The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[Trent Crimm]

View attachment 125436

Why is he standing next to Joey Tempest ? Was he the triangle player in. Europe ?

 

[Trent Crimm]

Wasn't it because sporting wanted to change porros sale, to a loan for taxation reasons late in the window.

We could have just kept Doherty, rather than let him go on a free, since value is more important.

Don’t think so.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

I would say our recruitment is worse than both Liverpool & Chelsea over a long period, hence they are recent PL winners. I also wouldn’t bet on being above Liverpool come the end of the season.

I really don't agree with that.

A key difference between us and Chelsea / Liverpool is that our periods of good recruitment have been from a weaker starting position (mid-table, not top 4 regulars) and with lesser means to recruit with (lower turnover + not such a big draw to the most sought after players). For that reason, I would say it's naïve and overly simplistic to judge the recruitment success of each club by their trophies. Our recruitment had to be far better than that of the teams we caught / closed the gap on, because we had to catch up with their squad strength while spending significantly less (due to our far inferior revenue). A comparison of trophies would be more representative of our recruitment success if you were comparing us to clubs who were of a more similar stature at the starting point (i.e. if looking at recruitment since ENIC bought the club, compare our trophy haul to clubs like Everton, Villa, West Ham & Southampton).

Liverpool had 2-3 years of very good recruitment, which resulted in their PL & CL trophies, but either side of this have had some pretty terrible periods of recruitment. Before Klopp, Liverpool squandered a lot of money, struggled to adequately replace key departures (e.g. Alonso & Mascherano replaced with Aquillani & Shelvey! - which must have been a significant factor in Benitez's demise) and went from being an ever-present part of an unbreachable "big four" to struggling to qualify for the Europa League. Even during their title-winning campaign, pundits were already questioning their recruitment (or lack of it), and their drop in performances since then has been very predictable. The last time they clearly upgraded on there starting XI was Alisson in 2018 (half a decade ago!). Jota, Thiago, Diaz, Nunez etc. are not terrible players by any means, but they are downgrades on what the declining / departing players they were brought in to replace had been contributing to the team during their prime years.
Despite a 4(?) fantastic years under Klopp (underpinned by 2-3 years of very good recruitment), they have finished below us in 8 of the last 13 seasons, which contradicts your assertion that their recruitment has been better than ours over a long period.
Their good patch under Klopp lasted about the same duration as our good patch under Poch. If Klopp is now given time to attempt recover from his current struggles, that's time no other "big" club has given a manager in recent history (Poch certainly wasn't in 2019).

Chelsea were regularly challenging for / winning the PL as a result of £2billion of financial doping, which meant it didn't matter if 2/3 of their expensive signings flopped. A lot of their recruitment has been very questionable, even during Mourinho's two title-winning reigns (they signed players like Shevchenko, Salah & de Bruyne, even though they weren't in the manager's plans, then practically gave them away). Obviously, they assembled some very good teams, but they had 30-40 failed signings out on loan at any given time...who they could afford to replace without selling because FFP hadn't impacted them yet. Their success rate in the transfer market didn't need to be good, as their financial means allowed them to sign more players than they could register. FFP actually seemed to bring their spending under control, with their success on the pitch becoming far less consistent as a result. The restriction on loans is an issue for them too.
Last time they won the league, we finished 2nd and our recent recruitment had been very good. Since then, both teams have had poor recruitment and both teams have been on a downward trajectory, but Chelsea is currently a worse team and has plenty of their own issues to resolve. We wasted our limited funds on Ndombele & Lo Celso. Chelsea splurged £200m on Bakayoko, Morata, Drinkwater & Zappacosta, without their owner even noticing the money leave his account. Like us, they are currently trying to dig themselves out of an eight-year rut of being nothing more than a team challenging for top 4 (and sometimes missing out), but they've fallen from a higher peak than us and their current rut is even deeper than ours.
Chelsea has recently spent over half a billion on signings, but this has somehow made their team far worse and they're currently not even in the top half of the league table. Unless their impending new manager miraculously turns their performances around without overhauling the squad, this will be a strong contender for the worst year of recruitment for any team ever. They've squandered so much money (without any clear strategy) that they will be left to carefully navigate FFP for at least half a decade.

Like Liverpool and Chelsea, we've also had both good and bad periods for recruitment. Under Jol & Arnesen, we went from being a mid-table team to challenging for the top 4, while simultaneously assembling the youngest team in the league - that was fantastic recruitment. We then had a bad patch in the transfer market, but that was more about player retention than recruitment, and quite a few of Comolli's signings came good once they'd had time to settle / develop (e.g. Modric & Bale)…followed by the "Bale money" / "magnificent seven". Under Poch, good business (e.g. Alderweireld, Wanyama, Dele, Dier, Son) resulted in our three highest ever PL finishes (3rd/2nd/3rd in the league) and qualifying for the CL in consecutive seasons for the first time.
Several of our key players during our peak under Poch were actually signed during what at the time was perceived as a period of poor recruitment (e.g. Eriksen, Dembele, Vertonghen, Lloris, Lamela). For this reason, I'm not going to be too quick to judge our recruitment under Paratici. Any of Romero, Bentancur, Kulusevski, Richarlison, Emerson, Porro & Udogie could go on to be a big player for us for years to come, so I will be interested to see how they fit in (or not) under our new manager.

 

[Mr Pink]

Levy is a shrewd manipulator.

But this time it's different.

Most fans have wised up to him now, too long in the tooth and can see him for what he is.

He's desperately trying to get on side.

Way too much water under the bridge now.

 

[THE SPURSBOY]

The only way out for him is signing JN

 

[Mr Pink]

Might have been a good idea for the club to explain that to fans prior to the refund. Would have been an easy win.

Another master stroke in terms of planning lol

 

[greaves]

The only way out for him is signing JN

Hmmmm.

 

[Montalbano]

Hopefully the fans will get fully behind Mason and the players through the end of the season. Then they can rebel against Levy in the summer

 

[we_all_loved_freund]

I’m not a fan of Levy in any way, when it comes to his management of football related matters. However, I have not seen one suggestion of another person or group that I would currently prefer. A club the size of ours is only really going to attract buyers the ilk of an American investment fund or sports washing state ownership.

Levy has his faults, but be very careful what you wish for. I’d much rather be a spurs fan than a Newcastle fan as things stand.

 

[wadewill]

Hopefully the fans will get fully behind Mason and the players through the end of the season. Then they can rebel against Levy in the summer

Most of the players are also part of the problem

They don’t give a fuck about the club or fans either

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Wasn't it because sporting wanted to change porros sale, to a loan for taxation reasons late in the window.

We could have just kept Doherty, rather than let him go on a free, since value is more important.

Correct

 

[rossdapep]

This team and club were in an incredible place from 2015-2019.

That was in spite of Levy, so I do believe we can get there again and it's not 'the end' so to speak.

But it'll have to be in spite of him and we need to hope Munn can operate very well.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I really don't agree with that.

A key difference between us and Chelsea / Liverpool is that our periods of good recruitment have been from a weaker starting position (mid-table, not top 4 regulars) and with lesser means to recruit with (lower turnover + not such a big draw to the most sought after players). For that reason, I would say it's naïve and overly simplistic to judge the recruitment success of each club by their trophies. Our recruitment had to be far better than that of the teams we caught / closed the gap on, because we had to catch up with their squad strength while spending significantly less (due to our far inferior revenue). A comparison of trophies would be more representative of our recruitment success if you were comparing us to clubs who were of a more similar stature at the starting point (i.e. if looking at recruitment since ENIC bought the club, compare our trophy haul to clubs like Everton, Villa, West Ham & Southampton).

Liverpool had 2-3 years of very good recruitment, which resulted in their PL & CL trophies, but either side of this have had some pretty terrible periods of recruitment. Before Klopp, Liverpool squandered a lot of money, struggled to adequately replace key departures (e.g. Alonso & Mascherano replaced with Aquillani & Shelvey! - which must have been a significant factor in Benitez's demise) and went from being an ever-present part of an unbreachable "big four" to struggling to qualify for the Europa League. Even during their title-winning campaign, pundits were already questioning their recruitment (or lack of it), and their drop in performances since then has been very predictable. The last time they clearly upgraded on there starting XI was Alisson in 2018 (half a decade ago!). Jota, Thiago, Diaz, Nunez etc. are not terrible players by any means, but they are downgrades on what the declining / departing players they were brought in to replace had been contributing to the team during their prime years.
Despite a 4(?) fantastic years under Klopp (underpinned by 2-3 years of very good recruitment), they have finished below us in 8 of the last 13 seasons, which contradicts your assertion that their recruitment has been better than ours over a long period.
Their good patch under Klopp lasted about the same duration as our good patch under Poch. If Klopp is now given time to attempt recover from his current struggles, that's time no other "big" club has given a manager in recent history (Poch certainly wasn't in 2019).

Chelsea were regularly challenging for / winning the PL as a result of £2billion of financial doping, which meant it didn't matter if 2/3 of their expensive signings flopped. A lot of their recruitment has been very questionable, even during Mourinho's two title-winning reigns (they signed players like Shevchenko, Salah & de Bruyne, even though they weren't in the manager's plans, then practically gave them away). Obviously, they assembled some very good teams, but they had 30-40 failed signings out on loan at any given time...who they could afford to replace without selling because FFP hadn't impacted them yet. Their success rate in the transfer market didn't need to be good, as their financial means allowed them to sign more players than they could register. FFP actually seemed to bring their spending under control, with their success on the pitch becoming far less consistent as a result. The restriction on loans is an issue for them too.
Last time they won the league, we finished 2nd and our recent recruitment had been very good. Since then, both teams have had poor recruitment and both teams have been on a downward trajectory, but Chelsea is currently a worse team and has plenty of their own issues to resolve. We wasted our limited funds on Ndombele & Lo Celso. Chelsea splurged £200m on Bakayoko, Morata, Drinkwater & Zappacosta, without their owner even noticing the money leave his account. Like us, they are currently trying to dig themselves out of an eight-year rut of being nothing more than a team challenging for top 4 (and sometimes missing out), but they've fallen from a higher peak than us and their current rut is even deeper than ours.
Chelsea has recently spent over half a billion on signings, but this has somehow made their team far worse and they're currently not even in the top half of the league table. Unless their impending new manager miraculously turns their performances around without overhauling the squad, this will be a strong contender for the worst year of recruitment for any team ever. They've squandered so much money (without any clear strategy) that they will be left to carefully navigate FFP for at least half a decade.

Like Liverpool and Chelsea, we've also had both good and bad periods for recruitment. Under Jol & Arnesen, we went from being a mid-table team to challenging for the top 4, while simultaneously assembling the youngest team in the league - that was fantastic recruitment. We then had a bad patch in the transfer market, but that was more about player retention than recruitment, and quite a few of Comolli's signings came good once they'd had time to settle / develop (e.g. Modric & Bale)…followed by the "Bale money" / "magnificent seven". Under Poch, good business (e.g. Alderweireld, Wanyama, Dele, Dier, Son) resulted in our three highest ever PL finishes (3rd/2nd/3rd in the league) and qualifying for the CL in consecutive seasons for the first time.
Several of our key players during our peak under Poch were actually signed during what at the time was perceived as a period of poor recruitment (e.g. Eriksen, Dembele, Vertonghen, Lloris, Lamela). For this reason, I'm not going to be too quick to judge our recruitment under Paratici. Any of Romero, Bentancur, Kulusevski, Richarlison, Emerson, Porro & Udogie could go on to be a big player for us for years to come, so I will be interested to see how they fit in (or not) under our new manager.

Excellent post

 

[McFlash]

I’m not a fan of Levy in any way, when it comes to his management of football related matters. However, I have not seen one suggestion of another person or group that I would currently prefer. A club the size of ours is only really going to attract buyers the ilk of an American investment fund or sports washing state ownership.

Levy has his faults, but be very careful what you wish for. I’d much rather be a spurs fan than a Newcastle fan as things stand.

I've always said, ENIC aren't the problem, they've been pretty damn good for this club and in many aspects, so has Levy.

I don't want them out because we'll be unlikely to find better owners, what I want is for Levy to step the fuck away from the footballing side.
Hire someone who knows what they are doing, give them a budget and just leave them the fuck alone.

If Munn and the new DoF are those people, then good stuff but I just don't trust Levy to give them enough control.
He'll try but he just cannot seem to help himself

 

[riggi]

Multiple people reporting this now. Unbelievable

 

[Strikeb4ck]

I've always said, ENIC aren't the problem, they've been pretty damn good for this club and in many aspects, so has Levy.

I don't want them out because we'll be unlikely to find better owners, what I want is for Levy to step the fuck away from the footballing side.
Hire someone who knows what they are doing, give them a budget and just leave them the fuck alone.

If Munn and the new DoF are those people, then good stuff but I just don't trust Levy to give them enough control.
He'll try but he just cannot seem to help himself

Yes, this 100%. Commercially and from a business strategy perspective you won't find much better than Levy/ENIC.

It's when they try to run the football side of things that it goes tits up.

 

[Ruffinthepuffin]

Taking away loyalty points is absolutely disgusting.
This club is currently an absolute disgrace.

 

[jedimonkey]

Wasn't it because sporting wanted to change porros sale, to a loan for taxation reasons late in the window.

We could have just kept Doherty, rather than let him go on a free, since value is more important.

Thought it was because Spence chose to go abroad on loan rather than stay in England and so we already had the maximum amount of international loans.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

The only way out for him is signing JN

Don’t even think that alone will cut it at all mate

 

[g_harry]

Levy is a shrewd manipulator.

But this time it's different.

Most fans have wised up to him now, too long in the tooth and can see him for what he is.

He's desperately trying to get on side.

Way too much water on the bridge now.

Managers not falling for it now either.