Match Threads Spurs vs Chelsea - Match Thread - Day 21

[Serpico]

A simple inclusion of Sergio Reguilón make a massive difference. Sergio shows where the minimum bar should be for talent. Saying that, we have a decent bunch that should be doing the business and by default winning some games. Whether its Jose and his tactical prowess or the players don't give a shit, there is something wrong. The whole atmosphere is dull (no other word for it). I can only guess that Jose has created an atmosphere of fear, players are trying too hard and being stifled by his personality. We need to lose up as a team, Jose needs to lighten up as a coach and as a whole we need to fight for what we achieved earlier in the season-it can be turned around.They all need to take ownership of the shit we are in.

 

[sebo_sek]

So it's just Mourinho's fault?

I'll put it this way - after one or two slip ups, I was with you all the way.
Now, after three defeats in a row with 1 goal scored, it's systemic.

If the players are ignoring what he is saying (so it's their fault), then he's gone all the more, as he has no authority.
If the players are incapable of doing what he wants and he forces them anyway, he's gone all the more.
If there are signs in training that they get and can execute it, but don't on matchdays, and he keeps playing them, see point one.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I'll put it this way - after one or two slip ups, I was with you all the way.
Now, after three defeats in a row with 1 goal scored, it's systemic.

If the players are ignoring what he is saying (so it's their fault), then he's gone all the more, as he has no authority.
If the players are incapable of doing what he wants and he forces them anyway, he's gone all the more.
If there are signs in training that they get and can execute it, but don't on matchdays, and he keeps playing them, see point one.

So that's a yes. Cool.

 

[blankom]

Really??
Ramos and DOF, not working let's go for old-fashioned English manager.
He wants too much transfer kitty, let's go for a young coach who totally bombed in his only previous job in England.
How about we promote from within?
Ah finally, we've found our man. Good philosophy, pressing-style, improves players, doesn't go for big money signings.
Ok we've fallen out with each other, let's find the polar opposite and hope the same players can adapt.

Yes, really
It’s partly his “transfer kitties” and his commercial strategies that made it possible to build 1st class Training Ground and 1st class stadium. With these new facilities in place he has unquestionable raised the potential for our beloved club.

 

[Tony-Bish]

It doesn’t look like these players are being coached on some fundamental aspects.

when we have the ball there is zero movement, no one wants it. Ther should be at least three options, players Running toward to ball, players moving along the lines but we’re stationary. Also our press is slow because we press the ball and not the outlets. You have to press both the ball and his options. In the second half we did that better but Chelsea still had players moving showing for the ball and did ok.

We seem to still have some of that easy possession but going nowhere style that worked when poch arrived. Now though there’s just no movement and people just waiting for crosses.

 

[sebo_sek]

So that's a yes. Cool.

Blinders, mate. I suppose it's a tactic. All the best.

 

[CrazyHeart]

On what planet is that the players' fault? They are doing what they are told and getting nowhere. And it's their fault. Right. Gottcha.

Transcript of leaked audio ahead of yesterday's game:

Jose Mourinho : Okay Eric, *--inaudible* I want you to throw a reckless challenge *--inaudible* and... give away a penalty.

Eric Dier : *--inaudible* we're already outmatched... won't that lose us the game?

Jose Mourinho : Just do what you're told!

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Blinders, mate. I suppose it's a tactic. All the best.

I asked you a simple question and you've beaten around the bush and changed tact three or four times. Don't then give it the 'all the best' bollocks when you're the one changing tact.

 

[Donki]

I asked you a simple question and you've beaten around the bush and changed tact three or four times. Don't then give it the 'all the best' bollocks when you're the one changing tact.

I'm not taking the blame off the players but as manager, arguably the one of the best of all time, game after game of the same shit its lands at his door for responsibility. We have seen this in his last 3 stints as manager, problem is we didn't even get a good season out of Jose. He told us he had changed, we heard "more forward thinking" the same bile he talked about when he joined United, for some reason we thought we would be different and clearly we haven't been.

Its not even the results that's concerning me as the absolute dogshit football we are playing against teams we should be going at right of the bat and continue to after we get a goal. This season will get toxic very quickly, players will continue to be singled out and lambasted. What he did to Doherty was exactly the same thing he did to Shaw.

 

[Monkey boy]

We won't beat city if this continues.

We'd be lucky to beat Bradford City if this continues.

 

[Ionman34]

So some of the players who aren't average couldn't carry out Pochs bidding before he got sacked (philosophy one) and now they can't carry out Mourinho's bidding (philosophy two)

Not sure what else we can expect of them then, which perhaps means, they are average ...

It’s not that they can’t, they’ve already proved that they can earlier in the season, resulting in us topping the league with some significant scalps along the way.
The problem, as I see it, is that they’ve just stopped doing all the things that make the system work.

We could bring in Nagelsmann, Hassenhutl, or any other manager with a different system or “philosophy” that will change the way we play, but if the players decide they don’t want to do it then do we scrap another manager, rinse and repeat?

I’m in full agreement that we don’t appear to have a way of playing that breaks down teams that sit in deep and make us break them down, but this does not apply to our last 3 games. We’ve already PROVEN that his system, played as required, can beat even the slickest of possession teams, but since the loss at Anfield we’ve simply stopped doing it, apart from the Leeds win, which just emphasises the fact that the players have just stopped doing what they’re supposed to, what they’re instructed to do.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

I'm not taking the blame off the players but as manager, arguably the one of the best of all time, game after game of the same shit its lands at his door for responsibility. We have seen this in his last 3 stints as manager, problem is we didn't even get a good season out of Jose. He told us he had changed, we heard "more forward thinking" the same bile he talked about when he joined United, for some reason we thought we would be different and clearly we haven't been.

Its not even the results that's concerning me as the absolute dogshit football we are playing against teams we should be going at right of the bat and continue to after we get a goal. This season will get toxic very quickly, players will continue to be singled out and lambasted. What he did to Doherty was exactly the same thing he did to Shaw.

So players, manager, blame in varying measures.

Yep, I can get behind that.

 

[Donki]

So players, manager, blame in varying measures.

Yep, I can get behind that.

Of course the manager gets the brunt of an under performing team, that happens in all walks of life not just football.

 

[14/04/91]

Yes, really ☺
It’s partly his “transfer kitties” and his commercial strategies that made it possible to build 1st class Training Ground and 1st class stadium. With these new facilities in place he has unquestionable raised the potential for our beloved club.

Absolutely agree his strategy for infrastructure is first class but sadly that is a world apart from his approach to the managerial/head coach position.

 

[SlotBadger]

I don't make the rules, mate

If that changes and you become the lawmaker, could you please change that, as well as a rule stating that Mike Dean must referee with a trident wedged up his arse at all times?

Cheers

 

[Deleted member 27995]

It’s not that they can’t, they’ve already proved that they can earlier in the season, resulting in us topping the league with some significant scalps along the way.
The problem, as I see it, is that they’ve just stopped doing all the things that make the system work.

We could bring in Nagelsmann, Hassenhutl, or any other manager with a different system or “philosophy” that will change the way we play, but if the players decide they don’t want to do it then do we scrap another manager, rinse and repeat?

I’m in full agreement that we don’t appear to have a way of playing that breaks down teams that sit in deep and make us break them down, but this does not apply to our last 3 games. We’ve already PROVEN that his system, played as required, can beat even the slickest of possession teams, but since the loss at Anfield we’ve simply stopped doing it, apart from the Leeds win, which just emphasises the fact that the players have just stopped doing what they’re supposed to, what they’re instructed to do.

Probably my overall point which it seems I may not have made clear enough. The bit in bold scares me.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Of course the manager gets the brunt of an under performing team, that happens in all walks of life not just football.

Two managers on the bounce? Interesting.

 

[Ionman34]

No but it is the manager's responsibility to get them playing. if they are not listening to him something is mighty wrong.

And this is where JM is not absolvable of any criticism. As manager he has to find a way of getting them back to believing in what he’s trying to achieve.

But sacking him before he’s had the chance?

 

[Shadydan]

This shouldn't be an either/or argument - the players and the manager is to blame, I believe we have a collective mentality problem at the club and some of the players are should be showing much more on the pitch, I mean it's not hard to actually run and put in a bit of effort having said that Jose should be getting more out of these players and should be able to motivate them and so therefore the buck stops with him.

 

[max cady]

And this is where JM is not absolvable of any criticism. As manager he has to find a way of getting them back to believing in what he’s trying to achieve.

But sacking him before he’s had the chance?

How much longer do we put up with it??