Defensive Coach

[Blake Griffin]

defending begins from the front, don't be fooled into thinking that replacing four defenders with four new ones is going to change much.

 

[IGSpur]

The defense is not the sole reason why we are conceding goals. If you play a hard pressing game the whole team needs to work coherently. If they don't then massive holes leave the defense vulnerable to being overloaded by the oppositions runners from midfield as well as attackers. Ultimately it's the front 4 not pressing coherently which is leaving us so open at the back. So we don't need a defensive coach. We need Poch to knock some heads together and get the current front 4 to work harder or change personnel to those who will adhere to the system.

That and that same 4 losing the ball up the pitch. You will get Townsend, Chadli, Eriksen and Lamela up the pitch supported by their full backs as expected with Mason just behind them the only one making runs to break thr lines. When any of them get dispossessed or make a bad pass they counter then people blame the full backs for being out of position or not getting back quick enough like their superman. Then you've got Bentaleb and Mason (providing he hasn't just tried to make a run and do something different) trying to hold up play and cover full back positions as well as CM.

People then go onto complain either one of Bentaleb or Mason (or both) aren't good enough or lack defensive awareness as they can't cover the whole of the pitch.

Has anyone ever watched Barcelona when they get countered on. They look all over the place and vulnerable. That's because they've got all their players up the pitch. The reason it doesn't happen as much is because their front 4 keep the ball for fun and create chances around the oppositiona area.

 

[IGSpur]

My name is Christian Eriksen and I do not understand this reference.

Sorry mate. It's like Murphy's Law. It's just a joke some people use to describe the problems at Tottenham.Of course Poch has a great defensive record but not with us. Same as when we buy a set piece specialist and they instantly lose their ability to beat a wall or the first man at a corner. Lasagnagate so forth and so forth

 

[Jimmyjimmyo]

We seem unable to defend set pieces, our CB's allow players to win free headers on a constant basis and only a fantastic keeper and poor finishing has kept us in a lot of games.

Clearly there is an issue and I think players like Vertonghen could do more with his cb partner in terms of using his experience to organise and Marshall that back line and keep everyone focused instead we see the same players having almost weekly brainfarts when any pressure is put on them

 

[Sweech]

Sorry mate. It's like Murphy's Law. It's just a joke some people use to describe the problems at Tottenham.Of course Poch has a great defensive record but not with us. Same as when we buy a set piece specialist and they instantly lose their ability to beat a wall or the first man at a corner. Lasagnagate so forth and so forth

I may not have been totally truthful.

My name is not Christian Eriksen and I did understand the reference.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Poch started in a World Cup for a nation which has won the tournament on a defensive back line. I think he knows how to set up a back line. I think we can also agree that the quality of our defenders is not worse than Hull's, Swansea's, Aston Villa's, West Brom's, Sunderland's, etc's, each of which have conceded less than us. Erego, according to deductive reasoning, that leaves us with the very obvious solution that the problem lies elsewhere, either in other personnel or the system.

With respect to Poch, results say otherwise.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

defending begins from the front, don't be fooled into thinking that replacing four defenders with four new ones is going to change much.

If you think this team is going places with Walker in it next season you are sadly mistaken. It really does not matter who forms the immediate midfield duo in front of our most used back four, the result will be the same. You know Blake if things don't change they will stay the same. I have no doubt that Poch has been working on the defence but i have seen little effect from that over the whole season. He has already brought (according to reports) one defender, and has Yedlin and Davies in the waiting in the wings.

To continue with the current back four is just futile. Change all four? well i would obviously keep Dier and Rose in the squad but the remainder i care not where they end up. For Poch to just keep picking the same four is to me plain stupid.

 

[Cavehillspur]

Poch started in a World Cup for a nation which has won the tournament on a defensive back line. I think he knows how to set up a back line. I think we can also agree that the quality of our defenders is not worse than Hull's, Swansea's, Aston Villa's, West Brom's, Sunderland's, etc's, each of which have conceded less than us. Erego, according to deductive reasoning, that leaves us with the very obvious solution that the problem lies elsewhere, either in other personnel or the system.

You may find this hard to believe but each of those sides you have mentioned have ALL conceded fewer goals than us this season (yes even Villa and Sunderland!) shocking stuff. We have the 5th worst defensive record in the league (only Toon and the bottom 3 are worse than us), it's abysmal and needs addressed pronto. The display in the past 2 games in particular is extremely concerning. I think we've kept one clean sheet in 2015?

Some of the personnel aren't up to scratch so hopefully gets sorted as a priority in the summer.

Just as a comparison to a rival. Saints have conceded 21 goals in the league this season to our ..... 45 wtf imagine where we might be if we could defend.

 

[Blake Griffin]

If you think this team is going places with Walker in it next season you are sadly mistaken. It really does not matter who forms the immediate midfield duo in front of our most used back four, the result will be the same. You know Blake if things don't change they will stay the same. I have no doubt that Poch has been working on the defence but i have seen little effect from that over the whole season. He has already brought (according to reports) one defender, and has Yedlin and Davies in the waiting in the wings.

To continue with the current back four is just futile. Change all four? well i would obviously keep Dier and Rose in the squad but the remainder i care not where they end up. For Poch to just keep picking the same four is to me plain stupid.

since tony pulis took over at west brom they've managed to keep eight clean sheets in 14 games, why is that? do west brom have a world class back four? no, they have a manager who sets the team up in a way that makes them defensively compact, not just the back four, the entire team. poch has spurs playing an open/attacking setup to compensate for a lack of goals outside of two or three players with two attacking full backs, two non-dm players in central midfield and what is in effect four attackers. so you can say oh we concede goals, it must the back four's fault and yes, they will be culpable to some degree but they're not the only players in the team tasked with defending. this isn't american football, you don't have a separate offense and a defense, the team is a collective expected to do both.

 

[DaSpurs]

You may find this hard to believe but each of those sides you have mentioned have ALL conceded fewer goals than us this season (yes even Villa and Sunderland!) shocking stuff. We have the 5th worst defensive record in the league (only Toon and the bottom 3 are worse than us), it's abysmal and needs addressed pronto. The display in the past 2 games in particular is extremely concerning. I think we've kept one clean sheet in 2015?

Some of the personnel aren't up to scratch so hopefully gets sorted as a priority in the summer.

Just as a comparison to a rival. Saints have conceded 21 goals in the league this season to our ..... 45 wtf imagine where we might be if we could defend.

Actually I find it rather easy to believe, as that's exactly why I cited them

That's the point though, clearly it isn't the quality of our defenders. Most of those same defenders (3/4) were on that same back line when we went into October of last season tied for the best defensive record in Europe. The only difference is Dawson. Therefore, if people are suggesting it is the fault of the defenders specifically, they are quite literally suggesting that Eric Dier is so much worse than Michael Dawson, that all of our problems can be blamed on him.

 

[DaSpurs]

With respect to Poch, results say otherwise.

What they suggest is that there's a problem, not necessarily that the problem is with the back line, its shape, or its personnel. Football is entirely too complex to say: "get scored on a lot, defense sucks; don't score enough, strikers suck." This is even furthered in modern football, and especially in a unique system such as Poch's where the defending starts from the front.

 

[Geyzer Soze]

What they suggest is that there's a problem, not necessarily that the problem is with the back line, its shape, or its personnel. Football is entirely too complex to say: "get scored on a lot, defense sucks; don't score enough, strikers suck." This is even furthered in modern football, and especially in a unique system such as Poch's where the defending starts from the front.

But the fukups they make

I hear you, there is alot more to defending than the back line, sure, speaking generally and theoretically. But I also have eyes and watch the games, and we watch them fuck up time and again, they are so often caught napping, improperly positioned, slow to get back, too far forward ... and and and

 

[DaSpurs]

But the fukups they make

I hear you, there is alot more to defending than the back line, sure, speaking generally and theoretically. But I also have eyes and watch the games, and we watch them fuck up time and again, they are so often caught napping, improperly positioned, slow to get back, too far forward ... and and and

I agree actually, they are often caught out of position too often.

But let's look at the similarities and differences between our outstanding defensive record at the beginning of last year and this one.

Goalkeeper: same dude, and I'd say he's even improved
Back line: only change is Dawson for Dier, which I would consider an upgrade despite the former's experience
Midfield: here is an overhaul, as we were playing with Dembele, Paulinho, and Capoue in two midfield slots while now playing exclusively Mason and Bentaleb
Attacking midfield: no change
Striker: Kane instead of Soldado, and Kane absolutely presses better

So while taking that into consideration, we are left with only 1) the system, 2) the manager, and/or 3) the midfield as our culprit(s).

Considering also that your observations are right that the defense is so often improperly positioned, too far forward, and slow in getting beaten in behind, I'd say the common theme there is a high line. Are the midfield not shielding them appropriately? I would say they are, as evidenced by the fact Mason is winning 2.47 tackles a game, while as the closest among Paulinho, Dembele, and Capoue from last year won 2.07 tackles per game. So its clear the midfield is at least trying to prevent the problem.

This leaves us with the manager and/or the system. As the manager has not changed his system whatsoever all season, I would argue we could almost say they're one and the same (it's also easier to rule out the manager since he hasn't really been able to mold the squad into one he wants). Therefore, I think it's the system, which includes such an absurdly high line and relies on strong defending from the midfield and forwards. As our defenders know what they're doing as evidenced by last season, I think it's the defending from the front which is the problem, which is consequently allowing our defenders to be exposed in behind, thereby forcing them to constantly be running down plays from behind, making their mistakes look all the worse, and appearing to be improperly positioned.

 

[dude573]

I think our defensive issues coincide with the fact that we lose the ball far too easily in the midfield. Lamela, Mason, Chadli and surprisingly recently even Bentaleb are missing passes more often than not.

 

[DaSpurs]

I think our defensive issues coincide with the fact that we lose the ball far too easily in the midfield. Lamela, Mason, Chadli and surprisingly recently even Bentaleb are missing passes more often than not.

Agreed, and I think that's part of the result of playing the exact same system and formation every single week. Your passing lanes and tendencies get entirely mapped out, and are consequently not difficult to instruct again. The double pivot midfield is also not dynamic enough, therefore making the system even more stale and easy to map out.It is as simple as "if Mason or Bentaleb receives the ball, begin to collapse on the wingers."

This makes us more likely to concede the ball, makes it too easy for us to be countered, and the high line are essentially sitting ducks for a counter in behind.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

What they suggest is that there's a problem, not necessarily that the problem is with the back line, its shape, or its personnel. Football is entirely too complex to say: "get scored on a lot, defense sucks; don't score enough, strikers suck." This is even furthered in modern football, and especially in a unique system such as Poch's where the defending starts from the front.

You really are in cloud cuckoo-land with your rhetoric.

This "unique" system such as Poch's is anything but that. It's used throughout the vast majority of clubs in Europe, and South America. Hell, I've seen this so called "unique" system many a time played down Hackney Marshes.

You are over-complicating a simple fact. We are piss poor at defending and the coach who happens to be an ex-International defender is at a loss on how to fix the problem. That is little to do with the players we have but the stupidity of trying the same thing over and over again. That's the only thing that is "entirely too complex" about this coaches tactics and system.

 

[DaSpurs]

You really are in cloud cuckoo-land with your rhetoric.

This "unique" system such as Poch's is anything but that. It's used throughout the vast majority of clubs in Europe, and South America. Hell, I've seen this so called "unique" system many a time played down Hackney Marshes.

You are over-complicating a simple fact. We are piss poor at defending and the coach who happens to be an ex-International defender is at a loss on how to fix the problem. That is little to do with the players we have but the stupidity of trying the same thing over and over again. That's the only thing that is "entirely too complex" about this coaches tactics and system.

Okay, so then you are in fact suggesting Eric Dier is such a corruptible influence on our defense that we should probably douse him in gasoline before whatever plague is in his sinews spreads to the rest of London?

3/4 of our current back line, Walker, Vertonghen, and Rose, were playing when we were tied for the best defensive record in Europe two months into last season. As the single only difference is Dier, and we have conceded considerably more goals, for you to suggest the fault lies entirely with the back line, you are quite literally suggesting Eric Dier is the sole instigating factor in our decline, and an astoundingly worse player than Dawson.

Personally, I think that view is incredibly poor logic, and I think you are oversimplifying the hell out of the game. It is quite literally not as simple as "many goals against: shit defenders, not enough goals: shit strikers." That is stunningly simple, and if it were the case you must be utterly stupefied at how much money, resources, and time are spent on managers, coaching, and equipment in developing players, tactics, and systems.

And no, you haven't seen this system everywhere else. Vast majority of clubs across Europe and South America? What are you referring to, inverted wingers? A high line? Humans?

Have a look, might learn ya somethin: http://eplindex.com/37849/marcelo-bielsas-tactical-influence-mauricio-pochettino-tactics.html

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Okay, so then you are in fact suggesting Eric Dier is such a corruptible influence on our defense that we should probably douse him in gasoline before whatever plague is in his sinews spreads to the rest of London?

3/4 of our current back line, Walker, Vertonghen, and Rose, were playing when we were tied for the best defensive record in Europe two months into last season. As the single only difference is Dier, and we have conceded considerably more goals, for you to suggest the fault lies entirely with the back line, you are quite literally suggesting Eric Dier is the sole instigating factor in our decline, and an astoundingly worse player than Dawson.

I could pick four geezers from down the street from where i live who could put in a good defensive record the group stages of the EL. Bloody hell you will have to come up with something a little more creative than that one.

Wasn't Verts, Rose and Walker among the poor souls that Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Citeh ran over during AVB's and Sherwood reign?

 

[DaSpurs]

I could pick four geezers from down the street from where i live who could put in a good defensive record the group stages of the EL. Bloody hell you will have to come up with something a little more creative than that one.

Wasn't Verts, Rose and Walker among the poor souls that Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Citeh ran over during AVB's and Sherwood reign?

Not in European cup competition, in all UEFA leagues, right up until that game against Citeh.

Yes, they were there. But do you honestly think that was right down to the defense? Isn't that what we're talking about how overly simplified you're viewing a full field game? And if so, how do you explain the fact that we've conceded more goals this season yet less against those three clubs this season? Wouldn't it have been a linear decline, proportional with how shit our goal tally is this year if it were as simple as solely the decline of our defenders' capabilities? Is not that evidence enough to you that the problem includes the players ahead of them in the various systems they're used in?

 

[shelfmonkey]

You may find this hard to believe but each of those sides you have mentioned have ALL conceded fewer goals than us this season (yes even Villa and Sunderland!) shocking stuff. We have the 5th worst defensive record in the league (only Toon and the bottom 3 are worse than us), it's abysmal and needs addressed pronto. The display in the past 2 games in particular is extremely concerning. I think we've kept one clean sheet in 2015?

Some of the personnel aren't up to scratch so hopefully gets sorted as a priority in the summer.

Just as a comparison to a rival. Saints have conceded 21 goals in the league this season to our ..... 45 wtf imagine where we might be if we could defend.

We REALLY have got our Spurs back!!