PLTuck
Eternal Optimist
- Aug 22, 2006
- 16,042
- 33,460
He liked them when they were kind to him. *raises 3 fingers*
Where do we go now?
- Thread starter sidford
- Start date
He liked them when they were kind to him. *raises 3 fingers*
wrd
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2014
- 13,603
- 58,005
I think we have made some really bad decisions over the last 3 years, that's no secret.
We went from a squad which looked like it had all the pieces in 2016 to 2018 where we began putting square pegs in round holes and then come summer 2019 we tried a course correction which is where it all went wrong.
I think we had a manager who was clearly exasperated by the circumstances he had to deal with in his final season and he chose to go down a route in terms of a particular method of playing he believed was correct which began the erosion of his relationship with the squad.
We made signings based on this particular style and to Levy's credit he put up the money to back the manager in this style but injuries along with the old guards distaste for that style meant that we never actually witnessed what the manager had in mind. It sounds to me like the players regret the attitude they took with Poch on that front in hindsight especially with regards to what was to come after.
What we've then done is made the error of hiring a manager who on reputation seemed like the logical decision because he's one of the best of all time. I think most of us fans were keen to make a go of it, I personally focused on the attacking players we had and the possibility of setting up the way Madrid did, I think as a fan you always want to try and look for the positives.
However when it comes to Levy making the decision to hire Jose, he didn't take into account the foundations left by Poch, he didn't take into account he just spent 100 million on midfielders that Jose would never sign himself. He didn't take into account the way in which fans see the ethos of how a Tottenham team is meant to play.
So what has happened is we've had 18 months of going in the wrong direction, 18 months of not utilising the players we have at our disposals main skillsets with the exception of Hojbjerg and Son (Who were then run into the ground). Kane can play in system in the world so that was never going to be a problem but the rest of the team have suffered because of that poor decision. Yes a lot of this squad are not good enough and need to be moved on but over the last 18 months we have been less than the sum of our parts and that is the complete opposite of what is expected of a manager under the stewardship of ENIC. They're expected to perform beyond the level of the make up of the squad, let alone when we've spent 100 million on a pair of midfielders.
So my point is this for where we go from here; I believe that it will not take too much to get us back to the level we were in Poch's final full season if we hire a manager who is best suited to utilising the midfielders that we signed. So obviously not to the peak of where Poch got us but I'd say about the level we were before the start of 19/20 season.
We have signed 4 players who have thoroughly underwhelmed; Ndombele, Lo Celso, Reguilon and Bergwijn. I think Ndombele was having a reasonable season (still below what we hoped) up until the last couple of months where it has gone very wrong, the rest on the whole have had bright little periods but for the most part have not consistently got to where we expect.
I believe within those players we have enough quality to where if we sought a manager who would be able to incorporate those midfielders into a system which best uses their strengths, we'll suddenly see a real upturn in our overall football. They need to reinvigorate the other 2 also. So for me, it's not the end of the world where we are but we're at a pivotal moment where we need to make the best use of the money we've invested over the last couple of seasons.
If they can do that with that quartet and then we're adding ontop of that the likes of Kane, Son, Hojbjerg and Possibly Lloris. Suddenly that's 7 players to build a team around. If we can continue to develop Rodon then we're only literally a few signings away from a competent team again. So what I'm trying to get across is, there is a way for this to turn around very quickly and undo the 18 months of heading in the wrong direction. We need those players we've signed to take some personal responsibility and start showing why we signed them but we need a manager to give them the platform to do that.
Not to mention that one thing Jose did brilliantly for us was take care of the youth. We have Skipp back who I think it's going to be a revelation, We have Sessegnon, who hopefully can be integrated better. We have Scarlett who supposedly could be actually getting minutes next season such is his progression and to a smaller extent Devine. So there's elements there that for me mean that yes next season is a transitional season but there's enough elements there to where we have a foundation to build upon.
We have a squad of 28 players or so, I think it'll be extremely difficult because ideally you'd sell about 8-10 or those and replace with 3 real quality additions but Covid is going to make that difficult. We really need Levy to earn his money on navigating that, that's how he starts to remedy the fuck ups of the last 18 months (I'm completely ignoring the ESL debacle in this post).
We went from a squad which looked like it had all the pieces in 2016 to 2018 where we began putting square pegs in round holes and then come summer 2019 we tried a course correction which is where it all went wrong.
I think we had a manager who was clearly exasperated by the circumstances he had to deal with in his final season and he chose to go down a route in terms of a particular method of playing he believed was correct which began the erosion of his relationship with the squad.
We made signings based on this particular style and to Levy's credit he put up the money to back the manager in this style but injuries along with the old guards distaste for that style meant that we never actually witnessed what the manager had in mind. It sounds to me like the players regret the attitude they took with Poch on that front in hindsight especially with regards to what was to come after.
What we've then done is made the error of hiring a manager who on reputation seemed like the logical decision because he's one of the best of all time. I think most of us fans were keen to make a go of it, I personally focused on the attacking players we had and the possibility of setting up the way Madrid did, I think as a fan you always want to try and look for the positives.
However when it comes to Levy making the decision to hire Jose, he didn't take into account the foundations left by Poch, he didn't take into account he just spent 100 million on midfielders that Jose would never sign himself. He didn't take into account the way in which fans see the ethos of how a Tottenham team is meant to play.
So what has happened is we've had 18 months of going in the wrong direction, 18 months of not utilising the players we have at our disposals main skillsets with the exception of Hojbjerg and Son (Who were then run into the ground). Kane can play in system in the world so that was never going to be a problem but the rest of the team have suffered because of that poor decision. Yes a lot of this squad are not good enough and need to be moved on but over the last 18 months we have been less than the sum of our parts and that is the complete opposite of what is expected of a manager under the stewardship of ENIC. They're expected to perform beyond the level of the make up of the squad, let alone when we've spent 100 million on a pair of midfielders.
So my point is this for where we go from here; I believe that it will not take too much to get us back to the level we were in Poch's final full season if we hire a manager who is best suited to utilising the midfielders that we signed. So obviously not to the peak of where Poch got us but I'd say about the level we were before the start of 19/20 season.
We have signed 4 players who have thoroughly underwhelmed; Ndombele, Lo Celso, Reguilon and Bergwijn. I think Ndombele was having a reasonable season (still below what we hoped) up until the last couple of months where it has gone very wrong, the rest on the whole have had bright little periods but for the most part have not consistently got to where we expect.
I believe within those players we have enough quality to where if we sought a manager who would be able to incorporate those midfielders into a system which best uses their strengths, we'll suddenly see a real upturn in our overall football. They need to reinvigorate the other 2 also. So for me, it's not the end of the world where we are but we're at a pivotal moment where we need to make the best use of the money we've invested over the last couple of seasons.
If they can do that with that quartet and then we're adding ontop of that the likes of Kane, Son, Hojbjerg and Possibly Lloris. Suddenly that's 7 players to build a team around. If we can continue to develop Rodon then we're only literally a few signings away from a competent team again. So what I'm trying to get across is, there is a way for this to turn around very quickly and undo the 18 months of heading in the wrong direction. We need those players we've signed to take some personal responsibility and start showing why we signed them but we need a manager to give them the platform to do that.
Not to mention that one thing Jose did brilliantly for us was take care of the youth. We have Skipp back who I think it's going to be a revelation, We have Sessegnon, who hopefully can be integrated better. We have Scarlett who supposedly could be actually getting minutes next season such is his progression and to a smaller extent Devine. So there's elements there that for me mean that yes next season is a transitional season but there's enough elements there to where we have a foundation to build upon.
We have a squad of 28 players or so, I think it'll be extremely difficult because ideally you'd sell about 8-10 or those and replace with 3 real quality additions but Covid is going to make that difficult. We really need Levy to earn his money on navigating that, that's how he starts to remedy the fuck ups of the last 18 months (I'm completely ignoring the ESL debacle in this post).
Ron Burgundy
SC Supporter
- Jun 19, 2008
- 7,765
- 23,477
I really hate to say this, but I've never felt so indifferent about where we go next
I can't see us being anywhere near a challenge for the top 4, let alone any trophies. But there's no way we go down.
Maybe it'll be nice to just try and enjoy the games, rather than getting so emotionally involved in the outcome?
But seriously, I just feel really disengaged
I can't see us being anywhere near a challenge for the top 4, let alone any trophies. But there's no way we go down.
Maybe it'll be nice to just try and enjoy the games, rather than getting so emotionally involved in the outcome?
But seriously, I just feel really disengaged
I feel exactly the same, I just can't be bothered with us anymore, I just feel very deflated and uninterested. It's been said to death on here, but I don't trust Levy at all anymore to make the right decisions to get us out of this mess. I remember someone said when we appointed Mourinho this was Levy's last roll of the dice, yet here he still is, still in charge, still making rubbish choices. and getting away with it because we're stuck with him.
I should have felt excited about the final on Sunday, lets face it, it is quite a rare thing now, but I felt nothing. I could barely be bothered to look at the score on my phone, it got to 80 minutes at 0-0, but even then I would have bet my house on City still scoring, and sure enough. Tottenham never fail to let us down. A while back that defeat would have made me cry with disappointment, now I just roll my eyes. I remember the feeling I had after the CL final, even after the heartbreak of the loss, I really felt the club would show some determination to really kick on and get back there again the next year, as it was so wonderful seeing our name everywhere, and being talked about in such a positive way. Instead the opposite happened and it's just been a complete downward spiral since.
I'm so fed up with us I even deleted the official website on Instagram, because I was sick to the back teeth of seeing all these happy players in training and getting the ?or a ? as if they are going to do something great, then the next game is the same rubbish display that seems to be a weekly occurrence now.
I don't really think we have anywhere to go now tbh, I fully expect us to be a mid table team, floating in and around the 6/7/8 kind of positions. Because like everyone else has said, a new manager won't make a bit of difference with Levy still being in charge of all the footballing decisions. We'll forever be stuck with players like Winks, Dier, Sissoko etc because he'll want silly money for them that nobody will pay. Tbh I really do pity whoever the new manager is because I think it must be a nightmare working with someone like Levy. I read it all the time how smart Levy is meant to be, and of course he is, when it's comes to business, but when it's comes to football, what he knows you could write on the back of a stamp, so how can we all see it, but he can't?! And if it's just a case of him being stubborn then he's nothing but a fool as he'll only take our club further down and before long, one of the best stadiums in Europe will be sitting half empty, I wonder what he would do then? *sigh*
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EastLondonYid
Well-Known Member
- Jan 26, 2010
- 7,837
- 16,145
Watching Chelsea heading towards the CL final , playing scintillating football hurts,
The football they play compared to ours is like two different sports.
The football they play compared to ours is like two different sports.
All this talk of fining the club via EUFA or points deduction or transfer embargo's is to me a nonsense surely talking about and trying to get something in motion and threatening to do something that does not come to fruition is surely a legal minefield and all the clubs involved would have a legal field day .Thats not to say that the plans were nothing but despicable and disgraceful .
As I say legally that is another matter and Levy would take them to the cleaners .
Crimes in the mind and suggesting clubs should breakaway is not an actual crime .
As I say legally that is another matter and Levy would take them to the cleaners .
Crimes in the mind and suggesting clubs should breakaway is not an actual crime .
Amo
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2013
- 15,806
- 31,498
I think they're going to be a bit smarter and impose new domestic FA and Uefa laws on future antics on the 12 clubs. Most of whom would probably have no scope to protest too much after their PR-speak concessions that their actions were wrong.
That alone would see the influence of big clubs chopped down to size with no threat of secession being viable or credible again. They've fucked themselves in the foot.
Metalhead
But that's a debate for another thread.....
- Nov 24, 2013
- 25,510
- 38,665
It's been a shit season and we still don't have a clue who the next manager will be. You might feel more
Yeah, totally agree. I think that points deductions are already off the table anyway - that's just penalising fans, many of whom were never in favour of it.
The punishment will be to the fans anyway no matter what they do, but i think they will be careful about giving any big punishment, if the punishment is to big, they (ESL clubs) will just be more incentivized go through with it anyway.
shelfboy68
Well-Known Member
- Jun 14, 2008
- 14,566
- 19,651
Exactly how many of us feel mate we have gone backwards rather than kick on, Sunday's result was obvious before a ball was kicked so many are disalusioned with the club and where it is or isn't going.
Metalhead
But that's a debate for another thread.....
- Nov 24, 2013
- 25,510
- 38,665
True - either directly or indirectly. One that was talked about was banning relevant chairmen from PL meetings. That would be an example of something more indirect.
topper
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2008
- 3,806
- 16,254
Especially as it was only a couple of years back we were ripping them a new one at Wembley in the PL
topper
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2008
- 3,806
- 16,254
And it no coincidence they have a billionaire owner who pumps his own money (or should I say the money he ripped off the Russian public) in to the club by the shedloads, and we have one who views the club as another investment
HodisGawd
Well-Known Member
- Oct 3, 2005
- 1,746
- 5,959
Would you prefer that? Because I wouldn't.
slartibartfast
Grunge baby forever
- Oct 21, 2012
- 18,320
- 33,955
Backwards.
topper
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2008
- 3,806
- 16,254
Never said I did, did I?
HodisGawd
Well-Known Member
- Oct 3, 2005
- 1,746
- 5,959
That's why I asked the question, which you still haven't answered.
topper
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2008
- 3,806
- 16,254
Didn't know I had to? Is it a new rule on this site then?
