The Mauricio Pochettino thread

wrd · Oct 2, 2019

Shadydan said:
Ndombele is better than Tielemans which is why Poch turned him down IMO

It's staggering to me how many people talk about the players Poch turned down when the only person we truly know of is Tielemans and because of that we got Ndombele, how can anybody say that was a bad decision?

Shadydan · Oct 2, 2019

wrd said:
It's staggering to me how many people talk about the players Poch turned down when the only person we truly know of is Tielemans and because of that we got Ndombele, how can anybody say that was a bad decision?

And it's hardly as if Tielemens is pulling up trees at Leicester this season lol

Something for people to moan at I guess

dude573 · Oct 2, 2019

He has been dealt a bad hand by our failings to ship out players who have lost interest and run down their contracts, but he has created his own problems by refusing to shift from this accursed diamond formation.

hero · Oct 2, 2019

Shadydan said:
I don't see Tielemans doing much in this team, not like we need him anyway when we signed Lo Celso as well.

You can't see based on what? We are lack of depth because Lo Celso is injured, Eriksen's head is anywhere else and well a really good CM can't help in this situation. Well, I remember correctly we wanted Rabio...

shoggy33 · Oct 2, 2019

KILLA_SIN said:
I don't know why we're asking for mourinho and Rogers both have respectively shown the same issues at previous clubs themselves. Rodgers was sacked by Liverpool mourinho has been sacked numerous times at numerous
different clubs

Most managers will get sacked at some point. Sometimes it just stops working for whatever reason and it's time for a change, as we are seeing first hand at the moment. I don't particularly want Jose but he's won stuff everywhere he's been, if there was any chance he'd get on with Levy (which there isn't) then it would be a no brainer.

freeeki · Oct 2, 2019

The general consensus among the Poch In camp seems to be that he was good in the past and can be good again.

I would counter that we need to start seriously considering the possibility that when Poch arrived here, he inherited some incredible players wanting to prove themselves to a new manager as well as bringing through excellent young prospects such as Alli and Kane wanting to do the same. It's not that he was a great manager who suddenly went bad, it's that he's a mediocre manager who successfully hid behind a group of fired-up young players.

Now those players are five years older, sick of not winning things, sick of the crap tactics and sick of the fitness regimes which leave us looking knackered most of the time, the manager no longer has them on side, and his inadequacies are laid bare for the world to see.

KILLA_SIN · Oct 2, 2019

shoggy33 said:
Most managers will get sacked at some point. Sometimes it just stops working for whatever reason and it's time for a change, as we are seeing first hand at the moment. I don't particularly want Jose but he's won stuff everywhere he's been, if there was any chance he'd get on with Levy (which there isn't) then it would be a no brainer.

I think Mou is just an easy choice because we think it's the right answer to the question. But he lost his magic a long time ago. If he cant make it work at United no chance it will work here.

lami · Oct 2, 2019

dagraham said:
Didn’t think Rodgers had won anything apart from Celtic, which doesn’t count in my book.

I kind of agree with the celtic comment, but he has still won trophies regardless of it being at the only club in scotland

leray · Oct 2, 2019

In 2019, Poch's 6 years tenure is very long. In the top top clubs, I guess only Simeone is managing one club for longer, but compare his squads throughout the years and now he's working with like a third iteration.

Managers gets sacked, because the player power is now much stronger than 10, 15 years ago. That the likes of Vertonghen, Eriksen or Toby stayed here for so long is not the norm nowadays.

Shadydan · Oct 2, 2019

hero said:
You can't see based on what? We are lack of depth because Lo Celso is injured, Eriksen's head is anywhere else and well a really good CM can't help in this situation. Well, I remember correctly we wanted Rabio...

So when Lo Celso comes back in a couple of weeks he won't get any play time, great strategy.

Also he isn't a replacement for Eriksen as he's not a no10

Not buying Tielemans or another CM is the least of our problems.

KILLA_SIN · Oct 2, 2019

freeeki said:
The general consensus among the Poch In camp seems to be that he was good in the past and can be good again.

I would counter that we need to start seriously considering the possibility that when Poch arrived here, he inherited some incredible players wanting to prove themselves to a new manager as well as bringing through excellent young prospects such as Alli and Kane wanting to do the same. It's not that he was a great manager who suddenly went bad, it's that he's a mediocre manager who successfully hid by a group of fired-up young players.

Now those players are five years older, sick of not winning things, sick of the crap tactics and sick of the fitness regimes which leave us looking knackered most of the time, the manager no longer has them on side, and his inadequacies are laid bare for the world to see.

Ive watched the same manager you have and the same players and team for the same length of time you have and you are selling Poch very short. No one can hide their inadequacies for 5+ years, 1-2 years tops. Took us to champions league qualification consecutively, second place in league, and champions league final, while moving stadiums and having budgetary restrictions while competing in a far more competitive league than it was before he arrived, and god knows how many injuries. If the magic is over its over but don't tell me Poch was never good.

freeeki · Oct 2, 2019

KILLA_SIN said:
I think Mou is just an easy choice because we think it's the right answer to the question. But he lost his magic a long time ago. If he cant make it work at United no chance it will work here.

Mourinho won the Community Shield, League Cup and Europa League in his first season at Manchester United.

In his 2nd season they finished 2nd in the Premier League after finishing 7th, 4th, 5th and 6th in the previous 4 seasons.

Don't mistake the entitlement of Manchester United fans for Mourinho's failings. His tenure there was far more successful than Pochettino's here.

freeeki · Oct 2, 2019

KILLA_SIN said:
Ive watched the same manager you have and the same players and team for the same length of time you have and you are selling Poch very short. No one can hide their inadequacies for 5+ years, 1-2 years tops. Took us to champions league qualification consecutively, second place in league, and champions league final, while moving stadiums and having budgetary restrictions while competing in a far more competitive league than it was before he arrived, and god knows how many injuries. If the magic is over its over but don't tell me Poch was never good.

I agree, and for the last 3 years our league finishes have gradually got worse, and we've fallen apart dramatically toward the end of every season without fail.

KILLA_SIN · Oct 2, 2019

freeeki said:
Mourinho won the Community Shield, League Cup and Europa League in his first season at Manchester United.

In his 2nd season they finished 2nd in the Premier League after finishing 7th, 4th, 5th and 6th in the previous 4 seasons.

Don't mistake the entitlement of Manchester United fans for Mourinho's failings. His tenure there was far more successful than Pochettino's here.

Poch tenure should be compared to what went before him at this club

DJS · Oct 2, 2019

The thing is, even in Poch’s first season that was a bit up and down, I still had this feeling we were not such a soft touch and could actually beat teams that we previously couldn’t or come back from being behind in a game as one of my main gripes cover the years of being a spurs fan is we can be so darn soft and have a brittle mentality sometimes.

Now we seem back to those bad old ways.

KILLA_SIN · Oct 2, 2019

freeeki said:
I agree, and for the last 3 years our league finishes have gradually got worse, and we've fallen apart dramatically toward the end of every season without fail.

Agree we are regressing but if you are saying that is only down to Poch I disagree, in the same time we have been regressing in the league we have also regressed with the squad. Too many other factors to consider also, Injuries, Stadium, Key Players not replaced etc. It doesn't sit right with me to say this is solely down to him.

cookiemonster · Oct 2, 2019

To those who say drop the unhappy players and field the youth ie Skipp KWP Tanganga

We will defintely dropped out of top 4 because they are not good enough

They only way is to get the experienced players to start playing at their best again

And if it entail getting a new manager in..so be it

JCRD · Oct 2, 2019

Mr Pink said:
The real question is... How does Poch turn it around if there's so many key players not on board with what he's doing?

Even if he dumps them, and we still struggle people will blame him for not starting them.

Could becoming untenable for him.

Hope not obviously.

I think the thing is most of these key players will be leaving anyways. There is no two ways about it the squad needs a rebuild whether it is with Poch or another Manager.

The question really is - are we ready to continue with Poch to rebuild that squad that clearly requires change or do we bring someone in to rebuild...

cookiemonster · Oct 2, 2019

freeeki said:
Mourinho won the Community Shield, League Cup and Europa League in his first season at Manchester United.

In his 2nd season they finished 2nd in the Premier League after finishing 7th, 4th, 5th and 6th in the previous 4 seasons.

Don't mistake the entitlement of Manchester United fans for Mourinho's failings. His tenure there was far more successful than Pochettino's here.

I would kill to win the Europa and League Cup

United fans are different because they are used to winning the league

freeeki · Oct 2, 2019

KILLA_SIN said:
Poch tenure should be compared to what went before him at this club

In terms of points finishes, take out the one anomaly where we achieved 86 points and Poch's end-of-season points totals aren't much better than AVB's or Harry's.

Our league finishes, while certainly a progression, are in line with the trajectory we were on anyway and have now declined for three successive years.

Poch's win percentage is fractionally lower than AVB's, and only a few percentage points higher than Redknapp or Sherwood.

And Poch has been blessed with a far, far superior squad to Harry, AVB or Sherwood.

Pochettino is not the saviour you all think he is. He's a charlatan who's run out of excuse cards to play.

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