Harry Redknapp gone

thfcsteff · Jun 20, 2012

sloth said:
I know you're not trying to defend him, just putting forward his view, but for what it is worth my view is that the real point is he was offered a contract of a certain length and remuneration, which came with a list of responsibilities which Harry was happy to sign a couple of years back. The question is, why Harry was happy with the terms then, signed up to them, but suddenly thought they weren't enough now? He had a year left on his contract, a year to convince his employers he was worthy of an extension, but he suddenly felt he was better than that. It was his prerogative of course, and nothing wrong with valuing oneself highly, but the deal was the deal, and suddenly it wasn't good enough. I can't really see what Levy could have done differently in the circumstances.

Allow me

The reason is that Harry knew he'd over-leverged himself and fucked both the England job and our job. He knows full-well that he has hit a wall with what he can do with this squad. He reached his ceiling. So, rather than take the challenge of earning a new contract by flying out the traps this season, he chose to tell the universe how nothing could be done in a year, that he could bring the title in a couple of years, etc, etc, VERY easy things to say but really, they don't stand up to close scrutiny. He knew the game was up, he knew HE'D pushed the game to breaking point, so the only way out was to "publicly" present himself as the victim of his own "success"...enter Stretford to make sure that with that, he got a chunk of wedge...if Harry REALLY believed he could've brought the title to us, (1) he'd have cemented 3rd last season with ease and (2) he'd have taken the challenge on with gusto of a year and see what happens. Truth is everyone knew for a while it was over, but Harry won't ever publicly accept any hint of blame or criticism. Harry first!

thfcsteff · Jun 20, 2012

sloth said:
Only thing that might happen is that if there is a confidentiality agreement and Harry breaches it he may find that he doesn't get his contract paid up.

We can but hope...

parklane1 · Jun 20, 2012

3Dnata said:
Plus we'd never had it so good. He's currently never had it so good either.

When he said " this is good as it gets" last season he was not tallking about Spurs, he meant " this is as good as it gets" for him. He will never get another chance at a club as big as Spurs again.

SpurSince57 · Jun 20, 2012

thfcsteff said:
Allow me

The reason is that Harry knew he'd over-leverged himself and fucked both the England job and our job. He knows full-well that he has hit a wall with what he can do with this squad. He reached his ceiling. So, rather than take the challenge of earning a new contract by flying out the traps this season, he chose to tell the universe how nothing could be done in a year, that he could bring the title in a couple of years, etc, etc, VERY easy things to say but really, they don't stand up to close scrutiny. He knew the game was up, he knew HE'D pushed the game to breaking point, so the only way out was to "publicly" present himself as the victim of his own "success"...enter Stretford to make sure that with that, he got a chunk of wedge...if Harry REALLY believed he could've brought the title to us, (1) he'd have cemented 3rd last season with ease and (2) he'd have taken the challenge on with gusto of a year and see what happens. Truth is everyone knew for a while it was over, but Harry won't ever publicly accept any hint of blame or criticism. Harry first!

You're probably right. The trouble is, this squad almost certainly reached its ceiling with him.

thfcsteff · Jun 20, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
You're probably right. The trouble is, this squad almost certainly reached its ceiling with him.

Very good point. I'd say that it's in this where the biggest problems lay. My guess (and it is no more) is that Harry's targets continued to be primarily players who were old enough to have a pedigree or who had played for him before. I do know he turned down/blew a few big money deals for players the last two years, but in truth, only Levy and Redknapp really know what the future was for them had Harry been retained/decided to stay, and I suspect your sentence is absolutely bang-on...a full list of Harry's transfer dealings would be intriguing to say the least! I suspect we'd predominantly see "safe" signings and old friends with very few "gambles" on precocious talent...you need experience for sure, and he was nailed on with Parker, but alas, we needed more...

StartingPrice · Jun 20, 2012

thfcsteff said:
Very good point. I'd say that it's in this where the biggest problems lay. My guess (and it is no more) is that Harry's targets continued to be primarily players who were old enough to have a pedigree or who had played for him before. I do know he turned down/blew a few big money deals for players the last two years, but in truth, only Levy and Redknapp really know what the future was for them had Harry been retained/decided to stay, and I suspect your sentence is absolutely bang-on...a full list of Harry's transfer dealings would be intriguing to say the least! I suspect we'd predominantly see "safe" signings and old friends with very few "gambles" on precocious talent...you need experience for sure, and he was nailed on with Parker, but alas, we needed more...

I suspect that was SS turning your post around so as to make Mr Redknapp not remotely criticised

beats1 · Jun 20, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
We took 16 points from the last 12 games. This was pretty crap in comparison to the previous 26, but altogether better than Ramos' last 12, from which we took just 6, with one win.

Yes, people do seem to forget, don't they? Any more history to rewrite?

Yea we may of not gone on a stretch of 2 points from 8 games but we were very bad

Steve bruce got sacked at the start of the season for getting 12 points from 14 games, no one complained because they 1 or 2 places above relegation, last season we took in our bad period 14 points from 14 games with 1 or 2 world class players

Also that season we got 2 points from 8 games we had after the first 18 games: 19points
This season during the last 18 games of last season: 24 points, out of these points 10, were achieved in the last 4 games when Roy was made manager

So it was clearly a bad run and at one point in the season only wolves had got less points in the calendar year than us

Spursidol · Jun 20, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
We took 16 points from the last 12 games. This was pretty crap in comparison to the previous 26, but altogether better than Ramos' last 12, from which we took just 6, with one win.

Yes, people do seem to forget, don't they? Any more history to rewrite?

25 February 2012 Arsenal A 5–2 Saha 4', Adebayor 34' (pen.) 60,106 3rd
4 March 2012 Manchester United H 1–3 Defoe 88' 36,034 3rd
10 March 2012 Everton A 1–0 – 34,992 3rd
21 March 2012 Stoke City H 1–1 Van der Vaart 90+2' 35,172 4th
24 March 2012 Chelsea A 0–0 – 41,830 4th
1 April 2012 Swansea City H 3–1 Van der Vaart 19', Adebayor 73', 86' 36,174 4th
7 April 2012 Sunderland A 0–0 – 39,335 4th
9 April 2012 Norwich City H 1–2 Defoe 33' 36,126 4th
21 April 2012 Queens Park Rangers A 1–0 – 18,021 5th

If you disregard the last couple of games and focus on the problem period its 6 points from 9 games - one win, 3 draws and 5 losses.

Relegation form. No re-writing of history

Montasura · Jun 20, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
We took 16 points from the last 12 games. This was pretty crap in comparison to the previous 26, but altogether better than Ramos' last 12, from which we took just 6, with one win.

Yes, people do seem to forget, don't they? Any more history to rewrite?

Indeed you would be correct had I simply been talking about a grand total of points. I wasn't and my point alluded to a few other glaring differences that I'll not bother to explain since you didn't bother to ask before making a poor attempt to be smart.

However, if you want to boil it down to just points alone then fine. Ramos, very obviously since Harry shoved it down our throats every 2 seconds, amassed 2 points from his last 8 games in charge at the start of 08/09. Everyone acknowledges last season's poor run began with the 5-2 drubbing by Arsenal, the first of 8 games where we managed a whopping 6 points. Not really a huge difference IMO.

Either way, I suspect the points tally had little to do with Harry's sacking tbh.

SpurSince57 · Jun 20, 2012

Spursidol said:
25 February 2012 Arsenal A 5–2 Saha 4', Adebayor 34' (pen.) 60,106 3rd
4 March 2012 Manchester United H 1–3 Defoe 88' 36,034 3rd
10 March 2012 Everton A 1–0 – 34,992 3rd
21 March 2012 Stoke City H 1–1 Van der Vaart 90+2' 35,172 4th
24 March 2012 Chelsea A 0–0 – 41,830 4th
1 April 2012 Swansea City H 3–1 Van der Vaart 19', Adebayor 73', 86' 36,174 4th
7 April 2012 Sunderland A 0–0 – 39,335 4th
9 April 2012 Norwich City H 1–2 Defoe 33' 36,126 4th
21 April 2012 Queens Park Rangers A 1–0 – 18,021 5th

If you disregard the last couple of games and focus on the problem period its 6 points from 9 games - one win, 3 draws and 5 losses.

Relegation form. No re-writing of history

You mean, be extremely selective. Why not pick our first two games of the season? We got zero points from those. That's definitely relegation form. Of course you must then disregard the fact that apart from that crap run of nine games, the rest of the season was the eighth best, points-wise, in our entire history. But let's just focus on the shit bit, shall we?

Montasura said:
Indeed you would be correct had I simply been talking about a grand total of points. I wasn't and my point alluded to a few other glaring differences that I'll not bother to explain since you didn't bother to ask before making a poor attempt to be smart.

However, if you want to boil it down to just points alone then fine. Ramos, very obviously since Harry shoved it down our throats every 2 seconds, amassed 2 points from his last 8 games in charge at the start of 08/09. Everyone acknowledges last season's poor run began with the 5-2 drubbing by Arsenal, the first of 8 games where we managed a whopping 6 points. Not really a huge difference IMO.

Either way, I suspect the points tally had little to do with Harry's sacking tbh.

No, not a huge difference. But then, you take the bad runs entirely out of their context; Ramos' began not on 23 August 2008 but on 1 January 2008, 26 games in which we averaged less than a point again. Last season we averaged 1.83 PPG, and up to the point when the wheels came off against the Goons we were going at over 2 PPG. Ramos' sorry career average was 1.17, beaten only by Ossie's 1.16.

Yes, it's a really good comparison, our most successful league manager in almost 50 years against our almost-worst, ever.

Bad runs happen, to every club. If you need that pointing out, there's very little hope for you. Last season remains one of our best-ever. If we can't celebrate that, I despair.

SpurSince57 · Jun 20, 2012

beats1 said:
Yea we may of not gone on a stretch of 2 points from 8 games but we were very bad

Steve bruce got sacked at the start of the season for getting 12 points from 14 games, no one complained because they 1 or 2 places above relegation, last season we took in our bad period 14 points from 14 games with 1 or 2 world class players

Also that season we got 2 points from 8 games we had after the first 18 games: 19points
This season during the last 18 games of last season: 24 points, out of these points 10, were achieved in the last 4 games when Roy was made manager

So it was clearly a bad run and at one point in the season only wolves had got less points in the calendar year than us

For a quarter of the season. For the other three-quarters we were as good as we've been in nearly 50 years. Boofucfkinghoo.

StartingPrice · Jun 20, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
You mean, be extremely selective. Why not pick our first two games of the season? We got zero points from those. That's definitely relegation form. Of course you must then disregard the fact that apart from that crap run of nine games, the rest of the season was the eighth best, points-wise, in our entire history. But let's just focus on the shit bit, shall we?

Oh, come on, SS...there is a very clear and very logical period for looking at the period after the afterglow of 'Arry not getting sent to klinck, and the honeymoon therein, but before the announcement of WOy as England manager, as a unitary whole.

SpurSince57 · Jun 20, 2012

thfcsteff said:
Very good point. I'd say that it's in this where the biggest problems lay. My guess (and it is no more) is that Harry's targets continued to be primarily players who were old enough to have a pedigree or who had played for him before. I do know he turned down/blew a few big money deals for players the last two years, but in truth, only Levy and Redknapp really know what the future was for them had Harry been retained/decided to stay, and I suspect your sentence is absolutely bang-on...a full list of Harry's transfer dealings would be intriguing to say the least! I suspect we'd predominantly see "safe" signings and old friends with very few "gambles" on precocious talent...you need experience for sure, and he was nailed on with Parker, but alas, we needed more...

Quite.

I can buy the idea that Harry's in his mid-60s (even older than me!) and thus possibly not the man to see the long-term vision through; after all, he was brought in solely to get us out of the shit those fuckwits Ramos and Comolli had landed us in. He succeeded not only in doing that, but in getting us to a level we haven't reached since the early 60s. Great. He's exceeded expectations to a very considerable degree. England want him (well, obviously they didn't, but you go with the flow), so what do you, as Dear Leader, do?

What I find odd is that the England thing was the perfect opportunity to ditch him. Instead—so we're told, anyway—Levy offered him a four-year deal to keep him out of the FA's grasp. So, if he was worth a four-year deal a few months ago, why wasn't he worth it last week?

beats1 · Jun 20, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
For a quarter of the season. For the other three-quarters we were as good as we've been in nearly 50 years. Boofucfkinghoo.

24 points from 18 games is half a season and 14 points from 14 games is over a third of a season

I must admit I wanted Harry to stay but that period was terrible and we looked vulnerable ever since we entered december but I guess onwards and upwards now. Lets just hope the replacement is a improvement

Spursidol · Jun 20, 2012

StartingPrice said:
Oh, come on, SS...there is a very clear and very logical period for looking at the period after the afterglow of 'Arry not getting sent to klinck, and the honeymoon therein, but before the announcement of WOy as England manager, as a unitary whole.

Precisely right.

Period when HR seemed to be talking to the media about that England jiob from dawn until dusk - and maybe his diverted attention is reflected in those results.

SpurSince57 · Jun 20, 2012

StartingPrice said:
Oh, come on, SS...there is a very clear and very logical period for looking at the period after the afterglow of 'Arry not getting sent to klinck, and the honeymoon therein, but before the announcement of WOy as England manager, as a unitary whole.

Yes, there is, and only an idiot (or Harry) would claim that his mind was at times elsewhere. I know mine would have been. On the other hand, Arsenal at the Immigrants, United anywhere, and a resurgent Everton at Goodison were games only the most sanguine or deluded would have backed us for, certainly as an accumulator, and the Immigrants fiasco was largely down to sloppiness from BAE and, of all people, King.

Maybe we should look at the season as a unitary whole?

SpurSince57 · Jun 20, 2012

beats1 said:
24 points from 18 games is half a season and 14 points from 14 games is over a third of a season

I must admit I wanted Harry to stay but that period was terrible and we looked vulnerable ever since we entered december but I guess onwards and upwards now. Lets just hope the replacement is a improvement

Splendidly well-calculated. I really couldn't have done better myself.

What the fuck are you on about? Seriously?

beats1 · Jun 21, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
Splendidly well-calculated. I really couldn't have done better myself.

What the fuck are you on about? Seriously?

You said we played the best football we have for 50 years for 3 quarters of the season

Spursidol · Jun 21, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
Yes, there is, and only an idiot (or Harry) would claim that his mind was at times elsewhere. quote]

/quote]

Thank you for agreeing that there is a good reason to focus on that period and question the results of 6 points in 9 games and HR's focus over that time period.

HR has not as far as I read

StartingPrice · Jun 21, 2012

SpurSince57 said:
Yes, there is, and only an idiot (or Harry) would claim that his mind was at times elsewhere. I know mine would have been. On the other hand, Arsenal at the Immigrants, United anywhere, and a resurgent Everton at Goodison were games only the most sanguine or deluded would have backed us for, certainly as an accumulator, and the Immigrants fiasco was largely down to sloppiness from BAE and, of all people, King.

Maybe we should look at the season as a unitary whole?

I have done - frequently. That is why I give him credit for what he achieved and stated in almost every post, before he was dismissed, that I would have no trepidation with him being manager in August, and, since his dismissal, that I wouldn't have, likewise, had any trepidation with him being our manager in August. That is why I stated several times that I believed he earned the right to lead us into the CL. That was why I said that if wanted to work his gonads off in the next year to earn a contract extension, that was fine by me. That is why whenever the Redknapp haters talk their nonsense, even now, I will correct them where and when they are distorting facts, or downright fibbing. So, yes, I have looked at the season as a unitary whole.

But you insistence on resisting any criticism of Mr Redknapp, based solely on final league position, is looking more and more obtuse. He has strnegths and weaknesses, just like any manager.
Why would only the most deluded or sanguine of fans have backed us to beat the Goons or Everton. We had by far the better of recent history against the Goons, including winning there last season, we were in the midst of a grat run, whereas they were quite clearly fragaile of confidence due to their incredibly poor form and performances. And we have a good recent record at Goodison, too. It's funny, because the main culprits that I remember from the Scumerates fiasco are Saha/Adebayor, and then Bale - the former because Saha received the ball on the halfway line and instead of looking across to see Bale tearing down the flank in acres of space, he passed to Adebayor on the edge of the area, surrounded by Goons players, and he, again, instead of looking across and seeing Bale still unmarked and with no defenders ahead of him, running into the corner of the area, decided to shot, even though the was surrounded and Chesny was covering his angles (and that would have made it 3 - nil); the latter because, for the first Goons goal, Bale was marking Sagna (whose a fecking midget), and yet Sagna got his head on the ball because Bale waved a foot pathetically in the general direction of it, rather than attacking it with his head (in which case he would have surely won it) - probably worrying about his fecking barnet

I think you need to accept, there are plenty of reasons to be grateful to Mr Redknapp, including for much of last season; but, by the same token, there are several legitimate beefs with him.

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