The beginning of the end...

Ronwol196061 said:

Agree with the idea that Poch needs everyone on the same page to play his way. The problem with Poch is not so much the fire that he created inside the players,which they didn't seem to have for this game,its bigger than that.Its the fact that his system is limited,that he himself seems to have a hard time in changing things.In that way he is a one trick pony I think.When the one trick works its great,when it doesn't he looks for answers to why it doesn't as he really hasn't shown he can change the system. yesterday everyone was running around like headless chickens.

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Primativ said:

Actually the performances are the problem here. Even when we've been winning, they've glossed over incredibly poor performances. Still waiting for people to name the great performances we've put in under Poch in the last 12 - 18 months? That says it all!

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Amo said:

People need us to not lose half our matches in any given calendar year.

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Primativ said:

New season we should have started like a house on fire,

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arunspurs said:

I dont think thats necessarily true though.
People here didnt have a meltdown when we lost 13 PL games last season.
It is only happening now because
i) Poch himself is unhinged & his press conference is getting weirder day by day-yesterday said his squad is unsettled.
ii) The results & performance is no good for prolonged period
iii) Today's ITK here

Poch still has loads of credit with the fans including me. But if anyone says , there is no cause for concerns here, then they are kidding themselves.

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Metalhead said:

He's not unhinged mate. Come on. The squad may well be unsettled, what is strange about saying that? He did (rightfully) say that this is no excuse for the performance yesterday. If we are still not seeing any positive signs of change by October, once the new team is bedded in then yes, it will be time to get concerned.

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@Bobby__Lucky said:

You do remember that Rose and Davies were both out. It actually worked and we were in acendency when he was subbed. It all went wrong when he went off.

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arunspurs said:

Its subjective.
I have seen a calm Poch in press conference for 5+ years but he is not the same in last 4-5 months. Its not me saying. Its the journos who is interviewing saying now. Remember the lengthy rant he gave start of season when a journo asked how he rates Lamela's game on the day ?
Our players performance in NLD will say a lot.

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arunspurs said:

Its subjective.
I have seen a calm Poch in press conference for 5+ years but he is not the same in last 4-5 months. Its not me saying. Its the journos who is interviewing saying now. Remember the lengthy rant he gave start of season when a journo asked how he rates Lamela's game on the day ?
Going forward, Our players performance in NLD will say a lot.

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arunspurs said:

Lets see some sequence of events & facts....

1) From start of 2018/19 season to middle of Feb 2019, our PL record : Played :26, Draw -0, Loss -6(Watford,pool,City,Arse, United, Wolves)...We won against low,mid table teams and lost against team which are tougher opponents.
2) We pummel Dortmund at home in Feb, without Kane who was recovering.
3) Then there is a 10 day winter break.
4) After winter break, Kane starts even though we have been doing brilliantly.
5) Kane coming back & starting could just be coincidence but all of a sudden for whatever reasons, we start performing terribly.
6) In the next 13 PL games, Played 13, Lost - 7, Draw - 2, won - 3. The 3 wins against Palace (home), Hudderfield (home), Brighton (home). All 3 wins against weaker opposition with the new stadium bounce. 2 of the 3 wins without Kane.
7) Before the Bournemouth home loss, Poch says 'When you talk about Tottenham, everyone says you have an amazing house but you need to put in the furniture. If you want to have a lovely house maybe you need better furniture' and says there has to be painful rebuild.
8) In mean time we are scrapping through CL round after round.
9)Moura semis happen & gets dropped for Kane again in CL finals

10) Then the summer break
11) Trippier sold
12) Danny Rose dropped for the tour
13) Rose back in radar.
14) Jan doesnt play much part even in tour. Previous tours, Jan build of game time is usually starts fro m45min to 60min to final preseason game 90min. For first time, he is not completing his minutes.
15) Levy tries to keep Poch happy with 4 players that were rumoured to get start of window. IMO, Levy is trying to take Poch's stand.
16) Eriksen stuff drags on & on.
17) Jan doesnt start the first game.
18) Nearly lose the Villa game, somehow lucky against City and lost against Newcastle....
19) In all of these draws & losses, we almost always concede first. No defensive organisation
20) Poch continues to moan & moan in press conference....


My Take :

i) If you put these 20 together, its blatantly obvious things arent right. From beating lower table teams start of last season, we are not even creating chances
ii) I firmly belive Levy has tried to please his manager with the signings he wanted. But for some reason, he cannot get all the players Poch wanted out.
iii) Jan Vertonghen is my Spurs role model. He has transcended managers & he is the senior pro in the club. If he is being sidelined for non-fitness reasons, then its big big trouble for Poch.
iv) This is my guess : I think Poch wants players to be committed at same time we are looking to sell them. I guess its not going well down with them. I have a feeling Players aren't amused to see him playing his favorites inspite of hardwork at training. Its a valid stand if this is the case. If players & Poch doesnt come to a amical solution, I can only see this sliding down even further.
v) A lot will be know next week in NLD. If we lose it with no fight, Poch is done. Time to cut the losses and look for another option.

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HenryDuquemin said:

Well that's hardly the consensus view from journalists:

"The perception among some is that Pochettino is a man on the edge, tired and demotivated by it all, ready to walk at any point. That's not the case.
He's actually calm and composed in his press conferences and laid back on the whole. During the off-camera section of Friday's press conference he was every bit at ease in himself, leaning back on his chair as normal, discussing the fact that he cannot control the fate of various players inside the club and that he must just wait this week out, laughing in exchanges with his assistant Jesus Perez about their time together."

That's Gold's take on it

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Snarfalicious said:

Take. A. Breath.

Ali Gold's article should really be the viewpoint to grasp on to right now. It makes complete sense and gives an insight into the mind of Pochettino. We know that in his time here, you're either all-in or all-out. If you aren't completely with the "project," you are quickly ostracized, even if it's at the detriment to the overall quality on the pitch. Pochettino is a firm believer in the sum being greater than the parts. A team in unison, working towards the same goal, will always outperform individual performers.

Looking back since January 2019, there's some obvious reasons for the drop in form. We lost Harry Kane for 17 games last season, beginning in January 2019. Dele, one of our top 3 goal scorers typically, missed 16 games from January on and was always struggling to get 100% fit. Eric Dier and Harry Winks, two players I'm sure Poch was relying on heavily in midfield, missed at least 12 games each over that span. It doesn't just stop there, though. The knock-on effect sees players like Sissoko, Son, Moura, Eriksen, etc. all relied upon to play minutes that far exceed what should be typically necessary. Add in to that a Champions League Final run, that always took precedence (and rightfully so) in Poch's mind, our League form suffered as a result.

Add in to that difficulty with maintaining even acceptable quality of play at RB and zero (0, zilch, nada) investment in the squad over the whole year, people are still surprised we struggled mightily?

I'm with Poch until the end. I don't know any other manager/coach that could have really weathered the storm that was last season and still put us in a position to be one quality performance away from the most coveted trophy in club football and Top 4 (weak opposition, or not).

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@Bobby__Lucky said:

In a way what you say infers kane could be a problem amongst the players.

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fishhhandaricecake said:

Son gave away a penalty early on to moses it didn’t work.

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Snarfalicious said:

Take. A. Breath.

Ali Gold's article should really be the viewpoint to grasp on to right now. It makes complete sense and gives an insight into the mind of Pochettino. We know that in his time here, you're either all-in or all-out. If you aren't completely with the "project," you are quickly ostracized, even if it's at the detriment to the overall quality on the pitch. Pochettino is a firm believer in the sum being greater than the parts. A team in unison, working towards the same goal, will always outperform individual performers.

Looking back since January 2019, there's some obvious reasons for the drop in form. We lost Harry Kane for 17 games last season, beginning in January 2019. Dele, one of our top 3 goal scorers typically, missed 16 games from January on and was always struggling to get 100% fit. Eric Dier and Harry Winks, two players I'm sure Poch was relying on heavily in midfield, missed at least 12 games each over that span. It doesn't just stop there, though. The knock-on effect sees players like Sissoko, Son, Moura, Eriksen, etc. all relied upon to play minutes that far exceed what should be typically necessary. Add in to that a Champions League Final run, that always took precedence (and rightfully so) in Poch's mind, our League form suffered as a result.

Add in to that difficulty with maintaining even acceptable quality of play at RB and zero (0, zilch, nada) investment in the squad over the whole year, people are still surprised we struggled mightily?

I'm with Poch until the end. I don't know any other manager/coach that could have really weathered the storm that was last season and still put us in a position to be one quality performance away from the most coveted trophy in club football and Top 4 (weak opposition, or not).

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WiganSpur said:

I don't think anybody was surprised by last season's league form considering the circumstances you mention.

But the point is there has been no improvement in either performances or results this season and the mitigating factors are a lot lower. There are still some there, 1 or 2 injuries, new signings not integrated, Eriksen uncertainty. But in a month or two's time there really will be no excuses whatsoever.

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