The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

therhinospeaks · Jun 21, 2019

wrd said:
Thats fair but I think theres a difference between saying Poch is judged harshly by some people and suggesting that every youth watcher having a sweeping bias towards every single youth player.

As you say it may change in the future but so far the club has pretty much got it right if the 3 names mentioned are the examples, none of them would get near our 25 and at best maybe we could have made a few million out of them, thats not a bad record.

Do you count KWP in our 25?

wrd · Jun 21, 2019

therhinospeaks said:
Do you count KWP in our 25?

No he is still young enough not to have to be included I think.

Blake Griffin · Jun 21, 2019

wrd said:
No he is still young enough not to have to be included I think.

he'll need to be registered this season so hopefully that forces us into making a proper decision on him.

IGSpur · Jun 21, 2019

wrd said:
I can't name one single player in the last 20 years who has left our youth team system from lack of opportunity who has gone on and proved the clubs assessment wrong.

It's an argument done ad infitum on this forum, and it's so pointless.

therhinospeaks said:
I can think of plenty who should of had more opportunity to thrive at Spurs. Don't forget good players instantly become better players when they're alongside higher calibre team mates. I'll throw a couple of quick names out there though...Charlie Daniels and Adam Smith.

You're a brave man. It is an argument that can never be 'won' as one side assume that anyone 'good enough' will always be given a chance, no matter what or believe that the cream will always rise to the top, without taking into account that there are multiple factors at play. For balance though, we, me, you and others who think like us, aren't scouts or managers so essentially know less, than those making decisions, which is a fair enough stance to take, if fans don't know much about the academy players. Do I believe the manager or fans. The issue is that we have managers they have conflicting views even with our own academy players and our own manager demonstrating conflict in his selections and opinion on our academy players so who really knows what's going on.

IGSpur · Jun 21, 2019

Westmorlandspur said:
If they think they are going to be top players they probably will.Clubs keep giving Ravel Morrison a chance, only due to his talent but he just keeps letting people down.
Gerrard was saying all he thought about as a youth player was being a first teamer. It was his sole reason for living. There won’t be lots of lads with that attitude.
I remember a story from Ray Wilkins some years ago. He was with the Chelsea youth team for training just after champ lge final when Barca beat Man U first time. He asked who had watched the final , only to find that hardly any of them had watched what was one of the best sides ever. This is the Chelsea youth team who dominate our youth football.
Lampardhas been quoted as saying a lot of youth players think they have made it before they have done anything .Beardsley said the same when he was at Newcastle.
Bound to turn young lads heads when they are getting decent money, people praising them, they have an agent. Not surprising a lot of them go to pot.

I can equally point to quotes from Scott Parker, Patrick Vieira and other ex pros or top people in the game, who say that they have worked alongside English academy players and current first teamers in England and abroad who say that the academy players aren't getting chances despite being better than first teamers, or saying they would be playing first team in other leagues but are wasted here. The players you cite came through in an era with less money and a lot more English players in the league, hardly a fair comparison, but either way we all have our 'camp' and choose to believe who we want to believe.

IGSpur · Jun 21, 2019

Blake Griffin said:

Haven't had a an outfield player join from abroad for a while. Makes sense if Michael Craig is going to move back into defence. Only one proper CM for next season, though we still have White, Cooper and Pedder, though the latter two would probably still be considered more AMs

Hercules · Jun 21, 2019

IG my friend, our academy according to insiders at the club, and outside, we are not producing the quality of very late. I mean the last couple years 16-18 year olds. And the ones that’s there many are debating if they are good enough, without naming names. Hence we bought in Troy, and few others. There is more, but sure you get the drift.

I do not follow like you do, but hear the conversations.

ronspurs · Jun 21, 2019

Yuri Berchiche did ok after leaving spurs. Has had a few seasons of first team football in La Liga and a spell at PSG. Much better than was anticipated I think when they let him move on

beats1 · Jun 21, 2019

Hercules said:
IG my friend, our academy according to insiders at the club, and outside, we are not producing the quality of very late. I mean the last couple years 16-18 year olds. And the ones that’s there many are debating if they are good enough, without naming names. Hence we bought in Troy, and few others. There is more, but sure you get the drift.

I do not follow like you do, but hear the conversations.

The intakes have been good but the players have just not progressed at all after becoming scholars.

That said a lot of people here aren't debating if scholars should be given chances if anything they are debating if the players prior to that from 5 years ago even have got a fair chance especially considering how highly the club rated these players

therhinospeaks · Jun 21, 2019

Hercules said:
IG my friend, our academy according to insiders at the club, and outside, we are not producing the quality of very late. I mean the last couple years 16-18 year olds. And the ones that’s there many are debating if they are good enough, without naming names. Hence we bought in Troy, and few others. There is more, but sure you get the drift.

I do not follow like you do, but hear the conversations.

Good to hear the inside track.

Westmorlandspur · Jun 21, 2019

The likes of Livermore, Caulker, Carroll, poss Townsend who all made a number of appearances in our first team, would not get near it now. The standard is way above what it was. Consequently youth players will have to be approaching international class to get in. It’s just a fact that very few will do it.
Skipp has played a few times but more because of injuries than forcing himself in.
Reference to Adam Smith...6 years back I saw him at Carlisle in the league cup given a chasing by a 4th div winger Matty Robson. If we had held onto him he would never be where he is now. Often it’s best to go and play regularly lower down.

beats1 · Jun 21, 2019

Westmorlandspur said:
The likes of Livermore, Caulker, Carroll, poss Townsend who all made a number of appearances in our first team, would not get near it now. The standard is way above what it was. Consequently youth players will have to be approaching international class to get in. It’s just a fact that very few will do it.
Skipp has played a few times but more because of injuries than forcing himself in.
Reference to Adam Smith...6 years back I saw him at Carlisle in the league cup given a chasing by a 4th div winger Matty Robson. If we had held onto him he would never be where he is now. Often it’s best to go and play regularly lower down.

Has it?

Im not being facetious, I just dont think that is true. The standard of the first 11 has gone up and even thats debatably to a certain extent(I would make a case, this is the first time the first team has been coached properly as some of the players we had before were great players).

However the standard of the squad is what it used to be, would Kane get near the squad?

IGSpur · Jun 21, 2019

Hercules said:
IG my friend, our academy according to insiders at the club, and outside, we are not producing the quality of very late. I mean the last couple years 16-18 year olds. And the ones that’s there many are debating if they are good enough, without naming names. Hence we bought in Troy, and few others. There is more, but sure you get the drift.

I do not follow like you do, but hear the conversations.

In late I assume you mean the last couple of first year intakes. I have mentioned before I don't think the new first years are great though as usual there are some standout talents particularly John and Craig, but even players like Robson and Muir are there. It's kind of like the Edwards year group. In saying that though I also didn't think last years intake without Madueke would be great however they complemented the 2nd years (good group) excellently, and we played some of the best football I've seen. Makes sense why we brought in Parrott.

As @beats1 said our previous intakes have been better. What was great about last year though is we had about 3/4 top CMs but in terms of actual quality I still don't think any were better than Onomah, who was all supported by a strong group of players all over the pitch but they all have ability and potential to be first teamers if they develop. They are like Winks level, and I think Michael Craig is of that level too or may prove to be so there's definitely some talent there next year. But in terms of depth we may be struggling especially when you consider the likes of White, Binks and Bennett will probably play up. Hopefully they surprise me though. I'm still optimistc about the year under them.

ralphs bald spot · Jun 21, 2019

Westmorlandspur said:
The likes of Livermore, Caulker, Carroll, poss Townsend who all made a number of appearances in our first team, would not get near it now. The standard is way above what it was. Consequently youth players will have to be approaching international class to get in. It’s just a fact that very few will do it.
Skipp has played a few times but more because of injuries than forcing himself in.
Reference to Adam Smith...6 years back I saw him at Carlisle in the league cup given a chasing by a 4th div winger Matty Robson. If we had held onto him he would never be where he is now. Often it’s best to go and play regularly lower down.

Though I kind of agree it's perhaps ironic that of the 4 players mentioned above 3 of them are full England internationals - I was surprised to see that someone mentioned Charlie Daniels as an example - Charlie was a pretty poor winger with us but has done really well for himself I am not sure that he would have ever have made an impact at Tottenham - I thought Smithy was a little unlucky not to get a bigger chance at the time

Yiddo100 · Jun 21, 2019

How come Chelsea have so much youth products coming through, do they spend £££ to get them in, or they actually made in their academy

coys200 · Jun 21, 2019

Spoke to a Spanish youth watcher about yago like getting blood out of a stone lol. But basically said he was one of Celta cadet best players. Celta also topped the age group league and scored 147 goals. So the fact we’ve taken one of the best players from the best age group team in Spain is encouraging.

IGSpur · Jun 21, 2019

Yiddo100 said:
How come Chelsea have so much youth products coming through, do they spend £££ to get them in, or they actually made in their academy

Made in their academy. Obviously it depends on the year group but most of their players have been at the club from under the age of 12. I'm sure money plays a factor. So the best children will join them, I'm speculating but I'm sure clubs will try to seduce parents with offers but otherwise it's just a top academy with great coaching.

vintagespurs · Jun 21, 2019

There will be the same differential in salaries between their youth players and ours as there is between our 1st team players and theirs, which must be persuasive if other things are equal.

kmk · Jun 21, 2019

Chelsea also sign youngsters from other clubs academies like Izzy Brown (WBA) and Ethan Ampadu (Exeter).

They have also tapped up players from abroad in dodgy circumstances like Gael Kakuta.

coys200 · Jun 21, 2019

The Chelsea youth loan system was/is a massive money spinner. When the law changes 20/21 will be a big hole in their budget.

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