- Aug 2, 2011
- 3,057
- 7,156
Nah. We’re in a cup final and shout for top 4. Pointless sacking him until those two things are no longer a possibility.
I believe he should go BECAUSE we still have these possibilities ?
Nah. We’re in a cup final and shout for top 4. Pointless sacking him until those two things are no longer a possibility.
And what's worse is that when we sack Mourinho, this will give those players who have agitated license to do it again. They've seen it works and the club does precisely what they want to happen and if the next manager does things they don't like, they'll be happy to do it again.That is exactly how proper management works, and when you have given an individual multiple opportunities to improve, yet they don't, that is when you come to the decision to cut them loose.
We could reel off a fairly long list of players that have had multiple opportunities, under both JM and Poch, who have consistently failed to deliver.
The problem in Football is the fixed term contract. A player can metaphorically flip the bird to the manager, even the Chairman, and not face the sack, they'd just not get the contract renewed. As a result of this, they can down tools on a manager they don't like with a high likelihood that it'll get the manager sacked, then perform for the new manager to get what they want. Unfortunately, these players, as we've seen ourselves, are not good enough to be 1st team regulars, so they might get some game time early doors under a new manager, but they'll soon be back on the bench/in the reserves because they're simply not good enough. Then the cycle repeats itself until that manager gets sacked.
This isn't a solving JM of any blame btw, but what I can't get my head around is how early in the season we were playing with a solid defensive structure. Everyone knew their place and we were setting those traps that counterattack Football requires, then we just stopped doing it.
Then after a change of tact, with a more proactive front foot approach that saw us put a number of teams to the sword, we've once again just stopped doing it.
They were doing both well, before they inexplicably stopped, so it tells me that it was coached and they were carrying out the instructions. But they stopped doing both for no discernible reason. We were winning games with both approaches, so why stop?
One thing is for certain, they weren't instructed to stop.
So I still think he will be sacked, the alternative will be to effectively give away these "bad apple" players as no one will pay the wages their on for the performance level they've displayed. So, as I said previously, I feel we have some very dark days ahead because these players won't be leaving us anytime soon. The ones that will are the ones we don't want to leave.
Speaking as an employment lawyer, this a pretty narrow way of looking at it. If one person is underperforming, sure.
But in practice, if an entire team is underperforming, you don't put all of them on performance management. You look at the manager first.
This sounds like a contradiction to me. So there’s plenty of other coaches that could get this squad playing better but it’s the players fault?
Moirinho is meant to be our leader and all I can see is that he’s overseeing a fractured squad that has no confidence, is playing with loads of fear and is generally playing well below its capabilities.
No doubt the players share responsibility on this too but the buck stops with the manager.
That was a valid point when we still had the Europa in our sights. None of us realistically think we’ll be turning City over in the final and nothing, absolutely zero points to us turning our league form around to challenge for a top four place. None of the teams above us look like they’re dwindling. Can’t see how it makes any difference now to him being here or not tbh.
If it's based on form why are you picking Ndombele or Lo Celso and picking Sissoko?
Toby I thought struggles to play back to back games and we have to manage his minutes, seems a perfect time to rest him in a tie where we are 2-0 up? I mean the other day people were having a go at Jose for overplaying Son.
I think you're just using the benefit of hindsight, I watched that game and the players we had out there had more than enough ability to see the game out.
I'm sorry but that is patently untrue. Whilst JM was busy getting Ndombele up to speed, Winks was a virtual ever present in our midfield, along with Sissoko, in a team that took us to the top of the league. The match day threads were littered with posts about how "shit" he was, even to the point where I was defending him, saying he's not "shit," he's just not good enough for where we want to be. Yet he was still able to turn in good performances when he carried out the instructions given to him by the manager. The Leeds game was a prime example, where i felt he had an excellent game. That game in particular we pressed them high up the pitch, gave them avenues to pass into that WE wanted, then pounced to take the ball off them. Winks, alongside Hojbjerg was integral to that, giving us the platform to get 2 of the 3 goals by nicking the ball off them in dangerous areas.I know you wrote more, and I agree on a lot, but I think this subject is interesting.
In my mind, there is hardly a way for Harry Winks to be succesful in a Mourinhoteam. Winks do have plenty of qualities, but none are similar to N'dombele and his ability to break through lines with the ball, and he doesn't have the ballwinning abilities of Højbjerg. On the other hand, he is very good when on the ball, and very good at moving the ball quickly. Our system (if it qualifies as one) is all based on individuals making decisions on the run, and not a lot is structured. Thus, Winks is put in a position where his major skill is close to unusable. To move the ball quickly you have to know in advance where your teammates are, or are going to be. Then you can make decisions based upon a lot of factors. When you first have to find out where your teammates are, and if they are making a run, then it's hardly possible to factor in where there are options to attack and so on. Furthermore, when you are such a player, and you're not put into a system, then playing every now and then, and with different teammates around you all of the time, really doesn't make it easier to shine.
Now, is Winks the second coming of Hoddle? No, of course not. Is Harry Winks a really good midfielder, who could thrive in a role that is suited to his skills? Yes, and he has shown that. He might not be the most ambitious midfielder ever, but he doesn't have to be necessarily. Can he be blamed for his so called dissapointing performances? I, at least, do not think he has been given a chance to actually perform.
I think it’s highly unlikely as well but not totally unrealistic. We have beaten City twice since Mourinho has been in charge. And now we’ll only be playing 1 match a week until the end of the season there is no need for rotation, which should help our league form.
I wanted him gone as well but think it’s better in the summer. Sacking him now won’t guarantee better results.
I think it’s highly unlikely as well but not totally unrealistic. We have beaten City twice since Mourinho has been in charge. And now we’ll only be playing 1 match a week until the end of the season there is no need for rotation, which should help our league form.
I wanted him gone as well but think it’s better in the summer. Sacking him now won’t guarantee better results.
My feeling is - and it is disappointing that it's not worked out - that talk of him being sacked if we lose to Villa or even if we fail to finish top 4 is arbitrary. It's about whether the team is progressing and whilst, yes, he was brought in to win trophies and I do personally consider them important, one league cup (assuming we can even beat a very strong city side) is not by itself a sign of a team on the up. It has to go hand in hand with a team that can then go on to challenge for trophies next season and the way that we are going with two steps forward and then two steps back is not indicative of that.I look at the last 2 games and what it looks too me is the squad know kane and son are leaving or at least will if mourinho remains. If a manager makes going to work a chore you would find a new job. Footballers like all of us respond accordingly when life becomes uncertain.. I suppose £200million might buy us the sort of defence mourinho needs. But a manager that plays dier/sanchez ahead of alderwiereld/rodon has lost the plot.. A manager that keeps playing winks is suspect. A manager that takes the fun out of football, takes that x-factor out of a good player.. Sorry Jose I've grown to quite like you but the MLS is calling you. Take the call while the offers still there.
Think both Jose and Terry had run their courses at that point with Chelsea. A bit like Jose and some Spurs players we need to shift right now. Unfortunately, we didn't go through the preliminary stage of success that Jose and Terry enjoyed, because we're Spurs and not bankrolled like Chelsea were.And what's worse is that when we sack Mourinho, this will give those players who have agitated license to do it again. They've seen it works and the club does precisely what they want to happen and if the next manager does things they don't like, they'll be happy to do it again.
Essentially, what happened with John Terry at Chelsea. He led a war against Mourinho, got him sacked and for all intents and purposes became the de facto ruler of Stamford Bridge. When Conte was appointed and again tried to reduce his role, it was Terry again that was the focal point of the problems Conte faced. Not the only factor in Conte's fractious relationship with Chelsea I readily acknowledge, but still one of the focal points. Who ran the club again descended into a tug of war between the dressing room and the manager's office.
Do we want the same at Spurs?
i'm not sure why people are having a go at those who defended him, especially now when this hurtful result has us all very raw, people's first instinct is to have a pop for supporting the guy? This has hurt all of us. But it will be a relief to see an end to the constant to and fro bickering, so there's that at least.
Anyway, sadly, after this I just can't see where we go with Mourinho other than a parting of the ways, it just hasn't worked.
A manager needs to rotate as we’ve had the longest season out of all clubs. Hence why he plays winks, Dier and Sissoko against weak sides with a 2 goal cushion thinking it will be enough.I look at the last 2 games and what it looks too me is the squad know kane and son are leaving or at least will if mourinho remains. If a manager makes going to work a chore you would find a new job. Footballers like all of us respond accordingly when life becomes uncertain.. I suppose £200million might buy us the sort of defence mourinho needs. But a manager that plays dier/sanchez ahead of alderwiereld/rodon has lost the plot.. A manager that keeps playing winks is suspect. A manager that takes the fun out of football, takes that x-factor out of a good player.. Sorry Jose I've grown to quite like you but the MLS is calling you. Take the call while the offers still there.
The bit I have bolded is a key point. The reason the likes of West Ham and Everton are doing so well is that they have not had distractions and they have their best XI fit and well prepared for every league game.
If we can keep people fit and consistently play this team at weekends now I would think we have a good shout of chasing down 4th.
Lloris
Aurier Sanchez Toby Reguillon
Højbjerg
Ndombele Lo Celso
Bale Kane Son
It all depends on the tactics (we need to show more ambition offensively) and the player's motivation (are they still giving their all?).
nonsense. Should have been sold post champions league, hasn't shown up for a few seasons.Stop rewarding mediocrity.
And what's worse is that when we sack Mourinho, this will give those players who have agitated license to do it again. They've seen it works and the club does precisely what they want to happen and if the next manager does things they don't like, they'll be happy to do it again.
Essentially, what happened with John Terry at Chelsea. He led a war against Mourinho, got him sacked and for all intents and purposes became the de facto ruler of Stamford Bridge. When Conte was appointed and again tried to reduce his role, it was Terry again that was the focal point of the problems Conte faced. Not the only factor in Conte's fractious relationship with Chelsea I readily acknowledge, but still one of the focal points. Who ran the club again descended into a tug of war between the dressing room and the manager's office.
Do we want the same at Spurs?
What the hell good are we going to say about the Mourinho cycle?