New Stadium Details And Discussions

[timfrancis]

Taken this from coys

via wine gum on ssc

Matilda Collywobs(who is thought to be a club official, maybe donna cullen) posted yesterday on Glory-Glory

"All Parties Demolition Plan signed-off. Another piece in a complicated jigsaw".

Not particularly important but surely with a name like that, it's more likely to be Matthew Collecott.

 

[Wine Gum]

A few more planning applications have gone in:

1. Approval of details pursuant to condition 3 (Portacabins) attached to planning permission HGY/2015/3002
http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=308181

2. Approval of details pursuant to condition A12 (Interim Landscape and Meanwhile Use scheme) attached to planning permission HGY/2015/3000
http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=308719

3. Change of use, restoration and repair works and the erection of a single-storey rear extension to permit a multifunctional, flexible occupation (Sui Generis) to include a mix of uses within Use Classes D1, A3 and B1; demolition of a rear wall structure; associated hard and soft landscaping; and other ancillary works
http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=309016

4. Listed Building Consent for change of use, restoration and repair works and the erection of a single-storey rear extension to permit a multifunctional, flexible occupation (Sui Generis) to include a mix of uses within Use Classes D1, A3 and B1; demolition of a rear wall structure; associated hard and soft landscaping; and other ancillary works
http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=309017

5. Non-material amendment following a grant of planning permission HGY/2015/3000: proposed removal of 90 day restriction (Condition D16) to allow operation of hotel serviced apartments as C3, rather than C1 Use Class. Consequential amendments to Conditions A4, A7 and D1.
http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=308860

 

[spursfan77]

A few more planning applications have gone in:

1. Approval of details pursuant to condition 3 (Portacabins) attached to planning permission HGY/2015/3002
http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=308181

2. Approval of details pursuant to condition A12 (Interim Landscape and Meanwhile Use scheme) attached to planning permission HGY/2015/3000
http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=308719

3. Change of use, restoration and repair works and the erection of a single-storey rear extension to permit a multifunctional, flexible occupation (Sui Generis) to include a mix of uses within Use Classes D1, A3 and B1; demolition of a rear wall structure; associated hard and soft landscaping; and other ancillary works
http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=309016

4. Listed Building Consent for change of use, restoration and repair works and the erection of a single-storey rear extension to permit a multifunctional, flexible occupation (Sui Generis) to include a mix of uses within Use Classes D1, A3 and B1; demolition of a rear wall structure; associated hard and soft landscaping; and other ancillary works
http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=309017

5. Non-material amendment following a grant of planning permission HGY/2015/3000: proposed removal of 90 day restriction (Condition D16) to allow operation of hotel serviced apartments as C3, rather than C1 Use Class. Consequential amendments to Conditions A4, A7 and D1.
http://www.planningservices.haringey...et?PKID=308860

Regarding number 5 - I thought they might do this in that building. Increase the residential over hotel use. Makes sense.

This doesn't sound good though!:

The original application submitted in 2015 was supported by a financial viability appraisal (FVA), which demonstrated that the hotel in isolation yielded a negative land value of £33.27m. An updated FVA based upon present day costs and values has been prepared by DS2 and is submitted in support of this application on a commercially confidential basis. The updated FVA based upon the consented scheme (i.e. based upon 49 Use Class C1 serviced apartments) shows a worsened overall scheme viability, largely due to construction cost inflation and the impacts of Brexit.

The revised FVA also shows that the conversion of the 49 serviced apartments from Use Class C1 to C3 only increases viability by approximately £2m, meaning that the hotel component of the NDP scheme still remains unviable overall.

 

[worcestersauce]

Regarding number 5 - I thought they might do this in that building. Increase the residential over hotel use. Makes sense.

This doesn't sound good though!:

The original application submitted in 2015 was supported by a financial viability appraisal (FVA), which demonstrated that the hotel in isolation yielded a negative land value of £33.27m. An updated FVA based upon present day costs and values has been prepared by DS2 and is submitted in support of this application on a commercially confidential basis. The updated FVA based upon the consented scheme (i.e. based upon 49 Use Class C1 serviced apartments) shows a worsened overall scheme viability, largely due to construction cost inflation and the impacts of Brexit.

The revised FVA also shows that the conversion of the 49 serviced apartments from Use Class C1 to C3 only increases viability by approximately £2m, meaning that the hotel component of the NDP scheme still remains unviable overall.

This is a very good post, shame I didn't follow a single word of it.
What is the difference between C1 and C3 for example.

 

[Phischy]

This is a very good post, shame I didn't follow a single word of it.
What is the difference between C1 and C3 for example.

C1 = Hotel use. For the purpose of the serviced apartments it means that no one tenant could stay for more than 90 days, guaranteeing that they are not full residential, they are effectively short term dwellings (for business people etc.)

C3 = Residential use. The apartments will still be 'serviced' but the restriction on how long a person (or persons) can stay is removed. I don't know if they'll be sold on the basis of a 99 year lease (or 999 year) but more likely they will effectively be rental opportunities. They will also have access to amenities like the hotel's gym/pool and roof areas.

I can't see how the club ever thought 90 day serviced apartments would be long term viable, at least not the proposed number. I don't know the area's demand and stuff, but in reality, these are the types of place a business would use to house people they have on secondment in London for a set period. The thing is, Tottenham isn't (yet) a prime location for that sort of thing and that's a lot of apartments for that purpose. Full residential will be much easier to fill and I suspect was the intention all along, they just needed to wait and find an excuse to change it once the wider scheme was approved. Maybe me being cynical.

 

[Lilbaz]

C1 = Hotel use. For the purpose of the serviced apartments it means that no one tenant could stay for more than 90 days, guaranteeing that they are not full residential, they are effectively short term dwellings (for business people etc.)

C3 = Residential use. The apartments will still be 'serviced' but the restriction on how long a person (or persons) can stay is removed. I don't know if they'll be sold on the basis of a 99 year lease (or 999 year) but more likely they will effectively be rental opportunities. They will also have access to amenities like the hotel's gym/pool and roof areas.

I can't see how the club ever thought 90 day serviced apartments would be long term viable, at least not the proposed number. I don't know the area's demand and stuff, but in reality, these are the types of place a business would use to house people they have on secondment in London for a set period. The thing is, Tottenham isn't (yet) a prime location for that sort of thing and that's a lot of apartments for that purpose. Full residential will be much easier to fill and I suspect was the intention all along, they just needed to wait and find an excuse to change it once the wider scheme was approved. Maybe me being cynical.

Think it will be mostly for european games and nfl games. Buy a ticket and hotel room. Opposing teams could also use it. We saw the problems man utd had getting to the ground when staying at wembley.

 

[Phischy]

Think it will be mostly for european games and nfl games. Buy a ticket and hotel room. Opposing teams could also use it. We saw the problems man utd had getting to the ground when staying at wembley.

The hotel fits that description, yes. There are about 6 or 7 floors of traditional hotel rooms, there are just a further 5 of proper apartments with bedrooms, living rooms, kitchens etc. They are meant as proper places to live, just for a limited time. They are going to be turned into places people can live full time.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

If it's the same interview that he did for nbc he mentioned about 75%(?) of people in tottenham being on housing benefit and that the council was stretched and needed private projects like this to help improve the area.
Not saying that it needed gentrification just that the council didn't have the money to do stuff like this.
The bt interview might have had something different though as i haven't seen it.

The borough of Haringey is sociologically very peculiar. The western half of the borough is middle-class-to-wealthy. The eastern half (which includes the stadium) is very poor and is dominated by large council estates. Because of this, Haringey Council's housing policy takes a totally different approach to the two halves of the borough.

In the western half, they take as tough an approach as possible when demanding that developers provide a high percentage of affordable housing and they want 70% of the affordable housing to be rented.

In the eastern half, they take the view that there is already too much social rented housing for there to be a balanced community, so there is more scope for flexibility in new developments, and they prefer the affordable housing to be 70% shared ownership.

You can dress it up however you like, but the objective is explicitly to "encourage a better class of people" - with more disposable income - to live in the eastern part of Haringey. I expect that is what Levy was referencing.

Regarding number 5 - I thought they might do this in that building. Increase the residential over hotel use. Makes sense.

This doesn't sound good though!:

The original application submitted in 2015 was supported by a financial viability appraisal (FVA), which demonstrated that the hotel in isolation yielded a negative land value of £33.27m. An updated FVA based upon present day costs and values has been prepared by DS2 and is submitted in support of this application on a commercially confidential basis. The updated FVA based upon the consented scheme (i.e. based upon 49 Use Class C1 serviced apartments) shows a worsened overall scheme viability, largely due to construction cost inflation and the impacts of Brexit.

The revised FVA also shows that the conversion of the 49 serviced apartments from Use Class C1 to C3 only increases viability by approximately £2m, meaning that the hotel component of the NDP scheme still remains unviable overall.

This is a very good post, shame I didn't follow a single word of it.
What is the difference between C1 and C3 for example.

I do viability appraisals for property developers for a living, among other things. I'm working on three of them right now. If you want to make them look worse, or to show that a development is not viable, it isn't very difficult.

In this case, the objective was to remove the 90-day restriction, because the resulting serviced apartments are worth more as C3 (residential) than as C1 (hotel). The only way to convince the planners to vary the restriction is to show that the hotel part of the development is not viable as C1. So their consultant has produced a viability appraisal that shows that.

Some might suggest that developers using viability appraisals to reduce affordable housing and manipulate planning authorities is a gigantic Tory scam to make developers richer and destroy the affordable housing sector. I couldn't possibly comment.

I don't think it has serious implications for the overall viability of the NDP. It's just a way of getting the council to do what they want.

 

[Drink!Drink!]

...and a bit higher still

 

[Lilbaz]

...and a bit higher still
View attachment 29627

The middle will be higher. On top of that you will have the skybar, then the roof which will slope upward towards the pitch. It will be massive.

 

[Clark28]

taken from @NewSpursStadium on twitter
current progress compared to this time last year.

 

[Wellspurs]

No ITK regarding Wembley or not in the next couple of days?

 

[Lilbaz]

No ITK regarding Wembley or not in the next couple of days?

29th i think.

 

[Sandro30]

Dan Kilpatrick‏@Dan_KP 4m 4 minutes ago
#thfc Spurs to confirm next season's Wembley move this afternoon or tomorrow. Seems everyone, inc Levy, is happy enough with new stadium.

 

[vicbob]

Now they are putting the concrete on the top main tier, it really shows how steep the rake is. Its going to feel really compact for a big stadium. The front row of the top tier seems to be almost looking down over where the goal would be (an exaggeration I know, but hopefully you get my point!).

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

What the fack is that? Looks like a tin house for hillbillies?

 

[manic041]

probably the sky lounge

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Apparently we've knocked it up for David Blaine's latest project

 

[vicbob]

Its the high diving board platform for when Sanchez comes to visit

 

[danielneeds]

Spurs beat journo, Dan Kilpatrick, says on Twitter the club to confirm Wembley move next year this afternoon or tomorrow...