Club Statement 19 Nov 19 - Pochettino leaves

danielneeds · Feb 1, 2020

Ossie85 said:
It's not about more money is about spending it wisely.
We needed a DM, a RB and a striker since Kane got injured. Yet we signed a box to box and a winger, 2 positions we have several players. It's like when we accumulated RBs. There doesn't seem to be any planning. We just buy if the player is good and on sale.
The opposite of what Liverpool did when they desperately needed key signings.

And that's Levy, not the managers. I think the first window Poch got the ones he wanted was in the summer with Ndombele and GLC. The first time we paid good money.
What is pissing me off right now is we keep doing the same things and putting the same excuses. I don't believe one bit about Mourinho being OK with having no striker. Just as I didn't believe when Pochettino said he was happy with the squad. Each time a transfer window closes the manager seems to pushed to say he's happy with the squad. Then the ITK start posting that the manager is happy, which is obviously fed by the club. It's been the same for the past 4 years. People actually believe we signed no one in the past windows because Poch didn't want to, and now are blaming him for the state of the squad, when he repeatedly said the squad needed a rebuild
Unless we get a DoF that manages this, things won't change. It's not about the money, it's about what we do with it and how we manage the squad

Although frustrating, Levy’s transfer strategy has always been an answer to the question, “How do you compete with clubs who have larger turnover and spending power?” His answer has always been to try and find the edge in the market, like a city trader or professional gambler. Essentially what matters is finding players, stock, or bets that are undervalued. If you keep doing that, it doesn’t matter if some of transactions fail or some win, over time you’ll be ahead because you always you’re always playing the edge not individual deal by individual deal.

I think the problem Levy had post the Neymar deal was that the market went crazy and the edge was harder to find, plus he found it much harder to sell players over their market value, the other crucial part of his strategy. Although in hindsight potential deals like £55m from Chelsea for Rose and £50 from United for Dier that we’re ignored were poor decisions when following this strategy.

The way he works often means that we have a squad full of talent, but as you say, where it can fall down is that it can also lead to an imbalanced squad that frustrates coaches. Will he ever change? Doubt it.

Pellshek · Feb 1, 2020

People say "we need a striker", when in fact what they should say is: "We need a striker of at least Top 6 quality who will be happy to start for a couple of months before being relegated to the bench for the remainder of his time at Spurs, except for cup games, sub appearances and injury cover."

I don't think it's about money or lack of will - I think it's simply that there are very few players who meet the above criteria. For example, I don't know what happened with the Piatek situation, but the idea Milan's #9 would look at the above offer, at 24 years of age, and see it as appealing is pretty absurd. We're flattering ourselves if we think the Spurs bench is that appealing to that kind of quality player.

We should have looked at Chris Wood in my view. He's precisely the kind of player who probably would accept the role described above.

scat1620 · Feb 1, 2020

Ossie85 said:
It's not about more money is about spending it wisely.
We needed a DM, a RB and a striker since Kane got injured. Yet we signed a box to box and a winger, 2 positions we have several players. It's like when we accumulated RBs. There doesn't seem to be any planning. We just buy if the player is good and on sale.
The opposite of what Liverpool did when they desperately needed key signings.

And that's Levy, not the managers. I think the first window Poch got the ones he wanted was in the summer with Ndombele and GLC. The first time we paid good money.
What is pissing me off right now is we keep doing the same things and putting the same excuses. I don't believe one bit about Mourinho being OK with having no striker. Just as I didn't believe when Pochettino said he was happy with the squad. Each time a transfer window closes the manager seems to pushed to say he's happy with the squad. Then the ITK start posting that the manager is happy, which is obviously fed by the club. It's been the same for the past 4 years. People actually believe we signed no one in the past windows because Poch didn't want to, and now are blaming him for the state of the squad, when he repeatedly said the squad needed a rebuild
Unless we get a DoF that manages this, things won't change. It's not about the money, it's about what we do with it and how we manage the squad

A thousand times, this. Exactly what I think is wrong with Daniel Levy's ultimate control over our player recruitment operation, and the biggest single cause of why we have so far had a pathetic trophy haul under ENIC's ownership.

sausage · Feb 1, 2020

scat1620 said:
the biggest single cause of why we have so far had a pathetic trophy haul under ENIC's ownership.

So it's not the rolling over, odd selections, or shit performances in all the semis and the finals then? :ROFLMAO:

scat1620 · Feb 1, 2020

sausage said:
So it's not the rolling over, odd selections, or shit performances in all the semis and the finals then?

I think you're describing the symptom of the problem rather than the cause.

Havre · Feb 1, 2020

scat1620 said:
A thousand times, this. Exactly what I think is wrong with Daniel Levy's ultimate control over our player recruitment operation, and the biggest single cause of why we have so far had a pathetic trophy haul under ENIC's ownership.

Same question to you. And this is based on what intelligence? The one where Pochettino extended his contract?

It would be a very interesting discussion to have if anyone could actually substantiate such claims.

scat1620 · Feb 1, 2020

Havre said:
Same question to you. And this is based on what intelligence? The one where Pochettino extended his contract?

It would be a very interesting discussion to have if anyone could actually substantiate such claims.

I didn't catch your question?

Havre · Feb 1, 2020

scat1620 said:
I didn't catch your question?

You are claiming to know how our decision making process goes when players are being bought and sold. Those claims are based on what intelligence?

scat1620 · Feb 1, 2020

Havre said:
You are claiming to know how our decision making process goes when players are being bought and sold. Those claims are based on what intelligence?

I'm claiming that Daniel Levy has ultimate say over the club's allocation of its financial resources, and as player recruitment is determined by the club's financial resources then by extension Daniel Levy has ultimate say over player recruitment, even if only on a proxy basis. Do you need a citation for Daniel Levy being the one who controls the club's financial resources?

Havre · Feb 1, 2020

scat1620 said:
I'm claiming that Daniel Levy has ultimate say over the club's allocation of its financial resources, and as player recruitment is determined by the club's financial resources then by extension Daniel Levy has ultimate say over player recruitment, even if only on a proxy basis. Do you need a citation for Daniel Levy being the one who controls the club's financial resources?

That means absolutely nothing if Levy is just acting out the wishes of the manager, scouts etc.

And what are you then hoping to replace Levy with? By your logic Pochettino would have to become our chairman to actually have control over transfers?

scat1620 · Feb 1, 2020

Havre said:
And what are you then hoping to replace Levy with?

An owner who will either ensure that the kind of gaping holes in various positions of the squad that we've seen season in, season out for a long, long time now are an unfortunate and infrequent rarity rather than a perennial constant handicapping of the team every single year. Or if that's not possible, an owner who doesn't charge the highest ticket prices in the world for the privilege of watching said handicapped team. Either's fine by me.

Havre · Feb 1, 2020

scat1620 said:
An owner who will either ensure that the kind of gaping holes in various positions of the squad that we've seen season in, season out for a long, long time now are an unfortunate and infrequent rarity rather than a perennial constant handicapping of the team every single year. Or if that's not possible, an owner who doesn't charge the highest ticket prices in the world for the privilege of watching said handicapped team. Either's fine by me.

Happy to see your analysis of teams that have developed better than Spurs since ENIC took over. Anyway. It becomes a bit off topic. And I do not believe Levy is perfect, but I'm always curious when someone writes about the inner workings of the club with such certainty. It was an honest question. There are many that obviously do have more knowledge about me so maybe I had missed something.

Ossie85 · Feb 1, 2020

Havre said:
You know this is all Levy accumulating RBs? I might say that was all Pochettino. How would you know?

I'm not going to argue the opposite as I wouldn't know. I do not know how the communication is between manager, Levy and others before we buy players, but I don't believe for a second Pochettino wouldn't have left earlier if it was all Levy. And Levy would never have been able to convince Mourinho is he didn't give Mourinho quite a lot of autonomy.

Well, I'm only assuming because I don't have inside knowledge. But I think one can make an educated guess.
They are obviously done when both manager and chairman are in agreement. But deals for players that seem a good opportunity, that have a lot of potential, and that will probably be sold for more later, can surely be more associated with a businessman. A manager will probably consider potential, but his priorities are others when assembling a squad
Don't get me wrong, it can go well. We got Walker out of that accumulation of RBs. But if we want to start winning things, we need to change that strategy. Enough with long term solutions only. The short term problems are the difference between winning or not. If we keep trying to solve things in the long run, we're never gonna win anything. As new problems arise all the time and we seem to solve them 1 or 2 seasons later, not when it mattered.
Levy must've promised things to Mourinho and he will tell him he tried, just like with Pochettino. It's only been one window, so he's not going complain publicly, but I have absolutely no faith in Levy changing his strategy next window. He can't help it.

BringBack_leGin · Feb 1, 2020

scat1620 said:
A thousand times, this. Exactly what I think is wrong with Daniel Levy's ultimate control over our player recruitment operation, and the biggest single cause of why we have so far had a pathetic trophy haul under ENIC's ownership.

While not astounding, we’ve appeared in more finals than all non big 6 clubs I’d bet. Including the final we won. The final we won was with Ramos, the finals we lost were under Hoddle, Redknapp and Pochettino (x2). Hoddle lost to an inferior team, Redknapp lost to a team a fair bit better than ours and Pochettino lost to teams also a fair bit better than us. Ramos beat an vastly superior team. He’s also the only manager we’d hired with any prior history of winner trophies.

I’d wager that Mourinho in charge every time, with all other circumstances remaining the same, and we win at least 2/3 trophies rather than just the 1 out of 5 finals.

I agree that player recruitment might have been wanting, but maybe the bigger issue has been an inability to attract a manager with that winning pedigree. My hope is that this will now change, and perhaps even this season:

eViL · Feb 1, 2020

Ossie85 said:
Yet we signed a box to box and a winger, 2 positions we have several players.

We didn't have a single out and out winger in the 1st team. Wide forwards aren't the same thing.

Ossie85 · Feb 1, 2020

eViL said:
We didn't have a single out and out winger in the 1st team. Wide forwards aren't the same thing.

What's a winger for you? Aaron Lennon?
Bergwijn is more like Son and Lucas than Lennon. He's not going to run by the line and cross the ball
In fact he usually plays in the left and is right footed. Just like Son

yido_number1 · Feb 3, 2020

It makes sad reading seeing the criticism of Poch creeping in. Anything we do from now on is because of the work he did to get us to this stage. He changed the mentality of the club and made top 4 the minimum we could hope for. A little more backing a couple of years ago and we might well have been in Liverpools shoes now.

Firmly behind Mourinho now as we go in a new direction but don't slander the work that was done to get us here.

yido_number1 · Feb 3, 2020

Gb160 said:
That's 4 out of how many signings?

Aurier first two weeks after signing (First game not one day after window, Son (Two weeks after joining), Sissoko, Wanyama, Llorente (Within two weeks of signing) Moura within two weeks of signing Janssen played in the first premier league game Everton in August and then started the next. Look at the list of his signings and see which were first team quality that were signed for the first team that started.

Players that took longer to get game time:

Nkoudou
N'Jie
Fazio
Wimmer
Trippier
Davies
Foyth
Stambouli
Vorm
Yedlin

This years:
Lo Celso (Got injured)
Clarke out on loan
Sessegnon (Arrived injured)

So basically of the players that went on to make it with us and become first choice first team players all pretty much started from the beginning. Players that never made it obviously never impressed on arriving or usurped the player in their position in their squad.

Classic examples Trippier/Yedlin competing with Walker, Davies with Rose, Wimmer and Fazio, Stambouli. Foyth is still young and wasn't expected to start, Vorm a back up keeper, Nkoudou signed as a prospect.

It's a fallacy to suit everyone's agenda because Lucas never got much game time in his first year. Now we know why, he isn't actually that consistent.

spursfan77 · Feb 11, 2020

?

the inevitable appointment at Man U seems to be getting nearer unless this is a coincidence

Shadydan · Feb 11, 2020

Just gotta take the medicine on this one

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Club Statement 19 Nov 19 - Pochettino leaves

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