Phischy
The Spursy One
- Feb 29, 2004
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Great post, tonnes of great info... This bit I've quoted neatly packages up my theory and boots it out the window! Good to know anyway.
New Stadium Details And Discussions
- Thread starter fozzi44
- Start date
Phischy
The Spursy One
- Feb 29, 2004
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I was thinking this...
spursfan77
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2005
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No I'm not mate. The hotel next to the stadium is a training hotel for the leisure industry. It was in the new new stadium plans. They had to make it that as they couldn't get a hotel operator to locate in Tottenham.
davidmatzdorf
Front Page Gadfly
- Jun 7, 2004
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It's not clear from the Times article whether the £350m referenced there is the same as the bridging finance. There would be nothing unusual about replacing £350m of bridging finance with £350m of longer term finance on better terms. But it doesn't say, one way or the other.
We aren't "short" by any amount of money. It doesn't really work like that. They'll be negotiating and renegotiating various packages of finance, some secured on the NDP, some perhaps equity investors, some re naming rights, as the project goes forward. At any key stage, they need to know that they have enough funding secured and available for draw-down that they can get to the next key stage. As the value of the partly-completed project increases, there will be more security available for more borrowing, without having to charge other assets of the club. So they might refinance as they go along.
I'm not even sure whether the funding facilities for the NDP are being kept separate from funding to manage the ongoing cash requirements of the club. It could be either way.
I guess the underlying point is that any discussion here that takes a (highly contentious and probably wrong) headline figure for the total cost of the development, compares it to the headline figure for one borrowing facility and concludes that the difference represents how much we still need to borrow to finish the job is creating a very simplistic picture.
Let's say the total cost of the NDP is £750m, which is one of the figures floating about in media-land. Does that include the many parts of the scheme that are going to be cash-flowed by others (Sainsbury's, the residential towers, the hotel)? Does it include development costs already incurred or not due in the near future, including land acquisition (paid for 10 years ago), Lilywhite House (completed and cash-flowed mainly by Sainsbury's) and the hotel/residential scheme (not even through planning yet)?
All these headline figures in the press are basically bullshit. They need a figure to put in a headline, but they never define it. They just make sure it's higher than the last figure, because that generates more clicks. I'd counsel ignoring those figures and also ignoring the headline figures for borrowing facilities. None of us can come up with a meaningful answer that way.
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davidmatzdorf
Front Page Gadfly
- Jun 7, 2004
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That was a while ago. The economy has moved on since then. The hotel hasn't even got detailed planning consent yet. Let's come back in 3-4 years and find out what they intend for the hotel, because I very much doubt that the developers themselves know at this stage.
spursfan77
Well-Known Member
- Aug 13, 2005
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Exactly, you know as well as I do how things can change. In the original plans the hotel was scrapped then it resurfaced in the new plans. It's the next stage anyway but we wouldn't be surprised if they changed it, reduced the size, made it serviced apartments etc or managed to find an operator once the stadium is up and running. There might be more appetite for it then. Like you say, who knows right now. We've not even a development partner yet for that part of the scheme. I know the club are close to Lendlease but that's yet to go out to final tender unless I've missed the news.
- Oct 17, 2006
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Last night I dreamt that the stadium was almost completed when they realized that they had made no provisions to get the cranes out. So they kept us at Wembley for another season while they dismantled the new stadium to get them out. The only thing is that they couldn't put it back together without the cranes! We ended up buying Wembley instead. Too much wine before bed me thinks 
KingKay
Well-Known Member
- Apr 16, 2004
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Last night I dreamt that the stadium was almost completed when they realized that they had made no provisions to get the cranes out. So they kept us at Wembley for another season while they dismantled the new stadium to get them out. The only thing is that they couldn't put it back together without the cranes! We ended up buying Wembley instead. Too much wine before bed me thinks
Are you sure it was wine?
whitesocks
The past means nothing. This is a message for life
- Jan 16, 2014
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Very informative.
I do find £750m/£800m figure for the stadium alone plausible though - comparing it to the Emirates.
I also wonder if there would be trouble refinancing against a development that supposedly will not have a roof until the last few weeks - you yourself thought that could be an issue a few years back. Once it is complete then there will be loads of options.
But I don't think this financial gap can be too much of a problem - there always seemed to be a gap, but the club has not been deterred. With one of the richest men the world backing the project and all things being equal, great expectations that this project should pay off handsomely in 5 to 10 years, then I am starting to have doubts about the telegraph's claim that finance is causing the delay.
davidmatzdorf
Front Page Gadfly
- Jun 7, 2004
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It depends how the security works. It's not clear to us how much of the funding for the NDP is secured on the NDP itself, how much (if any) is secured on other THFC assets and how much does not require an asset to be charged, because it is from an equity investor, a naming rights deal or advance receipts for hospitality and corporate tickets.
The element of finance that is secured on the NDP itself would normally be limited to a percentage of the value of the NDP. But the value of the NDP is increasing monthly, as more and more gets built.
I'm not sure the roof has any magic significance. My experience (including direct experience - my own house - as well as work) is that you get the valuer back every few months and their updated valuation is linked to the percentage of the work that has been completed. As long as you can keep the value of the loan under 70% (typically) of the value of the security, you're in compliance with the loan conditions.
But I'm speculating, because I have zero ITK about how THFC's borrowing strategy is set up. Much like the rest of SC
.
worcestersauce
"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
- Jan 23, 2006
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Didn't Joe Lewis say he wouldn't sell the club for a billion pounds so there's one valuation.
L-man
Misplaced pass from Dier
- Dec 31, 2008
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Tottenham Hotspur@SpursOfficial 8m8 minutes ago
We have agreed an extension until 30 April 2017 with WNSL in respect of the option to play home games at @wembleystadium next season...
Tottenham Hotspur@SpursOfficial 8m8 minutes ago
...this is to give ourselves greater flexibility before making the final decision on the decommissioning of White Hart Lane.
Tottenham Hotspur@SpursOfficial 7m7 minutes ago
Our intention remains to spend next season at @wembleystadium before returning to our new stadium in Tottenham for the 2018/19 season.
We have agreed an extension until 30 April 2017 with WNSL in respect of the option to play home games at @wembleystadium next season...
Tottenham Hotspur@SpursOfficial 8m8 minutes ago
...this is to give ourselves greater flexibility before making the final decision on the decommissioning of White Hart Lane.
Tottenham Hotspur@SpursOfficial 7m7 minutes ago
Our intention remains to spend next season at @wembleystadium before returning to our new stadium in Tottenham for the 2018/19 season.
- Oct 17, 2006
- 10,701
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Yes, hard for you as you are not Daniel Levy.
ERO
The artist f.k.a Steffen Freund - Mentalist ****
- Jun 8, 2003
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He got us Van der Vaart in 35 mins. Don't dare to think what he'd achieve in 30 days if he really put his heart into it...
onlyonekeano
Well-Known Member
- Dec 28, 2004
- 198
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Good to see Carr back in the right back position
No, it's Pat VAN den Hauwe.
