The Spurs Youth Thread – 2016/2017

[THFCSPURS19]

I don't want to brag but I would like to think that my footballing knowledge is top notch especially my ability to know how good a player is. Youth players are a funny one, they all develop at different rates, mentally, physically, tactically, technically etc. My opinion is it would be harder for Marcus to not reach his amazing potential than to reach it, his got too much ability but thats just my opinion.

How long have you been an expert?

 

[spurs9]

I don't want to brag but I would like to think that my footballing knowledge is top notch especially my ability to know how good a player is. Youth players are a funny one, they all develop at different rates, mentally, physically, tactically, technically etc. My opinion is it would be harder for Marcus to not reach his amazing potential than to reach it, his got too much ability but thats just my opinion.

I've called you out on your "top notch" football knowledge before.

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/summer-transfer-wish-list.123542/page-221

On top of that as, recent as last may you said that our team was a "shower of shit" and that Kane wasn't good enough to leave. Apparently Poch is "Garbage".

Garbage manager, another Roberto Martinez. I've said it since he came at the club and I'm never going to change my mind.

 

[C0YS]

Jizzing my pants over Edwards potential. Has there ever been more hype for a youngster at Spurs in recent years.

Terry Dixon?

John Bostock maybee (though in fairness as soon as he actually came to spurs he didn't seem all that)

Caulker maybe? Taarabt? Phil Ifil? Leigh Mills?



We have had a few hyped, none who have fulfilled it and none clearly as talented as Edwards. Maybe Dixon was, hard to tell, with all the injuries!

 

[beats1]

Terry Dixon?

John Bostock maybee (though in fairness as soon as he actually came to spurs he didn't seem all that)

Caulker maybe? Taarabt? Phil Ifil? Leigh Mills?



We have had a few hyped, none who have fulfilled it and none clearly as talented as Edwards. Maybe Dixon was, hard to tell, with all the injuries!

Caulker became hyped after his loans

Onomah has been the most hyped but unlike those names above he has delivered and its fair to say no one has since matched him

He shined in the U21 league(it was stronger then as well imo) at a young age.

Marcus unfortunately hasnt played a lot of games outside of the U18's

Marcus has played in his career about 740 mins of U21/U23's, which is just over 8 games, even in the FA youth cup Marcus has only played about half an hour in total

 

[C0YS]

Caulker became hyped after his loans

Onomah has been the most hyped but unlike those names above he has delivered and its fair to say no one has since matched him

He shined in the U21 league(it was stronger then as well imo) at a young age.

Marcus unfortunately hasnt played a lot of games outside of the U18's

Marcus has played in his career about 740 mins of U21/U23's, which is just over 8 games, even in the FA youth cup Marcus has only played about half an hour in total

Onomah has delivered? Not yet the hasn't.

 

[Spurzinho]

Dixon had just as much hype as Edwards. I remember it well. He was training regularly with the first team when he was still at school. He made his senior Republic of Ireland debut at 16. Everyone at Spurs said he was going to be one of the best players the country had ever produced. I'm not kidding. He had his fair share of problems off the pitch, not including injuries but he was considered a phenom from 12 upwards.

 

[Kingkanoute]

Did anyone here actually watch Dixon in the flesh at Spurs? what was he was like as a player? strengths/weaknesses etc. I know he was likened to Rooney when he was younger, thought that was more down to build and playing in a similar position than anything else.

 

[IGSpur]

i saw the academy account reply to someone asking whether edwards should be starting for the u19s and his reply was that it'd be hard to argue that he's in better form than chelsea's mason mount. for a start that kind of goes without saying seeing as marcus rarely plays games at any level these dues due to being with the 1st team and also having been injured but even then he's managed five goals and five assists in 12 appearances(891 mins) this season across spurs and england youth games, mount by comparison has six goals and three assists in 27 appearances(2220 mins). so marcus has a better return despite playing about 40% of the minutes mount has, of course the game isn't just about goals and assists but they play more or less the same role and ultimately they're both tasked with making things happen in the final third.

another thing is i just saw the goals from the u19 game and spain [predictably] looked like a team of tiny tots and although i didn't see the game i wouldn't be surprised if it was a familiar case of an england youth side overawing their opponents physically rather than technically. i'm not at all saying mount(and others in the side) aren't solid technically but imo marcus is on another level to any of them, perhaps with the exception of dasilva.

however disappointing it is though that he's seemingly lost his england place, very little should be read into it. i've seen a few stupid comments elsewhere saying things like "oh look, the next messi can't even get off the bench for england" but then you can go back through the '96 england borns for example and it was always a midfield of lotus-cheek, baker and one of alli/winks ... and now look where they all are.

I don't think many would argue that Edwards is the more natural talent or most natural talent in that age group. I think more my point was knowing England and how that age group have struggled in the past, they probably didn't have the faith or nous to try and go toe to toe with Spain on a technical level, so reverted to type and set up to defend, as you mentioned in your 2nd paragraph. In that instance, while I think Mount is also a quality player he would be a better all rounder than Edwards and can drop into CM to help out, and as you also acknowledged is in 'better form' as he has played a lot more games this season. To play Edwards, in such an imprtant game would arguably have been a risk when his last game was a month or so ago, though I'd however back Edwards to create chances against Spain but England coaches weren't risking it. Same as why Willock didn't start, but they had Sterling and Sessegnon starting who are two skilled but are also more workhorses as well.

When its all sown up Edwards and Willock start against Belarus as it's more natural attacking football. Will be interesting to see how they go at the Euros though

I would hope he hasn't lost his place, but if he has it somewhat goes against this whole DNA thing. Not completely as like I say Mount is quality, but if you aren't fitting in your most talented player in that age group as you're fearing you might not match up as a team, then there really is no point. The lack of games for Edwards is a frustration though, and the longer he goes without playing, the less someone will select him

 

[sammyj]

Didn't he leave us and go to West ham and suffure the same injury

 

[beats1]

Onomah has delivered? Not yet the hasn't.

In terms of the youth teams he has, he has matched that hype with performances for the youth teams

For the first team of course he hasnt but he hasnt had a chance in his natural position and has been wasted out wide

 

[danielneeds]

He was very much like a young Rooney and even looked like him a bit.

I would go out my way to watch him play.

He would have been a hell of a player if not for the injuries.

I never saw him, but I'm always a doubtful of young players who are more physically developed at youth levels. Particularly if they've also become hard as nails playing gaelic football and hurling! So easy to bully other kids at that level.

Shame we never got to see what he could do though.

 

[beats1]

Dixon had just as much hype as Edwards. I remember it well. He was training regularly with the first team when he was still at school. He made his senior Republic of Ireland debut at 16. Everyone at Spurs said he was going to be one of the best players the country had ever produced. I'm not kidding. He had his fair share of problems off the pitch, not including injuries but he was considered a phenom from 12 upwards.

Dixon had the hype but his first knee injury happened at 16 by the second time it felt like it wasnt going to happen

Of course he was still highly regarded by the club and was offered a coaching role at the club but its hard not to blame him turning it down considering he was 19

 

[Spurzinho]

Dixon had the hype but his first knee injury happened at 16 by the second time it felt like it wasnt going to happen

Of course he was still highly regarded by the club and was offered a coaching role at the club but its hard not to blame him turning it down considering he was 19

That was actually the second knee injury he had. His first was when he was 14 (I believe), he suffered a repeat of the same injury at 16 (which is why everyone was so worried, and why it was such a big deal) and then another slightly different injury later on. After three major knee surgeries it was clear that he wasn't going to be the same explosive player. His head had gone and his heart, arguably, wasn't in it. He wasn't ready to retire and so left in a bit of a huff, having felt that we'd let him down. He went to West Ham to prove Spurs wrong but realised pretty quick that Spurs had been right. He cancelled a three year contract after just 12 months.

As for his playing style...He was as strong as a bull, lowish centre of gravity, great shot on him, held the ball up well, was a little Kane like with his shooting and link up play around the book. He never grew over 5'10" ish so was never going to be the physical specimen that Kane is but he was extremely aggressive like a young Rooney. Rooney had more pace than Dixon but Dixon was stronger and better at playing with his back to goal.

 

[C0YS]

In terms of the youth teams he has, he has matched that hype with performances for the youth teams

For the first team of course he hasnt but he hasnt had a chance in his natural position and has been wasted out wide

Ultimately how well you do for the youth team is irrelevant. It just adds to the hype. Hype is only matched by performances at the top level. Onomah has not matched the hype. In many ways his largely disappointing cameos has the very least taken a lot of pressure off him.

The vast majority of players do not match the hype. That's the nature of youth football.

The step up is to enter a different game, of different intensity. A kid with great physical attributes can look average at the top level, a kid with good technical ability finds at the top level that the average ability is much higher.

 

[C0YS]

I don't want to brag but I would like to think that my footballing knowledge is top notch especially my ability to know how good a player is. Youth players are a funny one, they all develop at different rates, mentally, physically, tactically, technically etc. My opinion is it would be harder for Marcus to not reach his amazing potential than to reach it, his got too much ability but thats just my opinion.

Mate if you think your football knowledge is 'top notch' you wouldn't feel the need to mention it every other post!

Also don't pretend otherwise, you love to brag, considering the vast number of posts you declare yourself to be some sort of football expert. Just some advise, if you want to be a taken a bit more seriously in your football knowledge, don't declare an expert, demonstrate it. Ideally with in depth analysis of the players you talk about. If you have that 'knowledge' put it to good use, and enlighten us, you don't need to start a post like that.

Anyway, I am hopeful and excited about edwards, but very few fulfill their full potential. Good thing with Edwards is he seems to be such a talent if he fulfills half of that he would still be a damn good player! Long way to go tho..

 

[Blake Griffin]

https://twitter.com/England/status/846667443699417088

edwards goal at 0:42 and then plays a part in the next two.

 

[jari17]

Mate if you think your football knowledge is 'top notch' you wouldn't feel the need to mention it every other post!

Also don't pretend otherwise, you love to brag, considering the vast number of posts you declare yourself to be some sort of football expert. Just some advise, if you want to be a taken a bit more seriously in your football knowledge, don't declare an expert, demonstrate it. Ideally with in depth analysis of the players you talk about. If you have that 'knowledge' put it to good use, and enlighten us, you don't need to start a post like that.

Anyway, I am hopeful and excited about edwards, but very few fulfill their full potential. Good thing with Edwards is he seems to be such a talent if he fulfills half of that he would still be a damn good player! Long way to go tho..

I completely agree, point taken and I will next include an in depth analysis when I post something. I just think Edwards ability didn't need to be analysed. His ball control is superb at a standing point and especially at pace. His ball manipulation is very good, his spacial awareness is good, very good end product, passing range needs work but his through balls and short passes are weighted excellently and at very good accuracy even when he is running at pace he puts in a impressively weighted ball which is very very difficult to do. His agility and acceleration at a standing point is very good, his got decent spatial awareness and very good football intelligence. I can go on but as everyone knows he is technically gifted.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Ultimately how well you do for the youth team is irrelevant. It just adds to the hype. Hype is only matched by performances at the top level. Onomah has not matched the hype. In many ways his largely disappointing cameos has the very least taken a lot of pressure off him.

The vast majority of players do not match the hype. That's the nature of youth football.

The step up is to enter a different game, of different intensity. A kid with great physical attributes can look average at the top level, a kid with good technical ability finds at the top level that the average ability is much higher.

I think this is part of the problem with youth football in this country. If you have a rare but beautiful rose seedling that you know can only grow in cow shit, and you plant it in horse shit it doesn't mean the rose was over hyped, it means the onus is on you to give that rose the best possible chance to bloom and if you feed it horse shit it's your fault, not the rose's fault for not being able to grow in horse shit.

Youth football is not irrelevant, it is the pre-curser, the incubation phase and is a vital part of the process.

But why, having spent years of time and effort nurturing that kid, do we then try and make things as difficult as possible for them to reach their potential. We place obstacle after obstacle in their path. We send them to strange places, often playing a vastly inferior brand of football, or we play them once every 3 months, we play them out of position, or we play them in mesh mash teams made up up of players who rarely play together as a team in far flung places of Europe (sometimes we do all of things at the same time) and then go "oh look, he's not matched the hype". It's fucking ridiculous.

Look at what happens when you give these players the best possible chance, you play them with balanced first teamers around them, you play them in their best position, you introduce them into the right game environment, you allow them to make the odd mistake without it being a catastrophe - they are far more likely to show their best aren't they ?

Look at what they do in other countries and how much we are paying for the players given this environment in those countries.

I'm not saying we don't ever do this, or that is always the case, but it is very prevalent in the the PL and at our club too, and Onomah is a prime example of this, and there have been others.

 

[thefierycamel]

https://twitter.com/England/status/846667443699417088

edwards goal at 0:42 and then plays a part in the next two.

"Content not available in your country". Bloody poms

 

[mill]

"Content not available in your country". Bloody poms

Hmmmm tbh I'm not sure you lot deserve it, I spent my time there debunking the myth that Lucas neill was one of the pl's best players and the only Aussie I met who knew what he was talking about was a young Rolf Harris looking Liverpool fan

I was there for santini's first game, the studio pundit was Robbie slater, who played here so should know better, and he declared that spurs signing naybet was a dig at arsenal cos he'd lobbed seaman from the halfway line for Zaragoza