Redknapp wants 'bold' transfers

Jonny_Moffett said:

Don't think Levy has ever been the problem. Harry cannot find and attract top players. I don't hold a great deal of hope for this summer. Harry is going to be spending most of it in a BBC studio in Kiev. Let's just hope we can pull something out of the fire before the Euros start.

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Salford. The BBC spent so much on moving there that a) they don't have the money left to send dozens of people to Poland and the Ukraine and b) they need to use it to actually get something out of it.

I think he will get money to spend this summer. My concern is not whether or not he will buy good players, I'm sure he will because I think despite popular belief he can spot a player (just usually he finds good quality at low price) but what he will do with the players once they are signed. If we could improve some of our weaknesses on the pitch we probably wouldn't need to add a lot. If we can combine an improvement in players with an improvement in strategy then we could be a monster next year.

robin09 said:

​

Manager .... ... Club ....... Purchased .... ... Sold .... ..... ... Nett ... .... .... Average​

​

18th Harry Redknapp Spurs £145,700,000 £136,750,000 £8,950,000 £2,237,500​

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/managers-comparisons.html

IF true, this is an interesting statistic. Harry has spent £9m more than he's recouped. I don't know how you could look at those statistic, and not be impressed with us getting 4th and 5th followed by 3rd or 4th this season. He's 18th in managers net spend. 18th!!!! With the exception of Wenger, that's a pretty good return.

We have to give Harry money to spend. It would be a win-win for every tottenham fan, pro or anti Harry.

If he buys well and strengthens the team, we should finish 3rd-4th next season, at least. As spurs fans, we'd all be happy with that.

If he spends badly, he'll weaken the team and will be out of a job. I'd be happy because as a backer of Harry, I would at least feel he was given every opportunity. Those spurs fans who are anti-Harry would be satisfied that he'd been sacked for underachieving. It's a win win! Give Harry a warchest this summer !

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The bit not included in your analysis is that Spurs had a squad good enough to finish fifth twice adjusted by a large spurge of money spent after that - some good (eg Modric), some not so well (eg Bentley) - allowing Harry to sell some and buy players he wanted, so Spurs net expenditure over a longer term period is not 18th but a lot higher.

Suggest you look over the time period from Aanesen onwards - but also note that Levy accepted the sale of Carrick for £16m or so (after buying him for a lot less) in order to buy Berbatov (for £10.5m) who in turn was sold later for £30m. So player trading to generate a fund to buy better players was certainly part of Levy's plan to generate the squad (best in 20 or 30 years - if not 50 years) Spurs have now.

The obvious is clear to see we can't stand still. Newcastle are back in the reckoning ourselves Arsenal Chelsea ManU/C pretty sure Liverpool wlll get better. Levy does have to be BOLD and spend wisely in the transfer market.

We need
2 strikers of the ability to play the lone role.
1 GK
maybe 1 LB
1 special player that can play in the hole chellenge Van De Vaart
2 wingers.

I want a bold change of manager.

Spurrific said:

Why are Chelsea being ignored in the race for 4th? If they win both their games and us and Newcastle don't win, won't they finish 4th?

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Because they are a bunch of foul s!

sloth said:

Anyone got any thoughts as to what 'bold' actually means? As in which way should we 'bold'? Splash the cash? Or something else?

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I thought it was the new club sponsors - the washing powder manufacturers. Aitch wants someone to iron some transfers for 'BOLD' over the Aurasma logos

I think Liverpool will be more up for the game tomorrow than Chelsea, Chelsea will surely rest a few players tomorrow.

When I read the title, I thought he meant he wanted some more players like Friedel.....

Sloth makes some good points in his post above regarding transfer prices versus wages for 'established players'.

Misfit and AngerManagement also make valid points regarding Harry - both that he was brought in as a 'firefighter' after Ramos who nobody expected to take us further and that in January Levy could not have been confident in Harry staying due to the court case (and might even have worried about Harry's health after a heart bypass and wanting to be England Manager) which might have swayed him to not spend too much money in January but to save it for a bigger Summer splurge. IMO Levy and Harry will sort out a compromise after the season is over which either means Levy has the confidence in Harry to spend or Harry will be replaced : I think we leave it up to them both to sort out that situation, hopefully early.

IMO Levy has a multi strategy to improve the playing squad which includes :

a) Bringing players through the academy and buying young talent (eg Walker, Naugton ) who are further developed. The cost of that system can be seen by not only the investment in new training facilities but by the wage costs of probably about 40 Professionals (reserves) and next season 30 Academy players and all thgeir coaches etc. With that cost base, I would expect Levy will hope to see about 2 players a season joining the first team squad (eg Walker and Livermore this season), maybe Caulker, Naughton, Smith, Button and Townsend next season to realise a return on that investment. Not all these players will succeed so we might see one of those two promoted to first team squad each year only staying for a year or two before departing. We do have a pretty good conveyor belt going, so after those I have suggested for next season there are the likes of Kane, Luongo, Stewart, Veltjkovic, Gomelt et al coming through - some will make it, some will not but there are others who develop later who come into contention. Over a 10 year period starting from this season we might get to 50% of the first team squad coming through the Spurs system (Barcelona have almost 75% so its not totally fanciful). Those who do not make it may be sold on and help defray costs of the academy system.

b) Buying established players or near established players (eg Leandro Damaio). Very expensive in terms of transfer fees and wages, but they should give an immediate return by making an impact - of course the risk is that they fail. Levy will and has taken risks in the past, and imo he will invest in the Summer in maybe 2 or 3 established players (after that the budget become stretched) agreed with Harry, provided that the position with Harry is acceptable to Levy, if not he may buy fewer.

c) Buying less established players - this is where we have the opportunity to buy lesser known players, some of which will make an immediate impact (finding another Berbatov or even a Cisse not on the wish list of bigger clubs would be fantastic) and where the transfer fees and wages would be far more affordable and they would increase in value with us. Unfortunately we have not seen much of that recently - not sure if that is down to Spurs scouting or a manager who doesn't like the scouts recommendations (Eg Harry said about Cisse at Newcastele - my guys looked at him but we didn't pursue it). Hopefully Levy will resolve this either by reviving the scouting system (re-hiring Graham Carr from Newcastle seems a good plan) or asking the manager to be more open and not think only of buying established premiership players (including those with bus passes such as Nelsen).

d) Whilst a little critical of the number of older players (including Gallas, Nelsen, Freidel, Cudicini, Saha) all probably on high wages who are coming to the end of their playing career that wwe have accumulated, there is certainly a good deal of value in getting a couple of such players in the squad by taking players at the end of their contracts - they can be cheap and offer valuable experience both on and off the field (players like Edgar Davids come to mind). However at present, we seem to have too many.

e) I think we also actively look at players coming out of contract or in the last year of their contract to see if they are players we want. Given signing on fees and high wages they are sometimes not as cheap as some people seem to think.

f) At present Levy does not seem to be using a major player trading strategy (ie selling some of our best players at top prices to buy in lower priced emerging talent).

So IMO this summer we might acquire say 3 established players (probably either one or two strikers and a CB), lets say £50m plus retain players coming into the squad such as Caulker, Naughton etc - and perhaps we can also get one or two less established players or players coming out of contract s. In total maybe 5 or 6 new players - but their names may depend upon CL football.

However, as always we have a number of new players to move on (to free up high wages and make room in the 25 man squad as we have too many players already) - probably Bentley, Jenas, Gio, Gomes (although Harry compliminented him a week ago), Corluka, Defoe (442 striker, last chance to get a decent fee as he is 29), Bassong (assuming we buy another CB).

Kingellesar said:

I think Liverpool will be more up for the game tomorrow than Chelsea, Chelsea will surely rest a few players tomorrow.

When I read the title, I thought he meant he wanted some more players like Friedel.....

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Harry does

sloth said:

I suspect that we'll have similar increases from Liverpool and our other four rivals for the top four, but not from clubs beneath us. Hopefully David Conn will be producing the 2010/11 version of his annual look at PL football finances very soon (he usually does it at the end of each season), so we'll have a clearer picture.

I think the point HappySpurs was making (and I agree with him; I suspect you do too), is that backing a manager financially has to be looked at in more than simply transfer outlay. we're amongst the top net spenders on transfers in the PL, and yet that £16m p/a is dwarfed by the £95m p/a we spend on wages. Arsenal are the lowest net spenders on transfers in the PL, and yet their wage bill of £115m or so means they spend far more each year on players than we do. In that light we can understand how Harry made a profit on player sales whilst at Portsmouth, but they went out of business due to the wages they paid.

The fact is that player purchases is not expenditure so much as investment, we're merely swapping one kind of asset (hard cash), for another (a players contract), and it's in the management of those investments, as well as knowing what to invest in, that Levy excels, but it's also this which brings him into conflict with fans, who frankly don't take any notice of the football finances and just want us to buy every shiny player that makes eyes in our direction.

Personally, this is what I expect from fans, either they're not bright enough, or more usually simply don't give enough of a shit, to bother with this kind of nuance (and anyway, why should they? Everyone supports their team in a different way, and some don't want to be reasonable!!), but one of the several things which gets my goat about Redknapp is that he's a pro, he must understand this, so when he plays dumb, but still makes noises in the press which suggest he needs to be backed, and at other times suggests that it's the lack of backing which sees him under-achieve (or over-achieve despite) then it's fair to assume this is classic Harry blame deflection/credit attraction bull-shit. The worst of it is however, when he targets players which will harm our future finances, but which cumulative impact may not be felt until after he's departed. This is looking after numero uno at the expense of the club, and it allows him to shine in the media's glowing words whatever: Harry wasn't backed even though he was a "Free transfer"/ "it wasn't Harry's fault the club ran out of money, the chairman should have exercised some restraint".

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This is a very good post and an interesting read

Spursidol said:

Sloth makes some good points in his post above regarding transfer prices versus wages for 'established players'.

Misfit and AngerManagement also make valid points regarding Harry - both that he was brought in as a 'firefighter' after Ramos who nobody expected to take us further and that in January Levy could not have been confident in Harry staying due to the court case (and might even have worried about Harry's health after a heart bypass and wanting to be England Manager) which might have swayed him to not spend too much money in January but to save it for a bigger Summer splurge. IMO Levy and Harry will sort out a compromise after the season is over which either means Levy has the confidence in Harry to spend or Harry will be replaced : I think we leave it up to them both to sort out that situation, hopefully early.

IMO Levy has a multi strategy to improve the playing squad which includes :

a) Bringing players through the academy and buying young talent (eg Walker, Naugton ) who are further developed. The cost of that system can be seen by not only the investment in new training facilities but by the wage costs of probably about 40 Professionals (reserves) and next season 30 Academy players and all thgeir coaches etc. With that cost base, I would expect Levy will hope to see about 2 players a season joining the first team squad (eg Walker and Livermore this season), maybe Caulker, Naughton, Smith, Button and Townsend next season to realise a return on that investment. Not all these players will succeed so we might see one of those two promoted to first team squad each year only staying for a year or two before departing. We do have a pretty good conveyor belt going, so after those I have suggested for next season there are the likes of Kane, Luongo, Stewart, Veltjkovic, Gomelt et al coming through - some will make it, some will not but there are others who develop later who come into contention. Over a 10 year period starting from this season we might get to 50% of the first team squad coming through the Spurs system (Barcelona have almost 75% so its not totally fanciful). Those who do not make it may be sold on and help defray costs of the academy system.

b) Buying established players or near established players (eg Leandro Damaio). Very expensive in terms of transfer fees and wages, but they should give an immediate return by making an impact - of course the risk is that they fail. Levy will and has taken risks in the past, and imo he will invest in the Summer in maybe 2 or 3 established players (after that the budget become stretched) agreed with Harry, provided that the position with Harry is acceptable to Levy, if not he may buy fewer.

c) Buying less established players - this is where we have the opportunity to buy lesser known players, some of which will make an immediate impact (finding another Berbatov or even a Cisse not on the wish list of bigger clubs would be fantastic) and where the transfer fees and wages would be far more affordable and they would increase in value with us. Unfortunately we have not seen much of that recently - not sure if that is down to Spurs scouting or a manager who doesn't like the scouts recommendations (Eg Harry said about Cisse at Newcastele - my guys looked at him but we didn't pursue it). Hopefully Levy will resolve this either by reviving the scouting system (re-hiring Graham Carr from Newcastle seems a good plan) or asking the manager to be more open and not think only of buying established premiership players (including those with bus passes such as Nelsen).

d) Whilst a little critical of the number of older players (including Gallas, Nelsen, Freidel, Cudicini, Saha) all probably on high wages who are coming to the end of their playing career that wwe have accumulated, there is certainly a good deal of value in getting a couple of such players in the squad by taking players at the end of their contracts - they can be cheap and offer valuable experience both on and off the field (players like Edgar Davids come to mind). However at present, we seem to have too many.

e) I think we also actively look at players coming out of contract or in the last year of their contract to see if they are players we want. Given signing on fees and high wages they are sometimes not as cheap as some people seem to think.

f) At present Levy does not seem to be using a major player trading strategy (ie selling some of our best players at top prices to buy in lower priced emerging talent).

So IMO this summer we might acquire say 3 established players (probably either one or two strikers and a CB), lets say £50m plus retain players coming into the squad such as Caulker, Naughton etc - and perhaps we can also get one or two less established players or players coming out of contract s. In total maybe 5 or 6 new players - but their names may depend upon CL football.

However, as always we have a number of new players to move on (to free up high wages and make room in the 25 man squad as we have too many players already) - probably Bentley, Jenas, Gio, Gomes (although Harry compliminented him a week ago), Corluka, Defoe (442 striker, last chance to get a decent fee as he is 29), Bassong (assuming we buy another CB).

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Now I get why people take the piss out of me and my long posts.....they're not so easy to read

That being said.......I have read this, and it's very well written and reasoned

Thumbs up

AngerManagement said:

Now I get why people take the piss out of me and my long posts.....they're not so easy to read

That being said.......I have read this, and it's very well written and reasoned

Thumbs up

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Thanks - I know what you mean about length and hesitated before writing. However imo its better sometimes to explain why a 'spend lots of money' post is not the only solution, and say what Levy seems to be doing.

Spursidol said:

Thanks - I know what you mean about length and hesitated before writing. However imo its better sometimes to explain why a 'spend lots of money' post is not the only solution, and say what Levy seems to be doing.

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And I agree with you - I have made long posts myself trying to explain this - Levy has invested a huge amount of money on the youth set up, and will be looking for returns. And that we should only be seeing the rerturns on this policy starting over the next few years.
I honestly believe that if it wasn't likely to furnish results, Levy would have just scrapped the whole academy system years ago, and concentrated on buying other teams finished product at 16/17 YO.

Spursidol said:

The bit not included in your analysis is that Spurs had a squad good enough to finish fifth twice adjusted by a large spurge of money spent after that - some good (eg Modric), some not so well (eg Bentley) - allowing Harry to sell some and buy players he wanted, so Spurs net expenditure over a longer term period is not 18th but a lot higher.

Suggest you look over the time period from Aanesen onwards - but also note that Levy accepted the sale of Carrick for £16m or so (after buying him for a lot less) in order to buy Berbatov (for £10.5m) who in turn was sold later for £30m. So player trading to generate a fund to buy better players was certainly part of Levy's plan to generate the squad (best in 20 or 30 years - if not 50 years) Spurs have now.

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I was putting into context Harry's quotes for wanting to spend 'boldly'. He hasn't had an opportunity to do that since he came to us.

I fully accept he inherited a good squad of players to choose from. But he hasn't really added to it in the last 2 years. The squad is quite thin now. We still have a very good first 11/12 players, but not beyond that. All the other top clubshave good squads, yet they will still all upgrade this summer. It's an arms race, you can't sit still while other teams improve.

Spursidol said:

Thanks - I know what you mean about length and hesitated before writing. However imo its better sometimes to explain why a 'spend lots of money' post is not the only solution, and say what Levy seems to be doing.

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you're preaching to the choir my friend, my posts frequently become essays lol

robin09 said:

I was putting into context Harry's quotes for wanting to spend 'boldly'. He hasn't had an opportunity to do that since he came to us.

I fully accept he inherited a good squad of players to choose from. But he hasn't really added to it in the last 2 years. The squad is quite thin now. We still have a very good first 11/12 players, but not beyond that. All the other top clubshave good squads, yet they will still all upgrade this summer. It's an arms race, you can't sit still while other teams improve.

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When he first came in he spent something like about £80m on players. Agreed not that much since - although he has said Levy has backed him on several players, so think it not lack of will but maybe choosing players where there was too much competitition and Spurs didn't win that particular race.

Am expecting some spend this summer as you will see from other posts - but we cannot outspend other teams so we need to be smarter in our buying rather than bolder.

It's the spine of the team that needs to be the main focus. New GK, new CB, Midfield we are sorted IF everyone stays, then CF wether it's Ade or someone else.

double0 said:

The obvious is clear to see we can't stand still. Newcastle are back in the reckoning ourselves Arsenal Chelsea ManU/C pretty sure Liverpool wlll get better. Levy does have to be BOLD and spend wisely in the transfer market.

We need
2 strikers of the ability to play the lone role.
1 GK
maybe 1 LB
1 special player that can play in the hole chellenge Van De Vaart
2 wingers.

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You forgot to mention a new centre back, lol

With Liverpool's fall from grace, how about Agger or Skyrtel?

Next season I'd like to have Kaboul, Vertonghen, A/S, Caulker and Dawson (if he's ever fit) as our centre backs. Vertonghen also being cover for Ekotto. Bring back Naughton to cover Walker.

Spursidol said:

When he first came in he spent something like about £80m on players. Agreed not that much since - although he has said Levy has backed him on several players, so think it not lack of will but maybe choosing players where there was too much competitition and Spurs didn't win that particular race.

Am expecting some spend this summer as you will see from other posts - but we cannot outspend other teams so we need to be smarter in our buying rather than bolder.

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And this goes back to Levy's Modus Operandii. Even under Arnesen/Comolli when we were seemingly freely spending, we weren't

04/05 in £16m - out £11m
05/06, in £34m - out £17m
06/07, in £48m - out £25m
07/08, in £32 - out £15
08/09
summer - in £66m - out £67m.

so we can see that he allows spending, as long as a portion is recovered (68% over those years)

and then Harry takes over
January - in £42m - out £0
09/10 - in £41 - out £26
10/11 - in £12 - out £7 (but £6 of this is the sell-on value of Bent)
11/12 - in £8m - out £40 million (but £28 million of this happened on the last day of the window)

He spent lavishly at the beginning and sold a bit but not enough. Going into the final day of the transfer window last summer, Harry has spend during his time £103m and only recovered £45 (43% - up almost 9% on Bent's sell value. Lucky)

Then Pavs, Palacios and Crouch go for £28 million and suddenly Harry has recovered a vast amount of his spending. Now he goes from 43% to 70% of his purchases offset by sales.

So we can assign blame as we are wont to due over these things, but Levy wants money brought in to cover most of the money spent. I would say he's cool with about 65%. And because Harry had been unable to offload talent for a stretch (this is during the financial crisis so bad luck), he wasn't getting much. Now that he's back on Levy's terms, I would think that Harry has £15 plus sells this summer, possibly a little more if we make CL.

Economics is a science when politicians don't use it and one that we shouldn't ignore.

lots of players needed in summer thats all i know.

goalkeeper, center half, 2 wingers, 2 strikers (at least) and thats just for starters.