Cardiff record signing Sala on missing plane

[fluffybunnyuk]

Before anyone gets ideas... landing checks

B- rakes
U- ndercarriage
M- ixture is rich
F- uel - quantity and pump on (if necessary)
I- nstruments - engine temps and pressures in the green, artificial horizon aligned, compass and directional indicator agree
C- arb Heat is hot
H- atches are secure
H- arnesses are secure

Flaps biggles flaps...

 

[wooderz]

Flaps biggles flaps...

Ha I was taught flaps are later, when making the turn to base!

 

[Spurrific]

This thread is about two missing guys, more than likely that have passed. Only on SC would that be reduced to flaps chat.

 

[fluffybunnyuk]

This thread is about two missing guys, more than likely that have passed. Only on SC would that be reduced to flaps chat.

Yes, because we appreciate what that pilot went through. I've heard cockpit voice recordings that haunted me for months. There just arnt words to describe these things. Sadly one of the ways of becoming a better pilot is through learning of what went before. Its very easy to gain a dark sense of humour very fast when someone dies especially a fellow pilot, and especially if its a friend. It shouldnt be misunderstood however.

 

[wooderz]

Yes, because we appreciate what that pilot went through. I've heard cockpit voice recordings that haunted me for months. There just arnt words to describe these things. Sadly one of the ways of becoming a better pilot is through learning of what went before. Its very easy to gain a dark sense of humour very fast when someone dies especially a fellow pilot, and especially if its a friend. It shouldnt be misunderstood however.

Of course not demeaning things at all, have nothing but sorrow for what happened. If I'm honest it was nice to speak to a fellow pilot and I got a bit carried away...

 

[Spurrific]

Of course not demeaning things at all, have nothing but sorrow for what happened. If I'm honest it was nice to speak to a fellow pilot and I got a bit carried away...

Sorry guys, I wasn’t @ing either of you or trying to say you were being insensitive. It was just a comment on the way everything ends up about flaps to be honest with ya

 

[wirE]

You know it’s game over when they announce that the rescue search is now a search for recovery of the missing persons

What a tragic story this is..?

 

[Rocksuperstar]

If you want to be scared i'd direct you to Alaska 261. Although you'd probably be better off not listening to that. You'll sleep better not listening to it.

damn... I listen to a lot of aviation recordings of events, it's always so tense, the silence/hiss of dead air is just haunting as shit, then when they key the radio and you can hear the stress in their voice but it's always distant, like they're trying to talk while doing a billion other things to try and stop this mad crap happening.

The sort of resigned-to-it way that the other pilots commentate 261 on it's way down is heart wrenching. They are watching it unfold for what must feel like ages and they know they can't do a thing about it. Heavy.

 

[fluffybunnyuk]

damn... I listen to a lot of aviation recordings of events, it's always so tense, the silence/hiss of dead air is just haunting as shit, then when they key the radio and you can hear the stress in their voice but it's always distant, like they're trying to talk while doing a billion other things to try and stop this mad crap happening.

The sort of resigned-to-it way that the other pilots commentate 261 on it's way down is heart wrenching. They are watching it unfold for what must feel like ages and they know they can't do a thing about it. Heavy.

Thats 15 minutes you'll never forget. Its worse when you realise near the end their inverted trying to hold it together. Its a textbook case of risk management, and how-not-to. I'll skip the details i think here, its grim beyond belief, and it'd shatter many peoples cherished notions of flying. Good luck with putting it out of your mind, i still hear bits in my head 15 years after i first heard it.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

Flight 2605, western airlines. Is horrific. We heard it as part of a training session when I worked at Heathrow. I felt sick after.

It's horrible.for the families, this poor lad, the pilot and anyone else.

 

[Freund's Magic Right Foot]

Flight 2605, western airlines. Is horrific. We heard it as part of a training session when I worked at Heathrow. I felt sick after.

It's horrible.for the families, this poor lad, the pilot and anyone else.

Wow that’s horrific, to hear that kind of primal fear before the final impact isn’t something I’ll forget in a hurry. Obviously after @fluffybunnyuk mentioned Alaska 261 I had to hit google but that’s a whole other level.

Back to this week thoughts to Sala, the pilot and all involved

 

[N17 Kebab]

Such a sad story. Sky making a drama out of the conversation between the player and agent about the flight is completely inappropriate.
Don’t see what the point is of sharing the dialogue, which is completely normal until the extraordinary event, except to sell their coverage irrespective of morality

 

[nailsy]

Neil Warnock seems to be struggling with this. I know he's got a bad reputation but I feel sorry for him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47028192

 

[inclineyid]

Thats 15 minutes you'll never forget. Its worse when you realise near the end their inverted trying to hold it together. Its a textbook case of risk management, and how-not-to. I'll skip the details i think here, its grim beyond belief, and it'd shatter many peoples cherished notions of flying. Good luck with putting it out of your mind, i still hear bits in my head 15 years after i first heard it.

I don't want to listen to either recording and appreciate your stark warnings. I am interested to know what you mean by 'inverted trying to hold it together' and why it was a text book case of how not to do things re risk management. If you don't mind explaining these 2 things further that is.

 

[fluffybunnyuk]

I don't want to listen to either recording and appreciate your stark warnings. I am interested to know what you mean by 'inverted trying to hold it together' and why it was a text book case of how not to do things re risk management. If you don't mind explaining these 2 things further that is.

Large jets arnt built to fly upside down. In this particular case it caused the pumps to stop.Flying upside down involves reversing your yoke control, its a lot of additional stress when trying to troubleshoot.
It was/is a textbook case because the real tragedy was there were many points at which the passengers could have been saved. After making the first mistake, it led to a 2nd and 3rd, and so on until they lost track of the 1st, and it became life/death struggle. Which relates to how difficult it is to extricate yourself the further down that chain you get. Yes the primary cause was the elevator screw bolt/screw failing. The pilots ended up operating outside the flight operating manual most likely out of desperation. The opportunity to save the plane wasnt at the end but the closer to the start of events. The operating manual was altered to make clear the correct remedial behaviour.
In summary it started with a failure, and through the airline company itself, and the maintenance problems it set up a maelstrom that could have been avoided. It was in part caused/led to pilot errors, and as such it is worth flying in a professional simulator as a training exercise.
Any technical failure is possible on any crate, but its how the pilot responds that can help determine the outcome. Hudson Bay ditching a few years ago after a bird strike is a good example of the progression thats been made in pilot training and risk management techniques.

The above post is personal opinion, clouded by the effects of 15 odd years.

 

[inclineyid]

Large jets arnt built to fly upside down. In this particular case it caused the pumps to stop.Flying upside down involves reversing your yoke control, its a lot of additional stress when trying to troubleshoot.
It was/is a textbook case because the real tragedy was there were many points at which the passengers could have been saved. After making the first mistake, it led to a 2nd and 3rd, and so on until they lost track of the 1st, and it became life/death struggle. Which relates to how difficult it is to extricate yourself the further down that chain you get. Yes the primary cause was the elevator screw bolt/screw failing. The pilots ended up operating outside the flight operating manual most likely out of desperation. The opportunity to save the plane wasnt at the end but the closer to the start of events. The operating manual was altered to make clear the correct remedial behaviour.
In summary it started with a failure, and through the airline company itself, and the maintenance problems it set up a maelstrom that could have been avoided. It was in part caused/led to pilot errors, and as such it is worth flying in a professional simulator as a training exercise.
Any technical failure is possible on any crate, but its how the pilot responds that determines the outcome. Hudson Bay ditching a few years ago after a bird strike is a good example of the progression thats been made in pilot training and risk management techniques.

The above post is personal opinion, clouded by the effects of 15 odd years.

Thank you very much for this. I read up on both the crashes mentioned above today. Absolutely tragic.

 

[fluffybunnyuk]

Thank you very much for this. I read up on both the crashes mentioned above today. Absolutely tragic.

People shouldnt be scared of flying. But neither should someone be blase about it.People think of it as they do a taxi, and it just isnt that simple.

 

[inclineyid]

People shouldnt be scared of flying. But neither should someone be blase about it.People think of it as they do a taxi, and it just isnt that simple.

No absolutely I agree. I remember Dennis bergkamp refused to fly at all didn't he. I had a flying lesson for a birthday present once it was amazing. I'd love to have been a pilot but think it's a bit late in the day now at 38 to try! I'd love to watch some documentaries that you rate on such crashes and what may have hopefully been learned from them. In closing what an awful tragedy this was for the Cardiff boy and of course for the Leicester helicopter earlier in the season. I must say, and your words echo and increase my feeling, that even if I was a billionaire I wouldn't fly on the type of very small aircraft that these recent two crashes have occurred in. I remember Matthew harding too and they seem a lot more vulnerable to me although no idea if stats back this up. I just don't think anywhere is that urgent to get to that you need to use a helicopter from the centre circle of a football match immediately after a game for example.

 

[Freund's Magic Right Foot]

You said the opportunity to maybe save the plane was closer to the beginning. Would that have been in the hour they tried work through the control issue before they had the first dive?

 

[fluffybunnyuk]

Well if you dont want to fly. Consider booking an hour on a professional simulator maybe as a present. They'll take you through flying an approach to final lining up with the runway. You'll understand how the workload is on the descent compared to level flying (given that you've already planned what your doing) You dont have to do it from a flying perspective, but as a risk management training exercise. Its a takeaway skill to apply to other things in life..