind. I don’t think the spending strategy needs to change much, I don’t think we need to sack levy, I don’t think ENIC needs to really leave to be honest.

I just would like someone who really has an idea and a plan to handle our transfers and for ENIC to give the manager a chance to win something.

Whatever the plan is we need substantial investment in the playing squad. Covid or no covid Liverpool will continue to invest in their squad even though they don't need much investment. Man City, Man utd, and Chelsea will continue to spend big and wolves with thier rich owners will also continue to spend big.

Any plan needs to identify the weaknesses in our squad and improve on these areas with serious investment, otherwise we will be looking at another race for the top 10 next season.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I don’t hate levy but I don’t love him. He’s only human though and I can respect that he hasn’t always got it right but sometimes he has.

I don’t want him gone from the club I would like him to handle the infrastructure and money sides of things from here on out though, nothing transfer related.

He’s done nothing but cock up transfers for the seasons we needed them most. And it breaks my heart that 2 seasons ago we had a chance to really have a go at winning something. As life long spurs fan we all dream of it and I would have loved to have given poch the opportunity to try and go for it. Even if it did all come crashing down on us at least we would have been able to say we had a fucking go. Now I just sit here rewatching the trailer to “all for nothing” what we could have potentially done and what this documentary series could have looked like.

This is where the business side of levy is at fault. Always looking for deals and when we finally get the sort of players we need it’s too late and we need to rebuild.

Transfer windows are arguably some of the most important sides to football and our clubs transfers are being made by a business man without a football mind. I don’t think the spending strategy needs to change much, I don’t think we need to sack levy, I don’t think ENIC needs to really leave to be honest.

I just would like someone who really has an idea and a plan to handle our transfers and for ENIC to give the manager a chance to win something.

This would work.

 

[DiVaio]

Whatever the plan is we need substantial investment in the playing squad. Covid or no covid Liverpool will continue to invest in their squad even though they don't need much investment. Man City, Man utd, and Chelsea will continue to spend big and wolves with thier rich owners will also continue to spend big.

Any plan needs to identify the weaknesses in our squad and improve on these areas with serious investment, otherwise we will be looking at another race for the top 10 next season.

Really? Because every reliable Liverpool journalists says exact opposite of that. And Chelsea are spending big on wrong players. Current rumours about Wolves doesn't say it too.