When will you / did you think enough is enough

[Bowlesinho]

Those of you that recognise my name will know I post very sporadically on here but I lurk and read almost everything in these forums.

I'm interested to see peoples thoughts on the following question:

At what point have you / will you lose faith in Ramos as manager?

I don't want this to generate into a slagging match but those who are against Ramos, when did you think enough is enough, was it the Hull game? Stoke game? etc and those of you who support Ramos, at what point will you change your mind, if we lose against Bolton? If we lose against the Arse?

My own personal thoughts are that I still support Ramos, however deep down i feel that if we lose against Bolton on Sunday my views may well change.

 

[roosh]

For me it was the stoke game that was the straw that broke the camels back.
They are the second worst team in the league at the moment behind oursleves, which means that all the teams we play form here on are better than them (on current form). We never once looked like we were going to beat them, and we are getting worse, and our squad is becoming depleted - so it think its reasonable to assume that we won't win any of our next 4 games at least. This for me will be very close to being too far gone

 

[Dougal]

I'm still with Ramos but last night, when Gomes stumbled and we went 1 down, I cracked and the season got to me.

Still, I don't think anyone noticed today

 

[PT]

The Bolton game's result will decide for me.

I just hope that the crowd gets right behind the team as it did vs Seville last season and roars them on. No booing and no walking out after 70 minutes if we're losing.

If we lose, then we are deep, deep in shyte and something will have to change.

 

[Bowlesinho]

So then Dougal is it fair to say a loss against Bolton would be the straw that broke the camel's back?

 

[Leachie]

When I saw the team and performance against Villa - that was the first time I felt genuine doubts.

Now I have lost all belief in Ramos and every additional match he is in charge feels like a wasted match that someone else could have used to get us out of the shit.

If you don't feel that now, trust me it is not a nice feeling.

 

[Flatters]

I don't think I'll lose faith in him whatever happens.

 

[Mullers]

I was losing faith in him last season when he couldn't motivate the players after the carling cup win. I'd like him to succeed and turn it around but I don't think that will happen. Last night I saw a side totally devoid of confidence, certain players not bothering to chase back when they lose the ball, I mean that is basic stuff. It seems that the whole team is without leadership and direction.

 

[Kendall]

During the Stoke game when he just stood there, expressionless, motionless as the team just wilted in front of him. His counterpart, however, jumping up and down, urging his team on, barking instructions.

It was a disgrace.

 

[Coyboy]

I have had a hunch that Ramos isn't the right man since the Wigan game, people can check if they can be arsed (I can't). I so want to be proven wrong. I am waiting for it but each game, I just want Ramos to go even more.

 

[Captain Spur]

Now, enough is enough. The end to last season was shocking, didn't think it could get worse than that, but this season has been a complete shambles.

I don't like changing managers all the time and people should be given a little time, if we were half way up the league with a few wins under our belts I would advocate sticking with Ramos and seeing what he can do. The simply fact is I can't see where our next win is going to come from. So with that in mind I don't think we can afford to hang around much longer, he should go now. I was going to say wait till after the Bolton, Arse and Liverpool games but I fear that would be too late.

Don't know who we could expect to bring in as a replacement though. El Tel springs to mind, but can't see Spurs employing him again (under a different regime now I know), or possibly Big Sam. Neither of them are ideal but I think that is the best we could expect in the current situation. There is no way someone like Bilic or Keane would dump on their teams at this stage of the competition/season.

 

[Dougal]

So then Dougal is it fair to say a loss against Bolton would be the straw that broke the camel's back?

Probably not, I want Comolli out first.

 

[mil1lion]

I'd give him until mid november but enough is enough if we get thrashed by Arsenal i think. Anything less than a respectable scoreline there and i'll have to say thats enough. If he cant get us fired up for that game, then there is a serious problem with Ramos, not just the players.

 

[JollyHappy]

I'd like to know why he played King last night when we have the Bolton game coming up. If he is saving him for the Arse game then I know where we are more likely to take the points.

I'd also like to know why he refuses to consider Stalteri for the squad, especially when he was playing Zok there as an emergency right back.

I'd also like to know why he took Lennon off in the Hull game.

I'd also like to know why he says he is a 4-4-2 man and persists in playing 4-5-1.

Also why sign a right sided midfielder (Bentley) then play him on the left wing?

If he has answers for those then I'd give him some benefit of the doubt. None of those are anyone but his choice.

In answer to the actual question, I came away from the Sunderland home game saying that we had no chance of finishing above 10th with the team and squad we had.

The Stoke and Udinesse games are one offs in that he can't be blamed for individual errors and sendings off.

 

[defoe18]

He must play 4-4-2 against Bolton

If we lose that game, he's gotta go

 

[Davo99]

That second goal last night, the way they just finished us off with ease and we just got absolutely undone...it was poor.

When that goal went in, I just thought that's it, we're not good enough...in fact we're shít, let's get rid of this Spanish knobhead asap!

 

[hellava_tough]

I think it was the Stoke game (again, if members want to trawl through my posts, be my guest :grin: ).

If we can't beat Stoke, nay, compete against Stoke, then which teams in the Premier League ARE we going to compete against?

It would be one thing if we were mid-table, showing the odd flash of inspiration. I'd say give Ramos a couple more seasons; let's see what he can do.

But the tail-end of last season was poor, and this season Ramos hasn't given us one reason why he shouldn't be sacked.

If I turned up to my 9 til 5 everyday, and put in the same level of performance, I'd have been fired weeks ago.

Why is it any different with Ramos?

 

[slewis1972]

me - like Davo99 said. As soon as the second goal went in and I looked at where the players were, they had given up, along with me with Ramos.

 

[west indie]

with a record of 5 wins from 40 games in 2008 speaks huge volumes with around 25 of those he had the keane & berba show.

for me his continual stubborness in playing the toothless 4-5-1 system that everyone can see the players are not comfortable with that create's just about 1 chance per game, has us propping up the league and not looking like winning any game (friendly incl) in the near future has convinced me he needs to go whatever the bolton result is before the gap between us and 17th place gets so big that we need miracles.

the thing is if we were creating a host of chances for the strikers or other players per game or he went back to basics and played the same personel in a 4-4-2 us as fans would have some glimmer of light & something to belive in? but the way he has us set up we will be down by xmas? and for the sake of the club, morale & premiere league staus he should be ousted along with the DoF.

 

[dontcallme]

I like many have serious doubts about Juande Ramos but for now I feel we have to support him to the full and hope he is the right man to turn things around.

If we are still in the bottom 3 come January that is the time when I will start thinking that he has had enough time and it is time for him to go.