The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

[IGSpur]

You can’t always base everything on stats. I’d also say Solanke and Abraham had a big physical advantage which has obviously evened out. You also have to consider the teams they were playing in our U23 have been poor and almost got relegated and England U17 were far more dominant than Ireland. When Parrott played in the U18s who were dominant he scored a load which you’ve conveniently left out.That’s why I said I believe Parrott will be an all round better footballer than those 2. Would you seriously swap Parrott for any of the 3 mentioned above, I certainly wouldn’t.

I couldn't even remember the specifc stats I was just pointing out what I remembred by as per @spurs9 has come with more factual information. While Abrahma and Solanke may be big, Parrott is hardly small. He is easily one of the most physically imposing players in our u18s and even upto our u23s. He is a bit of a tank for his age, and Solanke and Abraham would have been the year below Parrott. So essentially were still schoolboys like Hudson-Odoi when they first appeared regularly for Chelsea u18s while Parrott was a first year. Abraham was also playing second fiddle to Solanke and actually came through and imo overtook Solanke once he was a 2nd year so at that point was just starting to fire and still putting up better numbers. Armstrong who you didn't mention was a tiny but stocky kid playing for Newcastle so had the same weaknesses when compared to Parrott as you are raising when comparing to the two Chelsea kids. And my point is, at the age of 17/18 I probably would have taken Abraham over Parrott and probably would still now but that's cos I really liked Abraham, but as I've said many times I really rate Parrott highly and am more than pleased that we've picked him up and he's in our academy. He's a top talent.

Stats don’t really mean that much at youth level. Tammy Abraham did well in youth football but never looked to me like a future Chelsea striker. Done well at Villa but he won’t be a Chelsea striker.
At times you talk as if every half decent youth player should make it , if given a chance. The fact is the vast majority won’t. Most times it’s because they are just not good enough or because they have a bad attitude.
Vary was let go at Sheffield Utd as a youth player and admitted he was a pratt. Not many come back like he has.
I used to work with a lad who could have been a pro. He said he just got fed up of being on a bus for a couple of hours every other week.
All the players who sign at 16 will all have been the best players in their school teams. It will have been easy for them.suddenly they are surrounded by players just as good or better. Then having been centre forward all their lives, the coach puts them at full back and it’s another world.
Survival of the fittest it certainly is.

He never looked like a Chelsea striker because he was at Chelsea, Much the same way Dasilva doesn't look a Chelsea LB, or Mount a Chelsea AM, or until Bayern come calling CHO a Chelsea winger or after 5 years of drifting RLC wasn't looking like a Chelsea CM. Not making it at Chelsea isn't a sign of a lack of ability. I have always though that Abraham would be England second best striker but he never got that chance at Chelsea, but hey at least they invested that time and money wisely in Morata, not like Abraham couldn't have done what he did.

I assume you're talking to @spurs9 but this whole conversation started because coys200 said that Parrott was the best striker in the British Isles, and gave my opinion that I thought others were better backed up by stats by Spurs9. I even said I doubt that Parrott will make it here, in fact, I've mentioned loads of times repeatedly I doubt any players will make it here, so I don't know know where that frustrating has come from. You're the one betting your house on Parrott making it here, despite I assume fleeting viewings of him. But I do believe that most youth players would make it were they given a chance not because they are half decent but because they are very talented but I've long stopped believing that will happen.

No one here is stupid and realise that talent means nothing without hardwork, it just depends on whether you believe that all these talented kids who have sacrificed so much of their life would decide to suddenly start downing tools at 18/19 when the prize is within reach. You seem to believe they do. I don't. There will be pratts but I imagine the clubs with all their knowledgeable coaches won't keep offering them contracts if they were.

 

[IGSpur]

Yep but he's at Arsenal. Think he might be Jacques son.

I was aware he had a kid but didn't know he was old enough to be at an academy. The family just churn them out

 

[spurs9]

You can’t always base everything on stats. I’d also say Solanke and Abraham had a big physical advantage which has obviously evened out. You also have to consider the teams they were playing in our U23 have been poor and almost got relegated and England U17 were far more dominant than Ireland. When Parrott played in the U18s who were dominant he scored a load which you’ve conveniently left out.That’s why I said I believe Parrott will be an all round better footballer than those 2. Would you seriously swap Parrott for any of the 3 mentioned above, I certainly wouldn’t.

Just using stats to back up it up not in isolation. The 3 players I posted stats for, I chose as they were very highly rated at 17 (more so than Parrott).

I didn't conveniently leave out the U18 stats, I did so as I couldn't get the stats for the other 3 players as they weren't as readily available/recorded back then, plus in Solanke's case, he had already moved up to U23s, so didn't play much (if at all) U18s.

I would legit swap Parrott for Abraham, but I would rather have both. If all 4 were 17 and I had to choose 1, Parrott would be bottom of the list in all honesty, but it would be close.

If Parrott is to reach his potential, we need to do a better job in his development than Chelsea did with Solanke, Abraham I still believe will end up better than Rashford, not sure why people would be writing him off, he is still only 21 and has scored over 20 goals in 2 separate seasons in the championship, if Parrott manages that by the same age, we are doing well.

 

[spurs9]

Stats don’t really mean that much at youth level. Tammy Abraham did well in youth football but never looked to me like a future Chelsea striker. Done well at Villa but he won’t be a Chelsea striker.
At times you talk as if every half decent youth player should make it , if given a chance. The fact is the vast majority won’t. Most times it’s because they are just not good enough or because they have a bad attitude.
Vary was let go at Sheffield Utd as a youth player and admitted he was a pratt. Not many come back like he has.
I used to work with a lad who could have been a pro. He said he just got fed up of being on a bus for a couple of hours every other week.
All the players who sign at 16 will all have been the best players in their school teams. It will have been easy for them.suddenly they are surrounded by players just as good or better. Then having been centre forward all their lives, the coach puts them at full back and it’s another world.
Survival of the fittest it certainly is.

For the part in bold, not sure what you are on about, maybe you should re-read the post I replied to and my reply, I was pointing out that players that "haven't made it" (or at least perceived not to) were actually better players at the same age.

Not sure why so many are writing off Abraham, I think as long as he leaves Chelsea (and gets decent loans in the mean time) , he still could become a top striker and a player that Chelsea are eventually interested in or look poor for not developing like de Bruyne and Salah (both 22 when they left Chelsea).

 

[spurs9]

Yep but he's at Arsenal. Think he might be Jacques son.

What's the bet he's the one that will finally make it and turn into a top player.

 

[blackburn]

I like this thread, the info on our youngsters fascinates me but I do think several are harsh with their criticism of Poch.

Which club would be the ideal model for us to copy - Southampton springs to mind. But competition for places there isn't as intense so youngsters will always get more opportunities, striking a balance is very difficult.

 

[coys200]

In the stats argument I actually think a teams standing is much more significant than size of player. The Chelsea boys were playing in dominant Chelsea and England teams. Compared to Parrott who has played in a nearly relegated U23 team and a not great Ireland team. The one team he has played in that were very good our U18s he has scored and assisted very well.

 

[wrd]

I like this thread, the info on our youngsters fascinates me but I do think several are harsh with their criticism of Poch.

Which club would be the ideal model for us to copy - Southampton springs to mind. But competition for places there isn't as intense so youngsters will always get more opportunities, striking a balance is very difficult.

I can't name one single player in the last 20 years who has left our youth team system from lack of opportunity who has gone on and proved the clubs assessment wrong.

 

[therhinospeaks]

What's the bet he's the one that will finally make it and turn into a top player.

hahahhahahahha it's a given.

 

[spurs9]

In the stats argument I actually think a teams standing is much more significant than size of player. The Chelsea boys were playing in dominant Chelsea and England teams. Compared to Parrott who has played in a nearly relegated U23 team and a not great Ireland team. The one team he has played in that were very good our U18s he has scored and assisted very well.

Chelsea U23s weren't a dominant team though, they were good but not amazing, they finished 3rd in the league. Newcastle finished 6th in league that season, whilst we finished 9th this season.

 

[blackburn]

I can't name one single player in the last 20 years who has left our youth team system from lack of opportunity who has gone on and proved the clubs assessment wrong.

I've made this point before on here, the only one I can think of is Crouch

 

[therhinospeaks]

I can't name one single player in the last 20 years who has left our youth team system from lack of opportunity who has gone on and proved the clubs assessment wrong.

I've made this point before on here, the only one I can think of is Crouch

I can think of plenty who should of had more opportunity to thrive at Spurs. Don't forget good players instantly become better players when they're alongside higher calibre team mates. I'll throw a couple of quick names out there though...Charlie Daniels and Adam Smith.

 

[blackburn]

I can think of plenty who should of had more opportunity to thrive at Spurs. Don't forget good players instantly become better players when they're alongside higher calibre team mates. I'll throw a couple of quick names out there though...Charlie Daniels and Adam Smith.

But nothing they achieved in their careers suggests they would have improved Spurs

 

[therhinospeaks]

But nothing they achieved in their careers suggests they would have improved Spurs

Both have played a lot of premier league football now. I can't honestly say Davies or Aurier are better footballers and therefore it would of saved us a wedge.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

I couldn't even remember the specifc stats I was just pointing out what I remembred by as per @spurs9 has come with more factual information. While Abrahma and Solanke may be big, Parrott is hardly small. He is easily one of the most physically imposing players in our u18s and even upto our u23s. He is a bit of a tank for his age, and Solanke and Abraham would have been the year below Parrott. So essentially were still schoolboys like Hudson-Odoi when they first appeared regularly for Chelsea u18s while Parrott was a first year. Abraham was also playing second fiddle to Solanke and actually came through and imo overtook Solanke once he was a 2nd year so at that point was just starting to fire and still putting up better numbers. Armstrong who you didn't mention was a tiny but stocky kid playing for Newcastle so had the same weaknesses when compared to Parrott as you are raising when comparing to the two Chelsea kids. And my point is, at the age of 17/18 I probably would have taken Abraham over Parrott and probably would still now but that's cos I really liked Abraham, but as I've said many times I really rate Parrott highly and am more than pleased that we've picked him up and he's in our academy. He's a top talent.




He never looked like a Chelsea striker because he was at Chelsea, Much the same way Dasilva doesn't look a Chelsea LB, or Mount a Chelsea AM, or until Bayern come calling CHO a Chelsea winger or after 5 years of drifting RLC wasn't looking like a Chelsea CM. Not making it at Chelsea isn't a sign of a lack of ability. I have always though that Abraham would be England second best striker but he never got that chance at Chelsea, but hey at least they invested that time and money wisely in Morata, not like Abraham couldn't have done what he did.

I assume you're talking to @spurs9 but this whole conversation started because coys200 said that Parrott was the best striker in the British Isles, and gave my opinion that I thought others were better backed up by stats by Spurs9. I even said I doubt that Parrott will make it here, in fact, I've mentioned loads of times repeatedly I doubt any players will make it here, so I don't know know where that frustrating has come from. You're the one betting your house on Parrott making it here, despite I assume fleeting viewings of him. But I do believe that most youth players would make it were they given a chance not because they are half decent but because they are very talented but I've long stopped believing that will happen.

No one here is stupid and realise that talent means nothing without hardwork, it just depends on whether you believe that all these talented kids who have sacrificed so much of their life would decide to suddenly start downing tools at 18/19 when the prize is within reach. You seem to believe they do. I don't. There will be pratts but I imagine the clubs with all their knowledgeable coaches won't keep offering them contracts if they were.

If they think they are going to be top players they probably will.Clubs keep giving Ravel Morrison a chance, only due to his talent but he just keeps letting people down.
Gerrard was saying all he thought about as a youth player was being a first teamer. It was his sole reason for living. There won’t be lots of lads with that attitude.
I remember a story from Ray Wilkins some years ago. He was with the Chelsea youth team for training just after champ lge final when Barca beat Man U first time. He asked who had watched the final , only to find that hardly any of them had watched what was one of the best sides ever. This is the Chelsea youth team who dominate our youth football.
Lampardhas been quoted as saying a lot of youth players think they have made it before they have done anything .Beardsley said the same when he was at Newcastle.
Bound to turn young lads heads when they are getting decent money, people praising them, they have an agent. Not surprising a lot of them go to pot.

 

[blackburn]

Both have played a lot of premier league football now. I can't honestly say Davies or Aurier are better footballers and therefore it would of saved us a wedge.

In which case you're a far better judge than every scout, agent and manager in the business.

 

[therhinospeaks]

In which case you're a far better judge than every scout, agent and manager in the business.

I'd agree with most but not every.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I can't name one single player in the last 20 years who has left our youth team system from lack of opportunity who has gone on and proved the clubs assessment wrong.

with this though the threshold is always unrealistically high so unless they turn into a kane then they're just going to get labelled as being no great loss. veljkovic is doing well in germany for example, sold for 300k and is now probably worth 50x that and whilst he's not better than say jan or toby, he could still have been a worthwhile squad member had he been integrated properly. regardless of that though the past doesn't determine the future so just because we haven't regretted letting previous players leave it doesn't mean it will be the same for the next one.

what i find funny though is people twisting this back around to youth watchers apparently whinging that youth players aren't getting a chance, yet over the past few pages those same youth watchers are saying that marsh isn't of the required level so obviously it's not just a sweeping bias towards the academy otherwise they'd surely be saying the opposite?

 

[wrd]

with this though the threshold is always unrealistically high so unless they turn into a kane then they're just going to get labelled as being no great loss. veljkovic is doing well in germany for example, sold for 300k and is now probably worth 50x that and whilst he's not better than say jan or toby, he could still have been a worthwhile squad member had he been integrated properly. regardless of that though the past doesn't determine the future so just because we haven't regretted letting previous players leave it doesn't mean it will be the same for the next one.

what i find funny though is people twisting this back around to youth watchers apparently whinging that youth players aren't getting a chance, yet over the past few pages those same youth watchers are saying that marsh isn't of the required level so obviously it's not just a sweeping bias towards the academy otherwise they'd surely be saying the opposite?

Thats fair but I think theres a difference between saying Poch is judged harshly by some people and suggesting that every youth watcher having a sweeping bias towards every single youth player.

As you say it may change in the future but so far the club has pretty much got it right if the 3 names mentioned are the examples, none of them would get near our 25 and at best maybe we could have made a few million out of them, thats not a bad record.

 

[Blake Griffin]