Tottenham Vs Hull City: Match Thread

CowInAComa · Oct 27, 2013

davidmatzdorf said:
I wrote something similar on the match-ratings thread:

It wasn't an attractive performance, but it's increasingly obvious that one of the main reasons we are not conceding goals is because of the conservative way we are playing. The other team doesn't get the ball in dangerous areas frequently enough to mount attacks and, when they do, we have the World's Fastest Goalkeeper to snuff things out. It's not something I'm wildly pleased about, but we are keeping clean sheets precisely because we often hang onto the ball forever without trying anything daring.

The defence works as a unit, week after week. We keep on keeping clean sheets (12 out of 15 matches this season - we had 14 all last season from 54 matches). Sometimes we look as if we've been caught out, but the opposition still don't score. So the defence is working, but that is in part because they have less work to do than in past years and that, in turn, is a direct result of our slow build-up and interminable conservative passing.

I just wish we didn't look so fucking constipated whenever we try to attack. It's tedious to watch and so frustrating to see all that talent standing around out there, without an actual attacking idea to share between them. If the crowd keeps making frustrated murmuring noises, that's why. We look great over and over and then ... nothing happens when we actually mount an attack.

It seems that every time we grind out yet another 1-0 win, the thread fills with people saying we were "lucky". When you don't concede any goals, winning is not lucky.

There will come a point where we dont fluke a goal or earn a penalty.

The root issue is AvB cant do attacking football. His style is exactly as you described, suffocating the life out of the opponent and nullifying their threat.

thinktank · Oct 27, 2013

davidmatzdorf said:
As for Liverpool, the issue with them has been the same since the season started. They have a top-4-standard starting 11. If they magically keep every one of their first 11 fit all season, then they could win the league. Their problem is lack of strength in depth. When they start losing key players for a month or two at a time, their lack of squad strength will start to show. It's a less severe version of the same problem that Aston Villa had when they were good.

Their defense is pretty dodgy tbh. Good teams will always have a good chance against them because of that.

xtrac · Oct 27, 2013

jezz said:
Not who we lost, more who we are trying to integrate.
Today new, chiri, townsend,erik, holtby paul and solado.
Those who i think will get in, new, lamela,rose,capoue.
Including rose and townsend(not new but for this season yes)
So about 9 new players.
Kinda hits home when you think about it.
3 points off the top after 9 games not that bad really.
Who knows around xmas we might start to shine.

updated my post mate

shelfboy68 · Oct 27, 2013

willVulcan10 said:
Liverpool along with arsenal are settled from last season, kept the same manager & retained their best player, they (Liverpool) also have no midweek distractions & more time on the training ground. Credit to both clubs for seizing the early advantage however I fully expect the teams in transition ie us, city, chelsea & united to get stronger as the season goes on & perhaps all finish above Liverpool. Lets remember he who laughs last laughs longest. Early days my friend.

Mmm we will have to see about that currently we are the most clueless spurs team for years imo but I can take one nil wins if we look like adding more but we don't its shit being served up.

JUSTINSIGNAL · Oct 27, 2013

CowInAComa said:
There will come a point where we dont fluke a goal or earn a penalty.

The root issue is AvB cant do attacking football. His style is exactly as you described, suffocating the life out of the opponent and nullifying their threat.

AVB Record:
PORTO:
- Games played: 51
Win:45,Draw:4,Lost: 2,Goal For: 135 ,Goal Against: 36 -Win% 88.24

(y)

easley91 · Oct 27, 2013

Paceyjg said:
Why are we top?

Are we playing well and scoring lots of goals?

We're winning and keeping clean sheets though..

Ideally we'd score bucket loads, but I'd take what we have right now instead of scoring 3 goals and still losing or only drawing.

Only a few clubs in the world will score loads and concede so few. The Barcas, Madrids etc.

davidmatzdorf · Oct 27, 2013

CowInAComa said:
There will come a point where we dont fluke a goal or earn a penalty.

Of course there will. But if we keep another clean sheet, we still won't lose, we'll draw.

CowInAComa said:
The root issue is AvB cant do attacking football. His style is exactly as you described, suffocating the life out of the opponent and nullifying their threat.

That's not what his season at Porto would suggest. I'd like to hope that this is a transitional phase: laying the boring foundations first and then building the flair superstructure once that is in place, although I have to say that I'm not convinced by my own argument.

There is considerable solace in the fact that, without looking convincing, we have an 80% win percentage (66.67% in the league) and are accumulating 2.47 points per game (2.11 in the league). If we were playing this kind of unattractive football and languishing in 13th position, I'd be considerably more displeased. I do miss the fun of watching our 2009-2012 team, though.

xtrac · Oct 27, 2013

xtrac said:
Do us a favour mate as my brains a bit pickled at the moment, apart from first team player BAE and Bale, who else did we lose from the first team last season??

just thought of a couple.

Parker.. more of a fringe player
Hudd..as above
Carrol..as above
King ..retired, hardly played

so in theory unless ive missed someone out, we spent 100 million to replace fringe players and Bale, but failed to purchase a left back to cover Rose yet we let BAE out on loan! yes you can argue Verts, but im sure he stated last season he prefers to play CB, and was getting a bit miffed in playing LB.

So to clarify, last season best points tally playing 4-4-1-1, we lost a LWF and LB and spent £100m, yet we were far more creative going forward wether Bale was playing or not, so i argue its not the playing staff, its the formation and tactics that are making the difference, which i believe needs addressing and it falls to AVB!! pretty daming when you think about it!

s

xtrac said:
Do us a favour mate as my brains a bit pickled at the moment, apart from first team player BAE and Bale, who else did we lose from the first team last season??

just thought of a couple.

Parker.. more of a fringe player
Hudd..as above
Carrol..as above
King ..retired, hardly played

so in theory unless ive missed someone out, we spent 100 million to replace fringe players and Bale, but failed to purchase a left back to cover Rose yet we let BAE out on loan! yes you can argue Verts, but im sure he stated last season he prefers to play CB, and was getting a bit miffed in playing LB.

So to clarify, last season best points tally playing 4-4-1-1, we lost a LWF and LB and spent £100m, yet we were far more creative going forward wether Bale was playing or not, so i argue its not the playing staff, its the formation and tactics that are making the difference, which i believe needs addressing and it falls to AVB!! pretty daming when you think about it!

edited jezz

CowInAComa · Oct 27, 2013

JUSTINSIGNAL said:
AVB Record:
PORTO:
- Games played: 51
Win:45,Draw:4,Lost: 2,Goal For: 135 ,Goal Against: 36 -Win% 88.24

Porto have won the league 9 of the last 11. Its about as much a given as you can get.

We may as well start talking of Neil Lennon in the same bracket as Guardiola.

yojambo · Oct 27, 2013

JUSTINSIGNAL said:
AVB Record:
PORTO:
- Games played: 51
Win:45,Draw:4,Lost: 2,Goal For: 135 ,Goal Against: 36 -Win% 88.24

Out of interest have you got the stats for his time with us?

CowInAComa · Oct 27, 2013

davidmatzdorf said:
Of course there will. But if we keep another clean sheet, we still won't lose, we'll draw.

That's not what his season at Porto would suggest. I'd like to hope that this is a transitional phase: laying the boring foundations first and then building the flair superstructure once that is in place, although I have to say that I'm not convinced by my own argument.

There is considerable solace in the fact that, without looking convincing, we have an 80% win percentage (66.67% in the league) and are accumulating 2.47 points per game (2.11 in the league). If we were playing this kind of unattractive football and languishing in 13th position, I'd be considerably more displeased. I do miss the fun of watching our 2009-2012 team, though.

I would be more confident if we showed any sign of life at all. I can appreciate a work in progress, but I cant accept we will transform in a flowing attacking outfit without actually ever attempting to implement any such thing in our football.

Our movement is literally nonexistent, our attacks absolutely devoid of ideas. It looks anything other than a matter of magically clicking. You keep doing the same thing and you keep getting the same result right?

You could state the case that we look less and less fluid as AvBs methods are being integrated into the playing staff.

Samson · Oct 27, 2013

Blackcanary said:
The crowd or the team? Why does Sunday make a difference?

Crowd. I don't go to Sunday games because they are no fun. This is actually good for us when we play away, but kills us at home. When you add in the fatigue from the number of games and the travelling for the players, it's an ugly mix.

donny1013 · Oct 27, 2013

Samson said:
Liverpool didn't sell their superstar player. 2 seasons in a row, in fact.

Liverpool didn't get offered a world record fee. Fact.

JUSTINSIGNAL · Oct 27, 2013

CowInAComa said:
Porto have won the league 9 of the last 11. Its about as much a given as you can get.

We may as well start talking of Neil Lennon in the same bracket as Guardiola.

If he really wanted his teams to just 'suffocate the opposition' don't you think that Porto would have scored considerably less goals? Unless you are suggesting the players went out and scored goals in spite of the manager?

xtrac · Oct 27, 2013

CowInAComa said:
I would be more confident if we showed any sign of life at all. I can appreciate a work in progress, but I cant accept we will transform in a flowing attacking outfit without actually ever attempting to implement any such thing in our football.

Our movement is literally nonexistent, our attacks absolutely devoid of ideas. It looks anything other than a matter of magically clicking. You keep doing the same thing and you keep getting the same result right?

You could state the case that we look less and less fluid as AvBs methods are being integrated into the playing staff.

absolutely spot on!

jezz · Oct 27, 2013

CowInAComa said:
I would be more confident if we showed any sign of life at all. I can appreciate a work in progress, but I cant accept we will transform in a flowing attacking outfit without actually ever attempting to implement any such thing in our football.

Our movement is literally nonexistent, our attacks absolutely devoid of ideas. It looks anything other than a matter of magically clicking. You keep doing the same thing and you keep getting the same result right?

You could state the case that we look less and less fluid as AvBs methods are being integrated into the playing staff.

You could be right, but as with everything else in life, only time will tell.
Were in a fortunate position, due to us winning most of our games.
Just imagine if were losing these games, this thread would overload and crash the net, nevermind this site.

xtrac · Oct 27, 2013

JUSTINSIGNAL said:
If he really wanted his teams to just 'suffocate the opposition' don't you think that Porto would have scored considerably less goals? Unless you are suggesting the players went out and scored goals in spite of the manager?

Didnt he have the likes of Hulk and Falcao tho?? just saying

JUSTINSIGNAL · Oct 27, 2013

xtrac said:
Didnt he have the likes of Hulk and Falcao tho?? just saying

But surely AVB's supposedly negative tactics and slow build up player would have meant they scored less? Just saying

CowInAComa · Oct 27, 2013

jezz said:
You could be right, but as with everything else in life it takes time.
Were in a fortunate position, due to us winning most of our games.
Just imagine if were losing these games, this thread would overload and crash the net, nevermind this site.

Is it not a worrying thing therefore just how fine our margins are?

3 penalties and complete fluked cross/goal account for 4 of our 9 goals. Thats 5 goals from open play in 9 games.

And its not new its a continuation of last season where we suffered exactly the same archilles heel and was pulled out of the fire game after game by Bale.

mil1lion · Oct 27, 2013

The biggest challenge AVB has had is losing key players in each window. Last year we lost Modric and this year we lost Bale. We've probably relied on those individual players too much over the past couple of seasons. Especially last season where we really did rely on Bale to come up with individual brilliance late on in games. It takes time to adapt to life without those players when you relyon them so much.

This season we have made a lot of changes. Not just in personnel either, but our style of football has changed with it. Last season we didn't control it enough in midfield and relied a lot on our counter attacking football and width. This season we've strengthened in centre midfield and we're playing a lot more infield now with wide players looking to come inside.

What was most disappointing for me today was the lack of width and crosses into the box. We didn't get our fullbacks forward enough. Vertonghen doesn't have the pace on the left and he is just filling in on that side. Walker was poor today and offered very little going forward. Everything was infield and played to Hulls strenths. The service to Soldado was often with his back to goal outside or on the edge of the box.

If the wingers are going to come infield then you really need those fullbacks to offer the width. Even when Townsend and Lennon switched wings they did not get on the outside enough, and when they did the delivery wasn't good enough. We're far too predictable at the moment and need to stretch teams far better. More penetration and less playing in front of teams.

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