New Stadium Details And Discussions

Hoopspur · Jan 13, 2016

I had a discussion earlier suggesting a temporary stand(s) could certainly accommodate 5k people. I even found one of the suppliers that do this sort of thing. I'm sure it will all come down to economics and what the club can hope to achieve. If they can put up pretty big temporary stands for the Open golf championship for example then it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Not going to say it will happen but can understand why it's being discussed. Current North Stand holds 10k and we have 23.5k ST holders.

http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com/.../gl-events-slick...

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whitesocks · Jan 14, 2016

Hoopspur said:
I had a discussion earlier suggesting a temporary stand(s) could certainly accommodate 5k people. I even found one of the suppliers that do this sort of thing. I'm sure it will all come down to economics and what the club can hope to achieve. If they can put up pretty big temporary stands for the Open golf championship for example then it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Not going to say it will happen but can understand why it's being discussed. Current North Stand holds 10k and we have 23.5k ST holders.

http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com/.../gl-events-slick...

SportsVenue Technology B2B Portal for Complete Business Solutions
SPORTSVENUE-TECHNOLOGY.COM

They had a temporary stand at stamford bridge for a couple of seasons when they knocked the shed end down as I remember.

LarryCatt · Jan 14, 2016

whitesocks said:
They had a temporary stand at stamford bridge for a couple of seasons when they knocked the shed end down as I remember.

The two "end" stands at Fulham are temporary structures but with proper foundations

Grey Fox · Jan 14, 2016

I don't want to piss on people's cornflakes, but I have heard that Mace, who are running Bracknell Town centre regeneration, are allegedly 2 months behind schedule on that project after only 8 months in.

brasil_spur · Jan 14, 2016

Grey Fox said:
I don't want to piss on people's cornflakes, but I have heard that Mace, who are running Bracknell Town centre regeneration, are allegedly 2 months behind schedule on that project after only 8 months in.

Sounds about standard though doesn't it? I would imagine most major building projects run 3 months behind for every 12 months of anticipated contract length - i'm sure davidmatzdorf can provide more info around this.

Grey Fox · Jan 14, 2016

brasil_spur said:
Sounds about standard though doesn't it? I would imagine most major building projects run 3 months behind for every 12 months of anticipated contract length - i'm sure davidmatzdorf can provide more info around this.

Would make a huge difference to a football club though and a project like ours ,which has some complicated elements, not least sorting fixture lists if we have delays and any ground share negotiations

CoopsieDeadpool · Jan 14, 2016

Grey Fox said:
I don't want to piss on people's cornflakes, but I have heard that Mace, who are running Bracknell Town centre regeneration, are allegedly 2 months behind schedule on that project after only 8 months in.

Thank you GF (y)

..

Question, not assuming that you know the answer, but is it likely that we'd have signed some sort of binding contract with Mace?

I'm obviously thinking from the point of view that the actual construction (of the stadium) hasn't yet begun, and I'm assuming this is what they'll be overlooking/delegating?

So, if they are looking somewhat dodgy on the project you mention in your post, and are only 8 months in, would THFC be able to look into using someone else for whatever it is that Mace are supposed to be doing?

Grey Fox · Jan 14, 2016

coopsieyid said:
Thank you GF ..

Question, not assuming that you know the answer, but is it likely that we'd have signed some sort of binding contract with Mace?

I'm obviously thinking from the point of view that the actual construction (of the stadium) hasn't yet begun, and I'm assuming this is what they'll be overlooking/delegating?

So, if they are looking somewhat dodgy on the project you mention in your post, and are only 8 months in, would THFC be able to look into using someone else for whatever it is that Mace are supposed to be doing?

Haven't a clue mate

thfc1973 · Jan 14, 2016

I think there was a post a while ago outlining all the competitors for the ground and I had decided back then that Mace appeared to be the worst in terms of being able to project manage well. The only reason they were included as candidates appeared to be because of cost. And that's why they won it I think, because they were the cheapest. I think Levy is willing to let things slip maybe because the nature of the job and how complicated it is and what with all the hurdles, so maybe he's decided whats a few months slippage when the project is going on for years. I think as long as they get the main core stadium built by the time we move in he wont care too much that the NDP itself is overrunning. That being said, it is imperative from a business aspect that one gets the project completed on time so as to maximize the profits from the business, and if its not completed you're losing money, regardless.

Its a tough one but I think DL has gone with cost savings on this and we may see the negative drawbacks to that decision in years to come.

davidmatzdorf · Jan 14, 2016

coopsieyid said:
Question, not assuming that you know the answer, but is it likely that we'd have signed some sort of binding contract with Mace?

The announcement from THFC said that Mace have ben appointed as construction managers. That would indicate that their appointment has been finalised. If I were Mace, I wouldn't be doing any meaningful work on the project until I had been contractually appointed.

There are all kinds of reasons why contracts can incur delays near the beginning of the programme. Two obvious candidates are (a) unforeseen ground conditions that weren't picked up by the site investigations and their associated excavations and tests and (b) the discovery of archaeological artifacts. In neither of those cases does the fault lie with the construction manager or contractor. A third common reason is that the contractor is overstretched and is unable to divert labour resources to the new job, either because new staff are difficult to secure (that is true right now across the building industry) or because another job is running late and is monopolising the staff that would otherwise be starting work on the new job.

There are also reasons why contracts can incur delays late in the programme and, in my experience, these are almost always due to the poor organisation and resourcing, incompetence or impending insolvency of the contractor.

CoopsieDeadpool · Jan 14, 2016

davidmatzdorf said:
The announcement from THFC said that Mace have ben appointed as construction managers. That would indicate that their appointment has been finalised. If I were Mace, I wouldn't be doing any meaningful work on the project until I had been contractually appointed.

There are all kinds of reasons why contracts can incur delays near the beginning of the programme. Two obvious candidates are (a) unforeseen ground conditions that weren't picked up by the site investigations and their associated excavations and tests and (b) the discovery of archaeological artifacts. In neither of those cases does the fault lie with the construction manager or contractor. A third common reason is that the contractor is overstretched and is unable to divert labour resources to the new job, either because new staff are difficult to secure (that is true right now across the building industry) or because another job is running late and is monopolising the staff that would otherwise be starting work on the new job.

There are also reasons why contracts can incur delays late in the programme and, in my experience, these are almost always due to the poor organisation and resourcing, incompetence or impending insolvency of the contractor.

As ever, thank you, David. Over the years on this particular thread, I'd be at a total loss when it comes to most of the info we get, if it wasn't for you and one or two others.

It really is appreciated (y)

.. You must have the patience of a saint? I couldn't count the amount if times I've seen some info on here, and then seen multiple responses of "@davidmatzdorf what does this mean?" .. Fair play to you!!

Trees · Jan 14, 2016

brasil_spur said:
Sounds about standard though doesn't it? I would imagine most major building projects run 3 months behind for every 12 months of anticipated contract length - i'm sure davidmatzdorf can provide more info around this.

I do extensive works as a subbie in the construction sector. I have two jobs where the main contractor is over 12 months behind schedule. To quote David Matzdorf, it is nearly always down to poor organisation and resourcing. There is a huge struggle behind the scenes in the construction sector to get good subbies working purposefully. I would be amazed at the timescales being suggested by various for the stadium.

spursfan77 · Jan 14, 2016

Grey Fox said:
I don't want to piss on people's cornflakes, but I have heard that Mace, who are running Bracknell Town centre regeneration, are allegedly 2 months behind schedule on that project after only 8 months in.

I used to be involved in the management of the Princess Square shopping centre there about 10 years ago. I can see why they would be behind, it's quite a massive regeneration there (they were talking about it a decade ago) and there are a lot of interested parties that would be wanting to get involved. I can't see it being plain sailing for them.

davidmatzdorf · Jan 15, 2016

Another reason why contracts habitually run late is that the contractors are pressurised into setting unrealistically short programmes by demands from senior management, because profit is inversely related to time spent on site and because a shorter programme can lead to a more competitive tender.

The same is true of cost consultants, who are pressurised by their developer clients, who prefer to be unrealistically optimistic about how much they can offer for a site by being unrealistically optimistic about how much it will cost to build on it.

These contracts aren't really running "late" at all - only because the original target was never achievable.

Antilokhos · Jan 15, 2016

It's typical in large projects like this (I've worked on nuclear plants and dams) that contractors have large bonuses for coming in on time and on budget. And penalties if they don't. Given how well Levy negotiates a relatively small transfer fee, I would imagine the club will be well protected/compensated if there are overruns due to poor management.

sideways · Jan 15, 2016

davidmatzdorf said:
The announcement from THFC said that Mace have ben appointed as construction managers. That would indicate that their appointment has been finalised. If I were Mace, I wouldn't be doing any meaningful work on the project until I had been contractually appointed.

A guy on COYS posted last week that a family member had been headhunted by Mace as a PM for our job, and was currently shacked up in Lilywhite House in close proximity to the Glorious Leader.

Hoops · Jan 15, 2016

Adam456 · Jan 15, 2016

Anybody heard anything about Boris' final planning decision. Last I heard, on here I think, was it was expected mid-Jan (i.e. one month after the Haringey approval).

That would make it any day now and we know that he seemed to be all for it...

CoopsieDeadpool · Jan 15, 2016

Adam456 said:
Anybody heard anything about Boris' final planning decision. Last I heard, on here I think, was it was expected mid-Jan (i.e. one month after the Haringey approval).

That would make it any day now and we know that he seemed to be all for it...

Nope. You're welcome (y)

..

Seriously, though, we surely aren't being ridiculous if we take it for granted that Boris is just going to sign it off & give it the OK? As you say, he was all for it. Heck, I think I can even remember reading (possibly on here?) that he felt it's practically a necessity, and is the catalyst for the regeneration of the entire area.

I also think I remember reading an article about the governments £1billion injection for the regeneration of Tottenham, which included the £400million THFC stadium construction. I'll see if I can track that article down (y)

CoopsieDeadpool · Jan 15, 2016

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/news/lea...eader-delighted-£500million-tottenham-backing

Leader 'delighted' with £500million Tottenham backing

Wednesday 26 June 2013

Haringey Council’s plans for the major regeneration of Tottenham received a major boost today after the government agreed a £500million borrowing guarantee for the programme.

The deal means the council, Greater London Authority and private sector can now press ahead with financial security for its plans to transform the area, which include thousands of new homes and jobs as well as better transport links, leisure facilities and business workspace.

Today’s announcement also included an agreement that Transport for London will take over management of the West Anglia train routes through Tottenham, as well as the £90million electrification of the London Overground line through South Tottenham Station.

Haringey Council Leader Claire Kober said:

"I am delighted that Haringey Council’s ambitious regeneration plans for Tottenham have now been given secure financial backing by the government.

"Today’s £500million guarantee means we can now get on with the task of bringing up to 10,000 new high-quality homes and more than 5,000 new jobs to Tottenham with confidence, giving better opportunities to local people.

"Better transport links are key to securing Tottenham’s future, and bringing our rail networks under the control of Transport for London will help secure improvements for our residents as well as the increasing number of people who want to make the area their home.

"We're well on our way to bringing change to this community, but today's announcement means we can step up and truly transform Tottenham."

With nearly £1billion of investment already committed, regeneration plans are gathering pace and work on Tottenham Hotspur's 56,000-seater stadium-led development has already started, with one of the capital’s largest supermarkets set to open next year.

For more information on Tottenham’s regeneration and how you can get involved, see our Tottenham - Looking to the Future pages

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