The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[DarwinSpur]

No, just this weird need to name prospective new owners, there's your 'pointless'

And i'd guess it's mainly done in an attempt to steer people toward the accusation that they don't care who owns the club, even slave/oil money

If people can't see that plucking a name out from nowhere as who you'd like to see own the club is pointless and ridiculous then I don't know what else to say

But there's a massive reason nobody has actually answered the question. Because it's a bullshit question.

A pointless question that is being asked and debated in every pub in North London after every game.

I am a Season Ticket holder in the South who goes with Two other Season Ticket holders. We all have children who we take to the games. We are absolutely the people the "Enic Outers" need to win over if they are to get any real traction. I am willing to have the discussion but I want to know the stakes.

So I don't actually appreciate being called a "Troll" by asking question actual Spurs fans with actual tickets who go to actual games every fucking week. And often take our children only to have their days spoiled by the toxic atmosphere caused by this debate and so called "pointless question". Every single week there are discussions and debate about "is it worth protesting Enic if we end up being sold to Qatar". That is the question being asked in the stands by people who own season tickets. Sorry but it just is.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Of course no-one knows exactly who would buy the club in the event of a sale. But there aren't too many potential buyers out there and I think it's reasonable to expect those advocating "Levy out at all costs" to put a little thought into this, and perhaps some research.

I would also argue that the the "Levy out at all costs" movement is "pointless, unrealistic and ridiculous". When you say "That is when you make a choice", the only one who will be making a choice as to who will be the next owner is Levy/ENIC/Lewis family. Not any of us.

I rest my case and apologise for somewhat labouring the point.

I think the 'Levy out at all costs' thing is largely fuelled by frustration, maybe a little out of hand and something said in the heat of the moment, I don't know, just a guess............I think most sensible people are aware of the possibilities. But as is happening now, the sensible majority get lumped in

But thank you for the response

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

A pointless question that is being asked and debated in every pub in North London after every game.

I am a Season Ticket holder in the South who goes with Two other Season Ticket holders. We all have children who we take to the games. We are absolutely the people the "Enic Outers" need to win over if they are to get any real traction. I am willing to have the discussion but I want to know the stakes.

So I don't actually appreciate being called a "Troll" by asking question actual Spurs fans with actual tickets who go to actual games every fucking week. And often take our children only to have their days spoiled by the toxic atmosphere caused by this debate and so called "pointless question". Every single week there are discussions and debate about "is it worth protesting Enic if we end up being sold to Qatar". That is the question being asked in the stands by people who own season tickets. Sorry but it just is.

Sorry, not getting involved for the sake of peace. Thank you though.

 

[Duke of Northumberland]

No, just this weird need to name prospective new owners, there's your 'pointless'

And i'd guess it's mainly done in an attempt to steer people toward the accusation that they don't care who owns the club, even slave/oil money

If people can't see that plucking a name out from nowhere as who you'd like to see own the club is pointless and ridiculous then I don't know what else to say

But there's a massive reason nobody has actually answered the question. Because it's a bullshit question.

I think that’s your conscience speaking to you @Archibald&Crooks

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I think that’s your conscience speaking to you @Archibald&Crooks

haha, nice try

 

[jurgen]

Discussing football on the internet is pretty pointless honestly. But we've got a poll that asks ENIC out or in, with no prospective alternatives, and this pointless thread...

Just to help out the ENIC outers, you could start by looking at the consortia that were interested in Chelsea but didn't clinch the deal. Maybe you'd like one of those? Then its a rational conversation between options. I've seen people say they like Fenway who are trying to sell Liverpool and then the likes of Brighton and Bournemouth, which have a scaling up problem, I'd say.

Of course Brighton and Bournemouth have a scaling up problem, they're tiny clubs. That certainly doesn't mean we can't look enviously at the precision in how they run their sporting organisations does it? I'd hope the club aren't that myopic in how they assess what their competitors are up to.

Likewise we've seen Liverpool dismissed as 'lucky' and references made to how annoyed their fans currently are - again, I'd hope the club isn't just looking at other clubs and putting all their successes down to chance rather than learning from it, and Liverpool fans being pissed off at their owners isn't surprising as they have a fanbase that demands a winning culture at the club - ENIC wouldn't survive 5 minutes there.

 

[Duke of Northumberland]

My position is oil/slave nations out all costs. ENIC is not the worst of the rest, far from it.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Levy should be open about what has gone catastrophically wrong with the player recruitment process since Paul Mitchell left.

Also why Paul Mitchell felt he had to leave despite doing a good job.

How is that off topic Cream?

 

[McArchibald]

One of the ironies of this "Levy out" hysteria is that he has been so successful that there aren't many potential buyers out there. I think it's fair enough to ask people who want Levy out at any cost to think about the realities of a sale. With a bit of research (rather than shooting from the hip) you could probably identify a few possible buyers and as a minimum identify the types of buyers (someone with an interest in sport and able to raise £3bln+) and say what type of buyers you would find acceptable.

It's all a bit of an academic exercise as Levy is unlikely to sell in the near future and when he does he won't care about our views. He will go for the one with the highest bid who is deemed "fit and proper" (basically anyone except for Putin if Newcastle is anything to go by).

Successful? Or could it be that his valuation of the club is just plain ludicrous? Like his valuation of the naming rights...
When ENIC sell they won't come anywhere near the amounts being bandied about (3-4 bn). And the value of their asset is only going to slide given that the club is loaded with debt and that we're headed for a wee spell outside of the top 4...

 

[robotsonic]

Successful? or could it be that his valuation of the club is just plain ludicrous? Like his valuation of the naming rights...
When ENIC sell they won't come anywhere near the amounts being bandied about (3-4 bn). And the value of their asset is only going to slide given that the club is loaded with debt and that we're headed for a wee spell outside of the top 4...

Loaded with debt? That's the kind of tripe used to beat us with by oppo fans. Not sure how the value of the club is going to go down because we pay off the mortgage on the stadium which is backed by...the value of the stadium. If anything, that increases value. If you want to slag the bloke off, at least be realistic.

 

[KaribYid]

Here's the clip

Not sure how many times we need to have this confirmed for certain fans to see what the problem is.

A lot of his defenders only respond to the fans who want him out due perceived lack of spending as it's easy to argue against. We've spent loads over the past few years so it's not the amount we spend.

It's the fact that we spend based on financial reasons rather than sporting reasons. It's that we have people who are not equiped to judge the ability of players and how they fit making decisions on whether we sign that player or not.

It's the fact that we hold on to players long after a manager has identified that the player is no longer good enough as Levy and the board base their decisions on economic value rather than listening to the experts.

It's that we've spent a lot in the last four years yet have had four different managers in that time. Spending without any strategy or stability is poor spending. United is a good example of that.

 

[G Ron]

I absolutely love Dumb and Dumber. That film would accurately describe the management of the club recently

Yep - we’ll be signing “Samsonite” next

 

[Metalhead]

Not sure how many times we need to have this confirmed for certain fans to see what the problem is.

A lot of his defenders only respond to the fans who want him out due perceived lack of spending as it's easy to argue against. We've spent loads over the past few years so it's not the amount we spend.

It's the fact that we spend based on financial reasons rather than sporting reasons. It's that we have people who are not equiped to judge the ability of players and how they fit making decisions on whether we sign that player or not.

It's the fact that we hold on to players long after a manager has identified that the player is no longer good enough as Levy and the board base their decisions on economic value rather than listening to the experts.

It's that we've spent a lot in the last four years yet have had four different managers in that time. Spending without any strategy or stability is poor spending. United is a good example of that.

Be careful what you wish for. Leeds.

 

[McArchibald]

Loaded with debt? That's the kind of tripe used to beat us with by oppo fans. Not sure how the value of the club is going to go down because we pay off the mortgage on the stadium which is backed by...the value of the stadium. If anything, that increases value. If you want to slag the bloke off, at least be realistic.

The club is loaded with debt. That's the reality. We'll be paying it off for decades.
We may be able to meet the mortgage payments at this point, but that doesn't mean the liabilities are not there in the books.

 

[Misfit]

View attachment 125768
The club is loaded with debt. That's the reality. We'll be paying it off for decades.
We may be able to meet the mortgage payments at this point, but that doesn't mean the liabilities are not there in the books.

Yes, that infrastructure debt doesn't screw us wrt FFP is nice but the reality is any new owner will need to take that debt on board when buying the club. It doesn't just evaporate into thin air.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Yes, that infrastructure debt doesn't screw us wrt FFP is nice but the reality is any new owner will need to take that debt on board when buying the club. It doesn't just evaporate into thin air.

True

But , if I had a million pound mortgage on a house worth £2m, I’d be worth double the someone with a £0.5m mortgage against a £1m house… all other things being equal. Even though my debt was twice his.

 

[NEVILLEB]

Can tell he's really holding his tongue as well. Pretty obvious that the recruitment staff found it frustrating at best (which we all knew already tbh)

This confirms that Levy meddles and in his opinion we lost players who could have pushed us on.

 

[Wiener]

View attachment 125768

The club is loaded with debt. That's the reality. We'll be paying it off for decades
We may be able to meet the mortgage payments at this point, but that doesn't mean the liabilities are not there in the books.

The most current figure I could find is £852.6m (Feb 2023). 90% of it at fixed rate, average rate currently 2.8% and average maturity over 20 years. It looks manageable especially since the borrowed money has mostly been invested in a brand new state of the art stadium, considered by many to be one of the best in the world.

Financial results – year end 30 June, 2022 | Tottenham Hotspur

Latest financial update.

www.tottenhamhotspur.com

The Arse have significantly less debt, but a higher wage bill and lower commercial receipts as well as slightly lower Matchday receipts. We are not doing badly.

Arsenal Supporters Trust | Sharing in the Future of Arsenal Football Club

A look at Arsenal’s financial position from 2020/21 to 2022/23

www.arsenaltrust.org

 

[Bing]

My position is oil/slave nations out all costs. ENIC is not the worst of the rest, far from it.

Aside from the morality aspect...there is also something to be said for sustainably growing a clubs finances and investing in infrastructure, local community and playing staff to grow the club organically.

Whether you like Levy or not, I think you have to agree we have taken a different approach to a Chelsea or a City. In my opinion, we have done it the right way.

 

[robotsonic]

View attachment 125768
The club is loaded with debt. That's the reality. We'll be paying it off for decades.
We may be able to meet the mortgage payments at this point, but that doesn't mean the liabilities are not there in the books.

Debt isn't just bad because you owe someone for something. We don't have bad debt, because we can afford to repay it and because it's secured against such an asset.

It's like claiming that it's a bad thing to have a mortgage, which it isn't.