Honeymoon Over?...

[dricha1]

Appreciate the debate good & bad - didn't expect so much abuse from some though

I may not be a regular poster (is that a crime?) but I have read this site and all the discussions good and bad religiously for several years now and decided to be "brave" and start a discussion last night - didn't realise there were certain rules about starting so called "pointless" posts as suggested in a few posts above. If we had the foresight to predict what someone would deem a pointless post then I am sure the SC forum would lack some serious debate...and be poorer for it.

Anyway back to what prompted my post last night. Since the victory over Arsenal there has been a lot of over the top reaction - here and in other forums - as to where the current squad is..top 4 being spouted quite regularly. Last night offered the chance - as stated by Ramos before the game - to guage the squad and I felt imho that we fell short and for a few reasons mainly a midfield that isn't quite good enough. This isn't a fault of Ramos - he has quickly fixed the worse areas of the team, namely the defence - but he needs to identify 3 midfielders to take us to the top 4 level and ideally these need to provide us bite, balance, creativity and free kick specialist would be a bonus!

Yes I take the point of someone saying Arsenal twice, United twice and Chelsea, City away being top performances (we only won 3 out of those 6 fixtures though) but I could counter with Birmingham twice, Reading twice (including the 6-4, exciting yes but good - no), Everton away (I was at this game we did well to hang on for a point), Boro away, Villa away, Chelsea away and all the UEFA games.

A lot of good work has gone on behind the scenes - we are definately fitter - and Ramos is clearly backed by the board, makes a big difference when everyone is singing from the same song sheet, but I do think some perspective is needed.

Ramos is the right man, but his hard work starts now he needs to ensure the team plays to the intensity of the cup final week in week out and then we might make the top 4.

To all the detractors :shake:, I am off to put my bullet proof vest in prepation of more abuse!

 

[yanno]

dricha1 - now that's a good post. I also respect your lurking here a while before posting - although that's a personal twitch of mine not shared by all.

Emotions were running high last night, but I didn't think it was the time to be questioning Ramos and that is one reason why I reacted so negatively to this thread.

You're correct that Ramos did challenge the squad to stand up and be counted before yesterday's match, and they largely failed the test. However, as I posted in another thread here:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=28432

I believe that's largely because his gameplan came unstuck once it was clear how off the pace poor old Gilberto was.

Good on you for posting again tonight, and I look forward to having intelligent discussions about our famous club with you.
:cheers:

 

[dricha1]

Cheers Yanno!

And I fully expect the might whites to demolish PSV on Weds - it would be so Spurs!

 

[southcalispur]

I'd happily eat humble pie if you pick good performances other than the CC final, City away, Arsenal lge and cup, Man Utd games, Wigan at home ?

how about pompy away? derby away? even everton away?

 

[N10toN17]

Appreciate the debate good & bad - didn't expect so much abuse from some though

I may not be a regular poster (is that a crime?) but I have read this site and all the discussions good and bad religiously for several years now and decided to be "brave" and start a discussion last night - didn't realise there were certain rules about starting so called "pointless" posts as suggested in a few posts above. If we had the foresight to predict what someone would deem a pointless post then I am sure the SC forum would lack some serious debate...and be poorer for it.

Anyway back to what prompted my post last night. Since the victory over Arsenal there has been a lot of over the top reaction - here and in other forums - as to where the current squad is..top 4 being spouted quite regularly. Last night offered the chance - as stated by Ramos before the game - to guage the squad and I felt imho that we fell short and for a few reasons mainly a midfield that isn't quite good enough. This isn't a fault of Ramos - he has quickly fixed the worse areas of the team, namely the defence - but he needs to identify 3 midfielders to take us to the top 4 level and ideally these need to provide us bite, balance, creativity and free kick specialist would be a bonus!

Yes I take the point of someone saying Arsenal twice, United twice and Chelsea, City away being top performances (we only won 3 out of those 6 fixtures though) but I could counter with Birmingham twice, Reading twice (including the 6-4, exciting yes but good - no), Everton away (I was at this game we did well to hang on for a point), Boro away, Villa away, Chelsea away and all the UEFA games.

A lot of good work has gone on behind the scenes - we are definately fitter - and Ramos is clearly backed by the board, makes a big difference when everyone is singing from the same song sheet, but I do think some perspective is needed.

Ramos is the right man, but his hard work starts now he needs to ensure the team plays to the intensity of the cup final week in week out and then we might make the top 4.

To all the detractors :shake:, I am off to put my bullet proof vest in prepation of more abuse!

Good post dricha, don't let the bastards get you down, some very touchy people on here, a few layed into you last night because we'd been beaten and then the sheep followed.

 

[SpurSince57]

I did notice you've actually been a member for some time, Dricha, so I didn't join in. I can be a little abrasive at times and emotions were running high last night.

I think the bottom line is, although there's been a general upward trend and some great results, Juande is discovering what Martin did. If we have our best available XI we're well up there; if we don't, we're not. Also, there is only so much a coach, however good, can do; the players have to deliver, and last night quite a few didn't. Last night—and I'm surprised no-one else has mentioned this (and apologise if they have and I've missed it)—was very similar in many ways to their win over Arsenal at the Death Star last season.

In the next round, they held Liverpool 0-0 at Anfield—and then Liverpool spanked them 3-0 in Eindhoven.

 

[Ironskull]

I think you got evrything you deserved. "honeymoon is over" is neg-speak for "the manager's no good", even when followed by a ?

 

[Tottenham_OZpur]

who cares, can we not wait until we have a least finished this campaign to see where we are? Our matches last year were a fucking gift by the way. And remember we had a change of manager slap bang in the middle of the campaign, so all things considered we havent dont that badly. How about you get behind the team?

If we hadnt have got a 'by' last year we may have gone out to dutch opposition in the last 16.

fucking moan moan moan.

o dear :roll:

I haven't in any way not been behind the team and certainly aint moaning about Ramos, as I have always been behind his appointment and backed Levy over it as Ramos is a step up

as I said was just agreeing with a part of the thread and gave reasons why which is being constructive, I believe the stats would prove it.

I know we got lucky in the bye round, but we were playing that well in Europe last season I think we would have got through pretty easily though, before the Sevilla round we had won every game I think, where as this season we have lost two and a draw so far at home which is not great

in regard to 'gift matches', that just aint true, Besiktas beat pool at home this season in the CL if I remember correct, we actually beat em last season, winning at Leverkusen is not a gift also, they have a lead in the first leg :wink:

 

[N10toN17]

I did notice you've actually been a member for some time, Dricha, so I didn't join in. I can be a little abrasive at times and emotions were running high last night.

I think the bottom line is, although there's been a general upward trend and some great results, Juande is discovering what Martin did. If we have our best available XI we're well up there; if we don't, we're not. Also, there is only so much a coach, however good, can do; the players have to deliver, and last night quite a few didn't. Last night—and I'm surprised no-one else has mentioned this (and apologise if they have and I've missed it)—was very similar in many ways to their win over Arsenal at the Death Star last season.

In the next round, they held Liverpool 0-0 at Anfield—and then Liverpool spanked them 3-0 in Eindhoven.

I think your right ss too many players underperformed and I've a sneaky feeling we might go better against them over there as they'll have to come out more in front of their home fans, which should suit us, hopefully.

 

[N10toN17]

o dear :roll:

I haven't in any way not been behind the team and certainly aint moaning about Ramos, as I have always been behind his appointment and backed Levy over it as Ramos is a step up

as I said was just agreeing with a part of the thread and gave reasons why which is being constructive, I believe the stats would prove it.

I know we got lucky in the bye round, but we were playing that well in Europe last season I think we would have got through pretty easily though, before the Sevilla round we had won every game I think, where as this season we have lost two and a draw so far at home which is not great

in regard to 'gift matches', that just aint true, Besiktas beat pool at home this season in the CL if I remember correct, we actually beat em last season, winning at Leverkusen is not a gift also, they have a lead in the first leg :wink:

Good posts oz, your not talking down Ramos or the team merely pointing out that our uefa cup form so far hasn't been to hot.

When you consider we've only lost 3 home European games in our entire history, 2 have come this season which is disappointing.

 

[AngerManagement]

I think your right ss too many players underperformed and I've a sneaky feeling we might go better against them over there as they'll have to come out more in front of their home fans, which should suit us, hopefully.

OR they might sit back and play on the counter thinking that they managed to contain us pretty well at the Lane and knowning that if they stop us scoring again they will progress to the next round.

I wouldnt be at all suprised to see them play in a very similar fashion to which they did on Thursday evening.

However I hope/expect us to play with a great deal more effort and desire to create and score goals.

No doubt we are capable of creating chances and scoring against them. We just need a higher standard of performance from every man who steps on the field in our shirt.

 

[N10toN17]

OR they might sit back and play on the counter thinking that they managed to contain us pretty well at the Lane and knowning that if they stop us scoring again they will progress to the next round.

I wouldnt be at all suprised to see them play in a very similar fashion to which they did on Thursday evening.

However I hope/expect us to play with a great deal more effort and desire to create and score goals.

No doubt we are capable of creating chances and scoring against them. We just need a higher standard of performance from every man who steps on the field in our shirt.

Yeah could be right am, they might just sit, but it's always much harder to do that at home as the supporters will want them to get forward and dominate.

 

[dricha1]

Always a cliche - but the first goal IS vital on Wednesday (should the match go ahead of course).

Ramos got it spot on last season against us, and Sevilla went with a fast start. I expect something similar on Wednesday - and ideally Jenas will be fit or has he been ruled out yet?

 

[DC_Boy]

our uefa cup form hasn't been as good this season and it is partly down to that first defeat by Getafe, when Jol was in charge - had we not lost thaat game we probably would have topped the group and got a better draw -

so while JR's UEFA games this season haven't been as good as last season's - neither were Jol's

 

[Kendall]

I expect us to go all out attack from the first whistle. We really have nothing to lose.

Much like Sevilla at the lane last year, we need to go there and stun them

 

[Gilzeanking]

Ta Calispur...the away victory(under Ramos) against Pompey was stunning , don't like to see it ignored like this