Match Threads ManU Vs Spurs

[BPR_U16]

It would have done if those three players had turned up but they were all abysmal. You don't win football matches when your players are abysmal.

Question is why?

I do not recognise Bissouma from how he used to play at Brighton. Conte has obviously is asking him to play a certain way but is that detrimental to his game and is that why we bought him - for what how he could be adapted rather than what he was?

 

[Up From Dover]

After that display last night does anyone still think Spurs can get top 4? Or even defeat one of the "Big 6"?
The way things are going we'll be fighting Newcastle for 6th place.

When I saw Conte had picked three midfielders I was quite optimistic but none of them had good games. Again we got bypassed in midfield, pressed back to our own penalty area and whenever we did get the ball we promptly lost it.

I know Kulusevski & Richarlison were missing but would they have really made a difference? There was enough talent out there to put up a better showing than what we saw last night.

 

[worcestersauce]

Well I missed the whole thing. I unfortunately have had a heart attack, so I am currently lying on a bed in the local hospital Emergency department.

You lucky bastard.

Seriously though hope you get sorted out soon mate.

 

[Norgie]

I may be wrong but I felt yesterday was a game Richarlison would have relished in, balls to the feet spinning drawing fouls and most of putting himself about. We seemed to lack physicality up front yesterday. Yes I know they didn't get a huge amount of service but we needed some absolute shit stirrer up top winding them up.

 

[Yiddo1982]

I may be wrong but I felt yesterday was a game Richarlison would have relished in, balls to the feet spinning drawing fouls and most of putting himself about. We seemed to lack physicality up front yesterday. Yes I know they didn't get a huge amount of service but we needed some absolute shit stirrer up top winding them up.

Kind of disagree but not enough to use a rating...

Richy hasn't really demonstrated he can play back to goal so far. And his first touch has been largely woeful. This is why we miss Kulu on the right. He's the one who drops to collect the ball.

 

[faymantaray]

Well I missed the whole thing. I unfortunately have had a heart attack, so I am currently lying on a bed in the local hospital Emergency department.

Get well soon Sir x x

 

[cookiemonster]

Casemiro is the difference

That is the sort of elite player we should be buying

But it's never going to happen..better to buy bargains like Bissouma

 

[Duke of Northumberland]

After that display last night does anyone still think Spurs can get top 4? Or even defeat one of the "Big 6"?
The way things are going we'll be fighting Newcastle for 6th place.

When I saw Conte had picked three midfielders I was quite optimistic but none of them had good games. Again we got bypassed in midfield, pressed back to our own penalty area and whenever we did get the ball we promptly lost it.

I know Kulusevski & Richarlison were missing but would they have really made a difference? There was enough talent out there to put up a better showing than what we saw last night.

I think we'll get Top 4 and finish above Man Utd and the Scum. The Old Trafford luck kicked in again with the deflected goal and unfavourable bounces for the 2nd, which is not to say that we didn't struggle more than usual. I think the players are tired and we've got key injuries. We're not doing well in the big away games so there might also be something in what Cote was saying about handling the noise and pressure etc.

 

[Duke of Northumberland]

Totally agree, my thoughts exactly, in my opinion, Kane & Son looked terrified to make any challenge in case of injury, no effort, was watching them off the ball, standing still to a man. Disappointing to say the least.

Kane put through a few great attaching passes though, could/should have been assists, and it would've have been quite different.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

I think we'll get Top 4 and finish above Man Utd and the Scum. The Old Trafford luck kicked in again with the deflected goal and unfavourable bounces for the 2nd, which is not to say that we didn't struggle more than usual. I think the players are tired and we've got key injuries. We're not doing well in the big away games so there might also be something in what Cote was saying about handling the noise and pressure etc.

mate they gave us a pasting we were fortunate to lose by just 2 and apart Hugo having an excellent game we would have done. We have one player out injured who would play regularly and if we are tired a quarter in to the season heaven help us - the problems are we can't keep the ball we do not retain possession and when you play better sides they find you out. Nothing to do with handling pressure leaving huge gaps in the middle of the park allowing them to build and flood on to us because we want to drop so deep and not pressurising the ball was the problem we made Fred look like Zico - it was a poor performance

 

[Little Tommy Tucker]

Another false dawn.

 

[mpickard2087]

Watched this in an airport bar, at least I got to drown my sorrows. Disastrously bad performance where we got done in every aspect - desire, workrate, tactics, etc - before we even come on to quality of football. Tbh I lost interest at 2-0, but some thoughts on what I watched:

Lloris obviously the only one to come out with any credit. He shanked his first couple of kicks and then did his best to concede an absolute howler as his first actions, and you're thinking uh oh, but after that was a one man resistance outfit and he stopped it being an absolute walloping on the scoreboard.

The first thing I did this morning was look on here and Spurs social media about Romero, and disappointed to see that people are pussyfooting about over him. He was a fucking disaster zone last night, and if that was eg. Sanchez then forums would be clogged up with rage posts about it. Defensively all over the place and teams are definitely starting to work him and his charge!!! approach to defending out and he's got to be a bit more intelligent in it, and his use of the ball was aimless and abysmal. The other two at the back didn't play well, but he's been most erratic so far this season and below what he can be.

Wingbacks weren't up to it, yet again. Doherty might be a serviceable option against the majority of PL teams, I just don't think he has enough about his game - going either way - against the top bracket teams. Perisic I called about two weeks into the season, and hasn't changed. Some class intelligent touches but bizarrely timid at times and just seems to play in 'no mans land' and on the ball in pointless areas and offers very little in any aspect of general play.

Midfield, none of them played well. And we get onto......

Tactics/CM3 - I cautioned against this being a magic bullet, and numerous posts about how 5-3-2 can be exposed (defending as a midfield three rather than as a four...), and largely it happened last night. United would switch the play and shuffle it back inside ad infinitum, and stretched and stretched our central midfield and made them have to cover the whole width of the pitch until they were knackered, shape collapsed and they got ragged. They also did a great job of baiting Bissouma out of the centre to press or follow a man, working the ball about and then springing someone inbetween the lines in front of our defence. Their positional and pattern play completely over-ran and exposed us.

Kane and Son - might be our two best players, might have many years credit in the bank, Kane might be nearly a goal a game so far this season, Kane might have played some nice passes in the match...... But these two do kind of encapsulate Tottenham and our problems getting over the line in this era. They're flaky, they're prone to going missing, going into their shell, they are a bit fair-weather. If these are the two world class best players at the club just for once it would be nice if when we were under the cosh in a tight game for them to roll their sleeves up and say "right I'm doing something about this" . And that's not as in go and win the game with virtuoso magnificence, I mean just doing the fucking basics for your team. Running channels, pressing the opposition, competing for headers and loose balls, holding it under pressure, not giving the ball away. At least being a pest to play against and giving the opposition something to think about, setting standards as the "best players" and hopefully dragging the team up the pitch a bit. Far too often though they just roll over to have their tummies tickled. Last night I thought they were both really lazy passive little fuckers, they didn't help an over-run midfield one bit in trying to get at United and get the ball back or offer themselves for a relieving pass, and you expect and demand a lot more from them. Not good enough one bit.


Just an embarrassingly bad 90 minutes.

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

Disagree

We were poor 93rd and 94th too.

That has tickled me, a fleeting distraction from the rage at last nights performance.

 

[Guntz]

Casemiro is the difference

That is the sort of elite player we should be buying

But it's never going to happen..better to buy bargains like Bissouma

Bissouma was one of the best midfielders in the league last season and on paper was a fantastic signing for a very good price.

It's baffling how his forms dropped off a cliff though.

He genuinely can't even make simple passes for us - let alone dominate games on his own like he did last season.

 

[dimiSpur]

Watched this in an airport bar, at least I got to drown my sorrows. Disastrously bad performance where we got done in every aspect - desire, workrate, tactics, etc - before we even come on to quality of football. Tbh I lost interest at 2-0, but some thoughts on what I watched:

Lloris obviously the only one to come out with any credit. He shanked his first couple of kicks and then did his best to concede an absolute howler as his first actions, and you're thinking uh oh, but after that was a one man resistance outfit and he stopped it being an absolute walloping on the scoreboard.

The first thing I did this morning was look on here and Spurs social media about Romero, and disappointed to see that people are pussyfooting about over him. He was a fucking disaster zone last night, and if that was eg. Sanchez then forums would be clogged up with rage posts about it. Defensively all over the place and teams are definitely starting to work him and his charge!!! approach to defending out and he's got to be a bit more intelligent in it, and his use of the ball was aimless and abysmal. The other two at the back didn't play well, but he's been most erratic so far this season and below what he can be.

Wingbacks weren't up to it, yet again. Doherty might be a serviceable option against the majority of PL teams, I just don't think he has enough about his game - going either way - against the top bracket teams. Perisic I called about two weeks into the season, and hasn't changed. Some class intelligent touches but bizarrely timid at times and just seems to play in 'no mans land' and on the ball in pointless areas and offers very little in any aspect of general play.

Midfield, none of them played well. And we get onto......

Tactics/CM3 - I cautioned against this being a magic bullet, and numerous posts about how 5-3-2 can be exposed (defending as a midfield three rather than as a four...), and largely it happened last night. United would switch the play and shuffle it back inside ad infinitum, and stretched and stretched our central midfield and made them have to cover the whole width of the pitch until they were knackered, shape collapsed and they got ragged. They also did a great job of baiting Bissouma out of the centre to press or follow a man, working the ball about and then springing someone inbetween the lines in front of our defence.

Kane and Son - might be our two best players, might have many years credit in the bank, Kane might be nearly a goal a game so far this season, Kane might have played some nice passes in the match...... But these two do kind of encapsulate Tottenham and our problems getting over the line in this era. They're flaky, they're prone to going missing, going into their shell, they are a bit fair-weather. If these are the two world class best players at the club just for once it would be nice if when we were under the cosh in a tight game for them to roll their sleeves up and say "right I'm doing something about this" . And that's not as in go and win the game with virtuoso magnificence, I mean just doing the fucking basics for your team. Running channels, pressing the opposition, competing for headers and loose balls, holding it under pressure, not giving the ball away. At least being a pest to play against and giving the opposition something to think about, setting standards as the "best players" and hopefully dragging the team up the pitch a bit. Far too often though they just roll over to have their tummies tickled. Last night I thought they were both really lazy passive little fuckers, they didn't help an over-run midfield one bit in trying to get at United and get the ball back or offer themselves for a relieving pass, and you expect and demand a lot more from them. Not good enough one bit.


Just an embarrassingly bad 90 minutes.

Your post is spot on on 99%. I can't categorise Kane & Son as fair weather. It's a tad harsh, although I do agree that they didn't offer enough last night. Especially offering themselves in channels etc. Son came short more than Kane strangely enough.

I do think however that they must be a bit fatigued. They have played every game, 90 mins, twice a week for a good month now, non-stop. It must take it's toll mentally and physically.

Overall though I wholeheartedly agree with your post, especially Romero. If that was Sanchez last night, we'd have a litter of kittens each.

 

[Spurslove]

This is key. Forget about formations. Conte even touched on it in his post-match interview - our players are struggling to step up a level in the heat of the battle in these matches. Bentancur, Holjberg, Bissouma were all guilty of giving the ball away cheaply time and time again. It then seemed to become endemic with our defence all making similar mistakes, and Kane being totally bullied by their midget centre back. This is nothing to do with the shape of the team, this is players wilting under pressure.

It could be down to mental and physical fatigue having played so many matches in a short space of time, with little rotation. But in that case Conte needs to be a bit braver with his rotations. Maybe Skipp could have come in, or Gil given a start. Just to inject some freshness and energy.

I'm not one to criticise Conte too much because I understand we are in a process. And 10 months into his tenure we have made incredible progress from where we were under Nuno. But I will say the one area I want to see him improve is his squad rotation. He has never been one to rotate much. It is well documented that he likes to have a settled 11. And I alluded to this many times in the summer when people were trying to make a cases for why we need 6 CM's and 6 wing backs etc...This is lost on Conte because he rarely rests players for the sake of it.

He needs to develop this part of his management imo. The physical demands and intensity of playing prem and champions league each week is too much to expect players to perform at the same level every 2-3 days. I think that was evident last night. Conte needs to start trusting more of his squad. A fresh and hungry player of lower quality will sometimes be better for overall team performance than a fatigued player of higher quality.

I just want to point out, that all our main rivals for a champions league place have equally tough schedules and unlike ourselves, seem to be flying, playing great football. Liverpool had a bit of a slow start but they've just recently clicked into gear. I'm sorry but I just don't buy the fatigue angle.

Where I absolutely agree with you, last nights abomination had nothing whatsoever to do with the formation. It was the collective, catastrophic failure of ten players to play any football.

Every players has 'off days' but last night, we seemed to have ten of them, and worryingly, not for the first time have we been absolute pants.

 

[Spunkmonkey]

Bissouma was one of the best midfielders in the league last season and on paper was a fantastic signing for a very good price.

It's baffling how his forms dropped off a cliff though.

He genuinely can't even make simple passes for us - let alone dominate games on his own like he did last season.

Maybe his previous manager is a better coach and motivater of players.

 

[Spurslove]

I'm going to be glass half full in that ManU had a good game yesterday and we just kept giving the ball away needlessly. Very frustrating yes but I'm wanting to believe that it was an off day and that we will regroup and go again in the next game. We'll see but I can only hope that is the case as we need to a win against a very good Newcastle team.

I'd love to the the stats (if any exist) of just how many times last night we were robbed of the ball in possession. This is one of the many elephants in the room for me (yeah, big room).

We play our main rivals, like Chelsea, Goon Scum, Liverpool, United, City... and we never seem to be able to get the ball off 'em, especially away from home, yet they find it dead easy to nick the ball off us, almost at will by chasing the ball and the man, and when they do that in our defensive areas, it scares the living bejesus out of me.

This is why I HATE to see us trying to play the ball out from defence, especially when we're playing an aggressive side like any of those I mentioned.

Oh for a return to those halcyon days of 2016/17/18 when it was US who were doing the pressing and terrorising defences.

 

[Mr Pink]

I think it's obvious what we are trying to do, draw them in then play through the press to release our forward line. It's what we did last season but those passes that were finding players last season, for some reason this season aren't unless Kulu is in there.

As for the lack of changes I completely agree, like I said last night was baffling all around from both Conte and the players.

But do you not think there's times were we need to adapt and change the approach?

They pressed hard and very effectively...mix it up and go long, take the pressure off for a spell.

Bypass the midfield and their press

 

[Tony-Bish]

Maybe his previous manager is a better coach and motivater of players.

Or he needs more time. Some players take time, we need to be patient and support players with encouragement
——
The whole team really lacked energy last night, barely any movement off the ball and United’s energy in the press was excellent, they won every 50/50 as a result of their hunger.

was disappointed in Conte, seemed he gave up on the game after their second with 20 minutes left, was crying out for someone who could turn a player when pressed, would have thrown Moura or Gil on at that point