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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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sausage

sausage

?
May 17, 2018
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rossdapep said:
I'll back this up to.

My bro is a United fan and he hates Woodward. He can't get more than one transfer done at a time. He gets quoted high fees, refuses to pay it, then as time goes on the selling club raise the fee and he ends up paying the over inflation.

Levy is frustrating but Woodward is worse. He likes to back the manager but once there's a bump or two he stops giving them the reigns on signings. He gave Mourinho a contract extension, and you have to take that as Mourinho being told he'd be backed further. Yet months later he was being told he can't sign a new cb and Martial has to stay put.

On the other hand I think the young players would respond very well to him.
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This is the only reason I can see them wanting Poch - to do what they want Ole to do, but better.

The problem is (something that was seen on here as 'the way to do it' when it was working, but is now apparently a big problem), when those young players finally start to gel, will they also be burnt out and stale? Is Poch a managerial fluffer that will build squads, but can't make that final step?

Despite what he may want/think, Real is not the destination for Poch for those reasons. Man United is probably the perfect opportunity for him (will there ever be less pressure at the helm of one of the world's biggest clubs?), but I think it's kind of crazy to maybe expect that he will magically do better than all the experience that has faltered before him.
 
Ghost Hardware

Ghost Hardware

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Aug 31, 2012
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JayB said:
I have mixed feelings about Poch going to United.

On the one hand, we're in a crisis and in the short-term it would seem that we'd benefit from a new manager. On the other, you just know he'd go there having taken lessons away from his experience at Spurs on the importance of maintaining a youthful squad that can implement his tactics, be given full backing, and achieve what he should have done here.

Very conflicted as to how I'd feel if he left for them.
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The utd team will be excellent for him. Young, underachieving, fast forwards. It's the last place I want him to go.
 
freeeki

freeeki

Arsehole.
Aug 5, 2008
11,842
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In honesty I don’t give a shit where Poch goes.

If he goes to United, and makes a success of things, then fair play. Good luck to him.

My only concern is Spurs, and the huge clearout of dead wood required, starting surely with the manager sooner rather than later.
 
Mr Pink

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
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It's just one big mess we're in now.

No matter what we should of done in the transfer market Poch should be doing a lot better than we currently have been in the last 9 months.

I do have some sympathy for him though, because I think his unsettling mutterings in the press, or refusal to quash speculation surrounding him, was bourne out of frustration by the failure to really back him when he needed it - after impressively exceeding all expectations.

I genuinely think he thinks that he deserved more respect, having earned the right to be trusted and backed in the way he saw fit to take the team on.

There was obviously some sort of impasse between Levy, and his MO, and the players Poch wanted.

I think that was the beginning of the end, which clearly happened months and months ago.

It's slowly spiralled and grew into what we're seeing now, an absolute mess. Finger pointing, blame shifting, fuck knows who's most accountable.

But I'm really struggling to see how Poch turns this around, it just seems too deep rooted with too much water under the bridge to salvage and to bring back the success and playing style we once had under him.
 
mike_l

mike_l

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Jul 29, 2005
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danielneeds said:
The thing is the way things are now fucking Eriksen off to train with the kids and humiliating him will only lead to more dischord from other senior players who consider him a friend. It’s such a complicated situation in that training ground at the minute.
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I do agree, but if they want to side with him over the club then I guess they're also part of the problem and should be rooted out too. Which is probably something like the problem he is dealing with.

Each game we completely embarrass ourselves with leaves me desperate for us to cut him loose, but then today I think about it and feel like I want him to stay and turn it round. I mean surely that's the ideal scenario for all of us, I'm just not convinced he can. If Levy decides he is keeping him despite a poor season then really the only option is to get rid of those Poch has earmarked, however, I don't think its Levy's fault that didn't happen this summer.
 
markiespurs

markiespurs

SC Supporter
Jul 9, 2008
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JCRD said:
If you sack Poch the problem still remain i.e. the squad is stale and well a bit shit... Would you rather another Manager spend the money or have Poch rebuild the squad again?

The squad wouldnt need rebuilding if we spent a bit int he last couple of years particularly in the last year in the build up to this summer.
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It’s still a good squad we have. Getting a new manager in would freshen things up a bit as he would inevitably bring in new coaches and training regimes.
 
JayB

JayB

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
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sausage said:
That's a different argument altogether, but I'll address both sides:
- We broke our transfer record to sign a player Juve and Real were apparently closing in on, kept Eriksen and Toby (against all expectations), and added another potential record fee in Lo Celso (who, again, was being courted). We also sold Trippier off cheap as well as Janssen and GKN. I'm baffled as to why this isn't under the radar of "backing the manager" based on the fact that those were the players he targeted. The parallel is also in that we were inches away from signing Dybala and had a huge fee rejected for Bruno Fernandes.
- We publicly announced several players could leave, and no one wanted them aside from Wanyama, which has its own weird reasons about it.

As for United...
- They had a big manager in Mourinho who was crying out for a CB last summer, and Woodward faffed about and didn't get him one.
- Woodward also sold both of OGS's forwards in the same manner that people complain about Berba/Keane.

If you read RedCafe for the MU fan's perspective, it generally reads that they would happily trade EW for DL, and think the EW is hopeless and never backs managers.


As for Poch...
- His track record at signing players isn't good, so he's far from guaranteed success even if he is allowed to get who he wants. I am willing to bet people would struggle to put together a list of confirmed 'Poch' signings (based on reality/known info, not just picking the ones that turned out well) that have turned out well. His entire career has been built on making success out of adversity, and there's no evidence to suggest that he would handle big established signings that well.



To summarise:
- I think we did back him this summer
- I don't think there's evidence that he'd be any more 'backed' at united
- I don't think there's evidence he would succeed there, even if 'backed'
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It's totally plausible to say that we backed Poch last summer, but no one could possibly argue that he's been sufficiently backed over the course of his entire tenure at the club. Despite the big spending last summer, we're still woefully lacking in key areas of the squad (DM, RB, CB). That's because we've recruited so incredibly poorly for years now, and there's widespread doubt that we have the resources to be able to address all of the problem areas.

In the time since Poch has been at Spurs, United have spent nearly a billion fucking pounds gross in the transfer market. For reference, that's more than three times what we've spent, not even accounting for the fact that we've given far greater consideration to balancing incomings against outgoing transfer fees.

As for Mourinho, the only reason he didn't get a CB was because he was after none other than Toby Alderweireld, and was quoted a 60m fee. Woodward wasn't willing to spend a massive wedge on an aging defender after the Alexis Sanchez debacle, and in light of Toby's current form can it possibly be said he was wrong? Mourinho's demands in the transfer market were misaligned with Woodward's model of buying young players with sell-on value in way that Poch's never would be. United spend lavishly, there's simply no two ways around it.

Poch has managed to take us to a CL final and have us in two title challenges despite virtually never being given his first-choice transfer targets. United are the world's richest club, who again have spent a billion pounds in the past six years, and Poch would have his pick of whoever he wanted if he were their manager. Whether or not you think he's got a good eye for talent there's no doubting he'd have at his disposal players of a significantly higher standard than the Njies, Nkoudous, Janssens, Auriers, Sissokos, etc. he's been forced to make do with at Spurs.

I know we're all down on him at the moment but I find it difficult to believe that people don't fear the prospect of Poch being given carte blanche in the transfer market at one of our direct rivals.
 
SpursSince1980

SpursSince1980

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Jan 23, 2011
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I wouldn’t have expected any decisions or announcements to have been made today. Not with the stadium’s inaugural NFL game taking place today. Daniel wouldn’t want any distractions.
If Poch is to leave, it won’t happen until tomorrow or Tuesday. If he’s still here by Wednesday afternoon, that tells me that he won’t be going anywhere, any time soon. Meaning, that he is going to be backed over the players. A relative risk, if things continue to spiral. But if Poch has received promises from Levy to bring in two or three fresh faces in January and will accept a sub par season while a rebuild is taking place, then great. I’ll also adjust my expectations accordingly.
 
Metalhead

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
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jeremystorey said:
I wouldn’t have expected any decisions or announcements to have been made today. Not with the stadium’s inaugural NFL game taking place today. Daniel wouldn’t want any distractions.
If Poch is to leave, it won’t happen until tomorrow or Tuesday. If he’s still here by Wednesday afternoon, that tells me that he won’t be going anywhere, any time soon. Meaning, that he is going to be backed over the players. A relative risk, if things continue to spiral. But if Poch has received promises from Levy to bring in two or three fresh faces in January and will accept a sub par season while a rebuild is taking place, then great. I’ll also adjust my expectations accordingly.
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If I had to bet, I would go with him staying.
 
S

SpursFox

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May 23, 2018
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Levy is probably holding out for someone to come in for him. It would be foolish to sack him now and pay him for it, for him to then be picked up straight away by Man U without a fuss. Better to get someone in need to take him away and pay us, even if its for less than what it might have been six months ago. His stock is still relatively high, he did after all take 'lowly' Tottenham to the champions league final just a few months ago. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Levy and Poch have talked about it, and levy has said he will deal with anyone in regards to Poch leaving, as long as Poch doesn't push to leave, and maintains a narrative that he is committed. Speculation of course, but we will see. With all that being said, I do still like him a lot and do very much appreciate the energy he injected into us, and the dream would still be him turning it around with a touch of magic, the hope of that is fading fast though sadly.
 
Ghost Hardware

Ghost Hardware

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Aug 31, 2012
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Has there been any ITK saying we are actually looking at new managers or Poch actually leaving? I just don't see Levy sacking him, not yet. I think he will be given the brake to try and fix it. I would be happy for Poch to stay as long as he makes bold changes in his lineup. I just hope he decides to ditch all the players who want out and build the team around those who are motivated and want to fight for him.
 
Spurzinho

Spurzinho

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Jan 24, 2016
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jeremystorey said:
I wouldn’t have expected any decisions or announcements to have been made today. Not with the stadium’s inaugural NFL game taking place today. Daniel wouldn’t want any distractions.
If Poch is to leave, it won’t happen until tomorrow or Tuesday. If he’s still here by Wednesday afternoon, that tells me that he won’t be going anywhere, any time soon. Meaning, that he is going to be backed over the players. A relative risk, if things continue to spiral. But if Poch has received promises from Levy to bring in two or three fresh faces in January and will accept a sub par season while a rebuild is taking place, then great. I’ll also adjust my expectations accordingly.
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The thing is Poch can't do quick turnarounds, especially with new players because his "methods" require months of training. So, if we give him some more players in Jan then we don't see the benefits into midway through next season (my logic being that they're just getting up to speed as season ends and then go flat again over the summer and come back only to be flattened by Poch's pre-season and then start to show their real potential mid-season. Its a pattern that can be observed in player after player.) There aren't any quick fixes under Poch.

As great as he's been if p*ssing away 20+ points at the start of every season while we get up to speed is all part of the "philosophy" then I'd argue that there's something deeply flawed about your philosophy.
 
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