The Mauricio Pochettino thread

dude573 · Sep 23, 2019

Norgie said:
For me it's a mental issue, the hangover from the players not signing contracts or possibly moving has plagued the start of our season mentally. This has now started a snowball effect and they can't seem to get out of it. The palace game was an exception and I hoped they would kick on from it and start some momentum but I worry the snowball is rolling again and the negativeness from fans and pundits will weigh heavy on the players and coaching staff. Poch needs try and get their heads right and try and get some results and then build from there, otherwise it will just get worse.

The thing is that I really don't think Poch can get their heads right. We can have as many 'clear the air' meetings as we want, but it doesn't change the fact that about four of our first teamers want to go.

All Summer Eriksen was waiting for a bid that never came, Toby and Rose have wanted out for at least two years now and despite saying he wants to stay, Jan is seemingly winding down his contract. All of them maybe with the exception of Rose, will most likely be going abroad to join Champions League clubs in the Summer, with big paydays and no risk of fees falling through as they'll be free transfers.

Poch can't motivate players who don't want to play for the club - especially some who have already planned their exit strategy.

danielneeds · Sep 23, 2019

dude573 said:
The thing is that I really don't think Poch can get their heads right. We can have as many 'clear the air' meetings as we want, but it doesn't change the fact that about four of our first teamers want to go.

All Summer Eriksen was waiting for a bid that never came, Toby and Rose have wanted out for at least two years now and despite saying he wants to stay, Jan is seemingly winding down his contract. All of them maybe with the exception of Rose, will most likely be going abroad to join Champions League clubs in the Summer, with big paydays and no risk of fees falling through as they'll be free transfers.

Poch can't motivate players who don't want to play for the club - especially some who have already planned their exit strategy.

The fact that next summer will definitely be a mass clearout, reboot, whatever you want to call it, is one reason that Levy might just be prepared to accept a less than stellar season. Although, trying to rebuild without CL football would make things harder.

They usually say it's cheaper to replace a manager than to replace the team that's stopped listening to him, but in our case most of that team that wants to go will be going next summer for nothing anyway, so it's not quite so clearcut.

knowlespurs · Sep 23, 2019

dude573 said:
The thing is that I really don't think Poch can get their heads right. We can have as many 'clear the air' meetings as we want, but it doesn't change the fact that about four of our first teamers want to go.

All Summer Eriksen was waiting for a bid that never came, Toby and Rose have wanted out for at least two years now and despite saying he wants to stay, Jan is seemingly winding down his contract. All of them maybe with the exception of Rose, will most likely be going abroad to join Champions League clubs in the Summer, with big paydays and no risk of fees falling through as they'll be free transfers.

Poch can't motivate players who don't want to play for the club - especially some who have already planned their exit strategy.

agreed, of the team that played Saturday both full backs we openly wanted to sell and both centre halves are leaving next summer, everything just feels stale at the club

dagraham · Sep 23, 2019

dude573 said:
The thing is that I really don't think Poch can get their heads right. We can have as many 'clear the air' meetings as we want, but it doesn't change the fact that about four of our first teamers want to go.

All Summer Eriksen was waiting for a bid that never came, Toby and Rose have wanted out for at least two years now and despite saying he wants to stay, Jan is seemingly winding down his contract. All of them maybe with the exception of Rose, will most likely be going abroad to join Champions League clubs in the Summer, with big paydays and no risk of fees falling through as they'll be free transfers.

Poch can't motivate players who don't want to play for the club - especially some who have already planned their exit strategy.

He’s constantly reiterated that he wants to stay. Sounds more like we aren’t prepared to give him a new contract to me.

dude573 · Sep 23, 2019

knowlespurs said:
agreed, of the team that played Saturday both full backs we openly wanted to sell and both centre halves are leaving next summer, everything just feels stale at the club

It really does.

To try and offer a morsel of optimism the only thing I can think of is that we do have some players who will fight for the cause. Lamela, Alli, Kane, Lloris, Son, Moura, Winks, Dier, Sissoko and Sanchez come to mind. Some of those names are prone to mishaps and blow hot & cold, but their commitment and effort can't be questioned.

On top of that N'Dombele and Lo Celso have a lot to prove as new signings and younger players like Foyth, KWP, Sess and maybe even Parrot will show heart when or if they are given a chance.

On paper our starting 11 won't be as strong, but right now we need commitment more than quality.

glacierSpurs · Sep 23, 2019

If only we had 3 of the players left during the window, the reboot next season or the coming window will be less massive. Wanyama and Rose should really have left. They are both so close to exit. And as I mentioned in another post, this was really a share responsibility both Poch and Levy gotta share.

Eriksen was the strange one. Touted all summer and most likely to leave but he did himself no favours at all in trying to sell himself.

And that really brings me to say Bruno Fernandez should really come in regardless we got GLC or not. Even if we got Dybala, there is really no harm to have him to come in if we were so close to the deal. It really pains me to see GLC not available now and Eriksen playing like shit yet to not have the option of Bruno Fernandez.

Now we are left with more deadwood and less commitment without new faces to refresh the team.

HW61 · Sep 23, 2019

We can’t hide from the fact that performances in 2019 have been crap and are a concern. I agree with those questioning why some of the youngsters such as Skipp and Parrott, who are very talented and would play like they care, aren’t being used. They were two of the highlights in preseason. I also get the hatred of the diamond formation and frustrating substitutions.

I also recall a fair proportion of Liverpool fans wanting Klopp out 2-3 seasons ago. Look at them now. All I’m saying is the alternatives may bring a very short term fix, but we’ve been there so many times before.

Just a bit more patience and support for the current coaching team may be worth it. I’d love Poch to just get back to the basics. Kick those not fully focused on Spurs out of the team, whoever they are, and replace them with those that are hungry; that will walk through walls for him and Spurs.

I just feel it may prove far more beneficial and effective than the revolution of a new management team who will get pissed off with Levy 2-3 years down the line if they last that long.

Nebby · Sep 23, 2019

Timberwolf said:
My biggest concern at the moment is that we don't look particularly well coached. We have the third best squad in the league yet for the best part of a year our passing has been predictable, our defence shaky and unless we're playing on the break we consistently struggle to break teams down or pass our way through them.

I watched Brighton against Newcastle the other day and Brighton, who don't have half the talent we have, were able to consistently put together intelligent passing moves and create spaces behind the opposition. They didn't convert any of the opportunities they created because they don't have the individual talent, but they looked a well drilled side who knew exactly what they were doing going forward. You could say the same of Norwich - they're a flawed side but they look extremely well coached in the way they pass the ball around and put attacking moves together.

In the last year it feels like most of our goals have come from individual moments of brilliance rather than any kind of coaching. When the other team gets into a defensive shape we seem to just pass the ball around from side to side and occasionally throw in a speculative cross if the ball gets out wide. Occasionally a quick vertical pass will create a pocket of space, but despite our technical talent we seem almost incapable of passing through the middle or creating space in the way that the best attacking sides do. Even against Palace, a game we dominated, our goals were fairly one-dimensional - every single one of them coming from crosses from the right side. Some of them were exceptionally well taken, and fair play to Poch for exploiting Palace's weakness, but they were all a result of us ruthlessly exploiting an obvious weakness in our opponents rather than well-coached passing moves. Despite winning 4-0, amazingly our xG was only like 1.2 compared to palace's 0.6. We were converting low percentage chances due to individual brilliance rather than creating reliable goalscoring opportunities.

When Poch came in he got all of our players to over-perform. Now it seems more and more like our players are stuck in a rut and underperforming. Eriksen's in terrible form, we haven't seen the best of Alli in about 2 years, we're massively underutilising Kane and I often feel that players like Son and Lucas aren't being used in the most efficient way. The only players on an upward trajectory are young players like Winks and those brought in from the cold like Sissoko - everyone else has gone stale.

It's a very difficult situation as Poch has been loyal to us, is on a long contract and has a huge amount of credit in the bank. He's also capable of getting this squad into the top 4, though it will be one hell of a slog and a close race. Moreover, if we were to replace him we could easily create huge amounts of unrest and things could get a lot worse before they get better. Ultimately we're stuck between a rock and a hard place and I think the most likely outcome is that we suffer a slow, inevitable decline over the course of the season. I think Poch will then parts way come the summer or if we go on a terrible run and are in serious danger of dropping out of the top 4.

Big difference is that when we play Brighton or Newcastle, they will line up with eleven men behind the ball. When they play each other, they will both show attacking intent. You are comparing apples with oranges.

That said, Poch does seem to be mirroring Jose in many ways. Jose started out playing adventurous and attacking football, but quickly became more pragmatic and boring. Poch seems to be going the same way. I wish he would go back to the old system that served us so well.

kaz Hirai · Sep 23, 2019

Nebby said:
Big difference is that when we play Brighton or Newcastle, they will line up with eleven men behind the ball. When they play each other, they will both show attacking intent. You are comparing apples with oranges.

That said, Poch does seem to be mirroring Jose in many ways. Jose started out playing adventurous and attacking football, but quickly became more pragmatic and boring. Poch seems to be going the same way. I wish he would go back to the old system that served us so well.

We were pragmatic and boring against Leicester, palace and arsenal?
Not sure what you were watching

Everlasting Seconds · Sep 23, 2019

After five years we need time for a painful rebuild.
Fuck me that's disappointing.

C0YS · Sep 23, 2019

Gareth88 said:
Last year after 6 games we had 12 points, playing similar opposition up to this point. Currently we have 8. With our next run of games I see us getting max 12 out of the 15 the and that is being optimistic. Next 5 games are Southampton Home(W), Brighton Away(W), Watford Home(W), Pool Away(L), Everton Away(W). That would see us with 20 points from 33 that were available compared to last year we had 24 of 33 available.

Tbf last year we started very well (though not really in performance) before completely collapsing around Christmas. We are about 3 points bellow par. That isn't so bad and we can work on it. Also all but Liverpool anv Man City are all replicating their inconsistent last season form.

There is nothing to be overall conserved with game wise. Performance wise has been a real worry. Its ok to have results like the last three games, conceding 2 goals from a winning position. But not three games in a row. The thing is a stronger team would be sitting with 13 points atm and we would be looking pretty buy we are not.

There is time to.sort this out but something does need to change.

Hakkz · Sep 23, 2019

HW61 said:
We can’t hide from the fact that performances in 2019 have been crap and are a concern. I agree with those questioning why some of the youngsters such as Skipp and Parrott, who are very talented and would play like they care, aren’t being used. They were two of the highlights in preseason. I also get the hatred of the diamond formation and frustrating substitutions.

I also recall a fair proportion of Liverpool fans wanting Klopp out 2-3 seasons ago. Look at them now. All I’m saying is the alternatives may bring a very short term fix, but we’ve been there so many times before.

Just a bit more patience and support for the current coaching team may be worth it. I’d love Poch to just get back to the basics. Kick those not fully focused on Spurs out of the team, whoever they are, and replace them with those that are hungry; that will walk through walls for him and Spurs.

I just feel it may prove far more beneficial and effective than the revolution of a new management team who will get pissed off with Levy 2-3 years down the line if they last that long.

It's not the same though. Klopp inherited a team and struggled to keep going. But he persevered with his idea and got his players. Steady going up.

Poch got going, and has now regressed in terms of his tactics and ideas. No longer having a clear identity (that Klopp has).

VancouverSpur · Sep 23, 2019

He will probably play the regular first team tomorrow and no youngsters at all just so we all can have a meltdown on here. :sneaky:

Tyler24durden · Sep 23, 2019

We don’t press like we used to.

Poch has lost the squad imho as he’s all too often come out with ill times comments in the press (before CL Final about leaving, eve of Leicester game about not the best squad etc).

If I were a player at Spurs I’d be fed up with all the uncertainty about his future that he causes himself via the media.

Add to this the players we wanted to offload and didn’t plus the ones who wanted to go and didn’t, it’s a squad that is not 100% committed; as is the manager.

We don’t seem organised, hungry or well coached at present.

We just look like a tired team, bereft of ideas and motivation.

I love Poch for what he’s done but over the last year, he’s lost his focus and passion for us and I’m not sure he can turn it around.

Not refreshing the squad in the previous transfer windows has not helped poch nor with the attitude of the squad either.

Youngsters aren’t being given a chance either anymore.

The football is dull at present and something needs to change and I think it’ll be Poch and I think he will go to Real Madrid.

Joeyboey · Sep 23, 2019

HW61 said:
We can’t hide from the fact that performances in 2019 have been crap and are a concern. I agree with those questioning why some of the youngsters such as Skipp and Parrott, who are very talented and would play like they care, aren’t being used. They were two of the highlights in preseason. I also get the hatred of the diamond formation and frustrating substitutions.

I also recall a fair proportion of Liverpool fans wanting Klopp out 2-3 seasons ago. Look at them now. All I’m saying is the alternatives may bring a very short term fix, but we’ve been there so many times before.

Just a bit more patience and support for the current coaching team may be worth it. I’d love Poch to just get back to the basics. Kick those not fully focused on Spurs out of the team, whoever they are, and replace them with those that are hungry; that will walk through walls for him and Spurs.

I just feel it may prove far more beneficial and effective than the revolution of a new management team who will get pissed off with Levy 2-3 years down the line if they last that long.

Very different to Klopp. He’s been on a constant upward trend since he joined and like a lot of managers his first season did contain some bumps.

What’s so concerning with us is that results, performances in the league have been torrid for 8/9 months now and there’s absolutely nothing to suggest it’s going to improve.

Gassin's finest · Sep 23, 2019

For me its not been quite right since we left the Lane.

Gb160 · Sep 23, 2019

Gassin's finest said:
For me its not been quite right since we left the Lane.

We were fucking incredible at home that season...my favourite year of having an ST that was.

kaz Hirai · Sep 23, 2019

Joeyboey said:
Very different to Klopp. He’s been on a constant upward trend since he joined and like a lot of managers his first season did contain some bumps.

What’s so concerning with us is that results, performances in the league have been torrid for 8/9 months now and there’s absolutely nothing to suggest it’s going to improve.

You didn't see an improvement in our attacking football In Our last 3 league games compared to Newcastle, villa and the games last season?

Lol at everyone being sensationalist , like I'm on the talksport forum the last couple months .

Nearly a perfect away performance to a team that will likely turn over many of the other top 6 at their ground

doctor stefan Freud · Sep 23, 2019

HW61 said:
Just a bit more patience and support for the current coaching team may be worth it. I’d love Poch to just get back to the basics. Kick those not fully focused on Spurs out of the team, whoever they are, and replace them with those that are hungry; that will walk through walls for him and Spurs.

I just feel it may prove far more beneficial and effective than the revolution of a new management team who will get pissed off with Levy 2-3 years down the line if they last that long.

This is key. He’s done it before, when he first arrived. While CL qualification is crucial, I wouldn’t say it was guaranteed. Not by any stretch of the imagination. This either petrifies him and his coaching team and he sticks with familiar, albeit demotivated, players in the hope the collective quality is enough to get us over the line, or he boots out the disaffected players, brings in youth who will run through walls for him, accepting there will be a drop in quality but a rise in energy, commitment and cohesiveness. The second option is the braver option but it’s a much harder decision now that CL revenue is important to the club’s functionality.

Look at Lamela- his energy rates and desire are still crazy even if he is slower than a turd in a freezer. If the more senior pros aren’t prepared to work like him, get the kids in.

I’m not convinced Poch sees this as an option, or Skipp would have been trusted over the grossly ineffective Wanyama last Saturday

McFlash · Sep 23, 2019

Is this possibly the first troublesome period in his managerial career to date?
If so, then he's on a steep learning curve due to his own success.
I would love him to turn things round but top clubs aren't exactly the best place to learn your trade and we sometimes forget, because of that success, that he's still a young manager and has a lot to learn.
Can we/will we grant him that?

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