Jose Mourinho

[Mattspurs1982]

Nah. We’re in a cup final and shout for top 4. Pointless sacking him until those two things are no longer a possibility.

I believe he should go BECAUSE we still have these possibilities ?

 

[rez9000]

That is exactly how proper management works, and when you have given an individual multiple opportunities to improve, yet they don't, that is when you come to the decision to cut them loose.

We could reel off a fairly long list of players that have had multiple opportunities, under both JM and Poch, who have consistently failed to deliver.

The problem in Football is the fixed term contract. A player can metaphorically flip the bird to the manager, even the Chairman, and not face the sack, they'd just not get the contract renewed. As a result of this, they can down tools on a manager they don't like with a high likelihood that it'll get the manager sacked, then perform for the new manager to get what they want. Unfortunately, these players, as we've seen ourselves, are not good enough to be 1st team regulars, so they might get some game time early doors under a new manager, but they'll soon be back on the bench/in the reserves because they're simply not good enough. Then the cycle repeats itself until that manager gets sacked.

This isn't a solving JM of any blame btw, but what I can't get my head around is how early in the season we were playing with a solid defensive structure. Everyone knew their place and we were setting those traps that counterattack Football requires, then we just stopped doing it.
Then after a change of tact, with a more proactive front foot approach that saw us put a number of teams to the sword, we've once again just stopped doing it.

They were doing both well, before they inexplicably stopped, so it tells me that it was coached and they were carrying out the instructions. But they stopped doing both for no discernible reason. We were winning games with both approaches, so why stop?

One thing is for certain, they weren't instructed to stop.

So I still think he will be sacked, the alternative will be to effectively give away these "bad apple" players as no one will pay the wages their on for the performance level they've displayed. So, as I said previously, I feel we have some very dark days ahead because these players won't be leaving us anytime soon. The ones that will are the ones we don't want to leave.

And what's worse is that when we sack Mourinho, this will give those players who have agitated license to do it again. They've seen it works and the club does precisely what they want to happen and if the next manager does things they don't like, they'll be happy to do it again.

Essentially, what happened with John Terry at Chelsea. He led a war against Mourinho, got him sacked and for all intents and purposes became the de facto ruler of Stamford Bridge. When Conte was appointed and again tried to reduce his role, it was Terry again that was the focal point of the problems Conte faced. Not the only factor in Conte's fractious relationship with Chelsea I readily acknowledge, but still one of the focal points. Who ran the club again descended into a tug of war between the dressing room and the manager's office.

Do we want the same at Spurs?

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

View attachment 84242

I don’t think he will do it but I’m looking at it from the clubs point of view. No point sacking an established manager for a caretaker when there is still opportunity to end the season positively.

 

[Beni]

Speaking as an employment lawyer, this a pretty narrow way of looking at it. If one person is underperforming, sure.

But in practice, if an entire team is underperforming, you don't put all of them on performance management. You look at the manager first.

Not wanting to derail this thread with management talk. I agree with you and said in another post. If the team is underperforming the manager is looked at. However performance is monitored on an individual basis based on objectives set out, that is a metrical data that can be measured based on the ‘What’ and the ‘How’ the individual has gone about in working towards these objectives.

 

[Robhotspur]

I look at the last 2 games and what it looks too me is the squad know kane and son are leaving or at least will if mourinho remains. If a manager makes going to work a chore you would find a new job. Footballers like all of us respond accordingly when life becomes uncertain.. I suppose £200million might buy us the sort of defence mourinho needs. But a manager that plays dier/sanchez ahead of alderwiereld/rodon has lost the plot.. A manager that keeps playing winks is suspect. A manager that takes the fun out of football, takes that x-factor out of a good player.. Sorry Jose I've grown to quite like you but the MLS is calling you. Take the call while the offers still there.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

This sounds like a contradiction to me. So there’s plenty of other coaches that could get this squad playing better but it’s the players fault?

Moirinho is meant to be our leader and all I can see is that he’s overseeing a fractured squad that has no confidence, is playing with loads of fear and is generally playing well below its capabilities.

No doubt the players share responsibility on this too but the buck stops with the manager.

Not at all what I was saying, What I meant was it’s on the players, and they should be showing up regardless of the tactics/manager above them.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

That was a valid point when we still had the Europa in our sights. None of us realistically think we’ll be turning City over in the final and nothing, absolutely zero points to us turning our league form around to challenge for a top four place. None of the teams above us look like they’re dwindling. Can’t see how it makes any difference now to him being here or not tbh.

I think it’s highly unlikely as well but not totally unrealistic. We have beaten City twice since Mourinho has been in charge. And now we’ll only be playing 1 match a week until the end of the season there is no need for rotation, which should help our league form.

I wanted him gone as well but think it’s better in the summer. Sacking him now won’t guarantee better results.

 

[spids]

If it's based on form why are you picking Ndombele or Lo Celso and picking Sissoko?

Toby I thought struggles to play back to back games and we have to manage his minutes, seems a perfect time to rest him in a tie where we are 2-0 up? I mean the other day people were having a go at Jose for overplaying Son.

I think you're just using the benefit of hindsight, I watched that game and the players we had out there had more than enough ability to see the game out.

1. Ndombele and Lo Celso are both significantly better both offensively and defensively than Winks. Especially when paired with Sissoko (who is better defensively than any of them). I also would not have brought Højbjerg on at the end of the first leg to get a yellow card as though as these things always come back and bite you.

2. Can Toby really not play back to back games? He hardly ran anywhere on Sunday as we camped out on the edge of our box for the entire game. Dier and Sanchez is proven to be a very poor pairing at CB.

And whilst hindsight is always beneficial in this case, like many on here, when the team was announced I shook my head in disbelief and was pretty concerned at the Winks/Sissoko and Dier/Sanchez pairings in the heart of our team.

 

[Ionman34]

I know you wrote more, and I agree on a lot, but I think this subject is interesting.

In my mind, there is hardly a way for Harry Winks to be succesful in a Mourinhoteam. Winks do have plenty of qualities, but none are similar to N'dombele and his ability to break through lines with the ball, and he doesn't have the ballwinning abilities of Højbjerg. On the other hand, he is very good when on the ball, and very good at moving the ball quickly. Our system (if it qualifies as one) is all based on individuals making decisions on the run, and not a lot is structured. Thus, Winks is put in a position where his major skill is close to unusable. To move the ball quickly you have to know in advance where your teammates are, or are going to be. Then you can make decisions based upon a lot of factors. When you first have to find out where your teammates are, and if they are making a run, then it's hardly possible to factor in where there are options to attack and so on. Furthermore, when you are such a player, and you're not put into a system, then playing every now and then, and with different teammates around you all of the time, really doesn't make it easier to shine.

Now, is Winks the second coming of Hoddle? No, of course not. Is Harry Winks a really good midfielder, who could thrive in a role that is suited to his skills? Yes, and he has shown that. He might not be the most ambitious midfielder ever, but he doesn't have to be necessarily. Can he be blamed for his so called dissapointing performances? I, at least, do not think he has been given a chance to actually perform.

I'm sorry but that is patently untrue. Whilst JM was busy getting Ndombele up to speed, Winks was a virtual ever present in our midfield, along with Sissoko, in a team that took us to the top of the league. The match day threads were littered with posts about how "shit" he was, even to the point where I was defending him, saying he's not "shit," he's just not good enough for where we want to be. Yet he was still able to turn in good performances when he carried out the instructions given to him by the manager. The Leeds game was a prime example, where i felt he had an excellent game. That game in particular we pressed them high up the pitch, gave them avenues to pass into that WE wanted, then pounced to take the ball off them. Winks, alongside Hojbjerg was integral to that, giving us the platform to get 2 of the 3 goals by nicking the ball off them in dangerous areas.

This demonstrated what I'd been banging on about for a while, execute the managers instructions and we can win games fairly comfortably. This is the press that JM and his coaching team keep telling at our players to carry out. Clearly it has been coached because they've done it previously, but they just stopped doing it for some unknown reason.

Kane has said that their instructions are to play higher up the pitch, but the players aren't doing it, now Lloris has stated that the instructions were to get at them early, get an early goal, but the players didn't do it.

To carry out these instructions, you are reliant on your midfield. It's the engine room that dictates the play. It's the midfield that enable a team to play further up the field by dictating the centre of the pitch. If they're being out worked or overrun then the team will naturally drop back, thereby exposing any defensive frailties whilst, at the same time, nullifying any attacking threat we have by isolating them as well as not being able to supply them as they can't get the ball or hold onto it. Even when they do they don't have an Avenue of release because they're all deep in our own half, the forwards, being isolated, need to drop back to get any chance of seeing the ball, and are relatively ineffective because when they do get the ball they're having to wade through a set defence.

Now JM could, and should, be held accountable for not changing things in the midfield when that overrun is happening, but we then need to look at who he has to turn to and what they've done when he has.

Dele? When was the last time he affected a game positively from midfield either starting or off the bench in the last 2-3 years?

Lo Celso? Injured for most of this so JM hasn't had that luxury, but showed what we've been missing on Thursday as he was full of industry, covered every blade of grass and tried his heart out.

Winks? The guy has been bagged out relentlessly on here as being not good enough, with justification too, though some of the "hate" towards him is disgusting at times.

Sissoko? See above.

Lamela? Just about the go to guy now when we need a game changer. He's one of the few who will inject intensity into our play coming off the bench. In fact scratch that, he's the ONLY midfielder who can do that.

I've said it for a while now, our midfield, for me, is our biggest weakness as we have too many ordinary players unable to dictate a game. Hojbjerg can do it but he's getting run into the ground as a result of the lack of alternatives. We've even had posters saying we're fucked if we lose him long term to injury. Well he was suspended against Zagreb and we got what we got, so they definitely have a point. Ndombele we all agree is a talent, but how does that talent flourish when we're being overrun in midfield due to those around him not putting in the hard yards?

Winks thinks he's a playmaker, a metronome who should be in Ndombele's position dictating our play, but he's not good enough. JM can see that, we can see that. The only person who can't is Winks.
Dele thinks he's a superstar. He coasted under Poch and got away with it because he'd pop up with a goal when virtually everyone was calling for him to be hooked. FFS Dele is effectively a trademark on here! Unfortunately, all I see is a player living off a hype reputation atm. He undoubtedly has talent, but nowhere near what the hype suggests. He could elevate his game, but that requires a shed load of hard work he's evidently not prepared to carry out.

I've rambled somewhat here, but the truth, as I see it, is that our deepest issues lie in our midfield. It's where I think the worst of the "bad eggs" are, and it's the area that exposes us the most.

That, for me, is the first area to be addressed in order to see us start rectifying the issues we currently have.

 

[lemony snickets]

I think it’s highly unlikely as well but not totally unrealistic. We have beaten City twice since Mourinho has been in charge. And now we’ll only be playing 1 match a week until the end of the season there is no need for rotation, which should help our league form.

I wanted him gone as well but think it’s better in the summer. Sacking him now won’t guarantee better results.

I hear you mate, just lost all hope this season. I think next year after we’ve gotten rid of him and failed to even get ropa dopa football, we can then solely focus on a domestic cups and league football played on Saturdays again for most part, with a new man at the helm and with some solid signings and some luck keeping hold of Kane and Son, challenge for top four without the distractions of Spursday night football.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Anything profound been said in the last 24 hours or are we still in a vicious cycle of ‘it’s the players faultI’ v. ‘It’s Mourinho’s fault’ with a smidgeon of ‘fuck Levy’ in there too?

I’m exactly where I was after Zagreb. I accept our players overall are a notch below what we need, but still believe that they’re a notch above what Mourinho is achieving with them. I do not believe that there are either 4 better squads or 4 better first teams in this league, and I do not believe that coached properly these players would struggle to implement a style which should see us win the pay two matches comfortably (as well as many others).

I want Mourinho out while also have hope he can turn it around.

 

[spids]

I think it’s highly unlikely as well but not totally unrealistic. We have beaten City twice since Mourinho has been in charge. And now we’ll only be playing 1 match a week until the end of the season there is no need for rotation, which should help our league form.

I wanted him gone as well but think it’s better in the summer. Sacking him now won’t guarantee better results.

The bit I have bolded is a key point. The reason the likes of West Ham and Everton are doing so well is that they have not had distractions and they have their best XI fit and well prepared for every league game.

If we can keep people fit and consistently play this team at weekends now I would think we have a good shout of chasing down 4th.

Lloris
Aurier Sanchez Toby Reguillon
Højbjerg
Ndombele Lo Celso
Bale Kane Son​

It all depends on the tactics (we need to show more ambition offensively) and the player's motivation (are they still giving their all?).

 

[Metalhead]

I look at the last 2 games and what it looks too me is the squad know kane and son are leaving or at least will if mourinho remains. If a manager makes going to work a chore you would find a new job. Footballers like all of us respond accordingly when life becomes uncertain.. I suppose £200million might buy us the sort of defence mourinho needs. But a manager that plays dier/sanchez ahead of alderwiereld/rodon has lost the plot.. A manager that keeps playing winks is suspect. A manager that takes the fun out of football, takes that x-factor out of a good player.. Sorry Jose I've grown to quite like you but the MLS is calling you. Take the call while the offers still there.

My feeling is - and it is disappointing that it's not worked out - that talk of him being sacked if we lose to Villa or even if we fail to finish top 4 is arbitrary. It's about whether the team is progressing and whilst, yes, he was brought in to win trophies and I do personally consider them important, one league cup (assuming we can even beat a very strong city side) is not by itself a sign of a team on the up. It has to go hand in hand with a team that can then go on to challenge for trophies next season and the way that we are going with two steps forward and then two steps back is not indicative of that.

 

[ohtottenham!]

And what's worse is that when we sack Mourinho, this will give those players who have agitated license to do it again. They've seen it works and the club does precisely what they want to happen and if the next manager does things they don't like, they'll be happy to do it again.

Essentially, what happened with John Terry at Chelsea. He led a war against Mourinho, got him sacked and for all intents and purposes became the de facto ruler of Stamford Bridge. When Conte was appointed and again tried to reduce his role, it was Terry again that was the focal point of the problems Conte faced. Not the only factor in Conte's fractious relationship with Chelsea I readily acknowledge, but still one of the focal points. Who ran the club again descended into a tug of war between the dressing room and the manager's office.

Do we want the same at Spurs?

Think both Jose and Terry had run their courses at that point with Chelsea. A bit like Jose and some Spurs players we need to shift right now. Unfortunately, we didn't go through the preliminary stage of success that Jose and Terry enjoyed, because we're Spurs and not bankrolled like Chelsea were.

Think Jose's done here, the squad issues will remain, but that's for Levy to sort out.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

i'm not sure why people are having a go at those who defended him, especially now when this hurtful result has us all very raw, people's first instinct is to have a pop for supporting the guy? This has hurt all of us. But it will be a relief to see an end to the constant to and fro bickering, so there's that at least.

Anyway, sadly, after this I just can't see where we go with Mourinho other than a parting of the ways, it just hasn't worked.

Mr A & C, you're a truly loveable rogue. Of that there is no doubt. But...

Bold parts 1 & 2 - Do you mean in the same way as members on here have a go at people who have defended Levy? And the first instinct of those who haven't defended Levy, is to have a pop at those who have?

One is understandable but the other isn't?

Bold part 3 - Of course it just hasn't worked. It never was going to work. Even the simpleton currently typing this knew that, and he was in a coma when the appointment happened. Some of us even said, back in 2018, just in general conversation, that the guy would be a disaster at this club. That we didn't have the players that suit his anti-football tactics (tactics ), or the fans to accept it.

It was never going to be anything other than a complete disaster.

Of course, ultimately the blame lies with Levy, as he's once again fucked up a managerial appointment and, seemingly, fucked up even more by not giving himself/the club am exit route from the stupidly big contract that he happily handed Mourinho. How does such an astute businessman make such a glaring error? Absolutely unfathomable!

Anyway, slag Mourinho off, don't slag Mourinho off. It doesn't matter which you are because, either way, he's still a monumental prick who should never have been allowed near our club.

And just because I haven't said it yet. Mourinho is a ****.

 

[olliec]

I look at the last 2 games and what it looks too me is the squad know kane and son are leaving or at least will if mourinho remains. If a manager makes going to work a chore you would find a new job. Footballers like all of us respond accordingly when life becomes uncertain.. I suppose £200million might buy us the sort of defence mourinho needs. But a manager that plays dier/sanchez ahead of alderwiereld/rodon has lost the plot.. A manager that keeps playing winks is suspect. A manager that takes the fun out of football, takes that x-factor out of a good player.. Sorry Jose I've grown to quite like you but the MLS is calling you. Take the call while the offers still there.

A manager needs to rotate as we’ve had the longest season out of all clubs. Hence why he plays winks, Dier and Sissoko against weak sides with a 2 goal cushion thinking it will be enough.

 

[YB123]

The bit I have bolded is a key point. The reason the likes of West Ham and Everton are doing so well is that they have not had distractions and they have their best XI fit and well prepared for every league game.

If we can keep people fit and consistently play this team at weekends now I would think we have a good shout of chasing down 4th.

Lloris
Aurier Sanchez Toby Reguillon
Højbjerg
Ndombele Lo Celso
Bale Kane Son​

It all depends on the tactics (we need to show more ambition offensively) and the player's motivation (are they still giving their all?).

Cant believe people on here still persevering with Sanchez or Dier in the team. Incredible.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

nonsense. Should have been sold post champions league, hasn't shown up for a few seasons.Stop rewarding mediocrity.

I will bet my account that if we sell Dele this summer and keep Jose, Dele will win a trophy before Jose does.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

And what's worse is that when we sack Mourinho, this will give those players who have agitated license to do it again. They've seen it works and the club does precisely what they want to happen and if the next manager does things they don't like, they'll be happy to do it again.

Essentially, what happened with John Terry at Chelsea. He led a war against Mourinho, got him sacked and for all intents and purposes became the de facto ruler of Stamford Bridge. When Conte was appointed and again tried to reduce his role, it was Terry again that was the focal point of the problems Conte faced. Not the only factor in Conte's fractious relationship with Chelsea I readily acknowledge, but still one of the focal points. Who ran the club again descended into a tug of war between the dressing room and the manager's office.

Do we want the same at Spurs?

Conte was backed by the board and fans in giving Terry they ole' stanky boot though.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

What the hell good are we going to say about the Mourinho cycle?

That we won the Carabao Cup. It's going to happen lads.

I've already seen it, Jose kneesliding along the touchline at Wembley when our second goal goes in on 83 mins.

Emotionally talking to the Journo's after the game telling them that it's his best ever achievement in football.

I've seen the movie.