Utilising our squad - formations

[Albertbarich]

A serious problem we have if Kane leaves, beyond obviously losing Kane himself, is that Son and Richarlison couldn't be less suited to playing together. They have almost zero complimentary qualities.

If he plays three up top they wouldn't be a pair and the relationship would be different. I could see Son as a number nine to be honest.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Our (almost confirmed) new manager plays an attacking 4-3-3. Therefore, something along the lines of the following seems realistic:

--------------New GK--------------
Emerson--Romero--New LCB--Udogie
-------Bissouma---Bentancur-------
-------------New CAM-------------
---Kulu--------Kane---------Son---

Raya, Laporte & Maddison (or comparable signings) would significantly improve our current starting XI.

That's leaving out some players who are pretty decent as back-up / rotation players, even if we wouldn't want them in our starting XI. Richarlison, Porro, Hojberg, Davies, Dier, Sessegnon might all have a part to play next season. Perisic & Lloris almost certainly won't.

 

[pedrodelawasp]

He could surprise as all and go full copy cat Man City.
A certain much maligned centre back has played almost the exact same role as John Stones is right now. I know it would cause uproar but imagine it worked and it also lets him utilise Porro and Udogie as really attacking wing backs.

Lately, City haven’t been using wing backs at all, though. The system has been a 3241 or 3223 (sort of like the very old school WM formation).

————————GK————————
———RB———-CB————LB——-
—————CDM——-CDM————-
RW———RAM———-LAM———-LW
————————ST————————

There is a lot of fluidity about those positions, though.

Full backs can operate as centre backs effectively, or they can push on with one of the defensive midfielders dropping in to cover.

Those same defensive midfielder, though, can also act more like hybrid 6/8s or box to box midfielders, with the role seemingly changing throughout the game.

The attacking midfielders can drop a little deeper to receive the ball at times and overload the middle of the park, or they can run beyond to either receive balls from the inverted wingers or to create space for them when they cut inside.

I like it a lot as a system.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

Lately, City haven’t been using wing backs at all, though. The system has been a 3241 or 3223 (sort of like the very old school WM formation).

————————GK————————
———RB———-CB————LB——-
—————CDM——-CDM————-
RW———RAM———-LAM———-LW
————————ST————————

There is a lot of fluidity about those positions, though.

Full backs can operate as centre backs effectively, or they can push on with one of the defensive midfielders dropping in to cover.

Those same defensive midfielder, though, can also act more like hybrid 6/8s or box to box midfielders, with the role seemingly changing throughout the game.

The attacking midfielders can drop a little deeper to receive the ball at times and overload the middle of the park, or they can run beyond to either receive balls from the inverted wingers or to create space for them when they cut inside.

I like it a lot as a system.

I think our squad can fit this system well if we sign a CB and an AM (of course we need a new GK)

so it may look like:

 

[danielneeds]

When you’re talking about formations it’s worth noting that with the ball Ange wants to mirror City, Arsenal and most recently Liverpool’s 2-3-5 set up.


**WG******CM**ST***CM******WG*
*******FB*******DM*******FB********
************DEF*****DEF*************

There are different ways to do this, maybe one of the FBs like Porro doesn’t invert and another CM comes back but that’s essentially what he wants in buildup.

 

[rabbikeane]

Not sure he'd like Maddison, nor that Kane and Kulusevski are the best for him.
Reckon he'd prefer more fluid and mobile players. All those in one team would take out some intensity and pressing capability.
Also Kane is hardly ever good (since he lost his peak legs) when there's not fast players taking runs in front of him.

 

[Albertbarich]

When I say copy man city I was referring to using Dier in the Stones role as a midfielder who can drop back, which is exactly what Dier did under Pochettino.

I could see something like this working in home games..

-------------Gk----------------

---Emerson--Romero--Davies---

---------Dier----Bissouma------

Porro-----Bentancour--Kulu--Son

--------------Kane------------


Obviously we would need upgrades in midfield and defence but we're likely as close to that system for personal as any.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

When I say copy man city I was referring to using Dier in the Stones role as a midfielder who can drop back, which is exactly what Dier did under Pochettino.

I could see something like this working in home games..

-------------Gk----------------

---Emerson--Romero--Davies---

---------Dier----Bissouma------

Porro-----Bentancour--Kulu--Son

--------------Kane------------


Obviously we would need upgrades in midfield and defence but we're likely as close to that system for personal as any.

Dier as a DM? Davies? starting? Just No.

 

[Albertbarich]

Dier as a DM? Davies? starting? Just No.

Last paragraph old chap. In regards to Davies.

But my point about Dier was Stones plays that hybrid role that Dier did very well under Poch.

 

[rabbikeane]

Under Poch when Dier was young and could move his feet.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Last paragraph old chap. In regards to Davies.

But my point about Dier was Stones plays that hybrid role that Dier did very well under Poch.

Dier much too slow and stiff to still play DM like he did under Poch. He would do nothing but slow things down in the build-up, and would be out run in his defensive duties.

 

[Albertbarich]

Dier much too slow and stiff to still play DM like he did under Poch. He would do nothing but slow things down in the build-up, and would be out run in his defensive duties.

Maybe/ probably but it's a thought, especially as his biggest issue seems to be concentration just like Stones used to have an issue with.

 

[Yid-ol]

I still say we need 3 in CM

------------- new Gk----------------

---New CB--Romero--New CB---

---------Bentancour----Bissouma------

Porro----------New ACM---------Udogie

--------------Kane--Richarlison--------
​

If kane goes, then son or a new striker to go up top also.

New ACM could have been Son or Kulusevski at a push also.

 

[rabbikeane]

Postecoglou makes fine changes to his football over time, but he's fairly set in the 433.
Expect one holding midfielder, two 8s, no no 10, preference to a mobile hard working striker. Full backs and wide men probably can be somewhat adjusted according to their strengths. Lately it's been about keeping width for the wingers and inverted full backs.

 

[danielneeds]

When I say copy man city I was referring to using Dier in the Stones role as a midfielder who can drop back, which is exactly what Dier did under Pochettino.

I could see something like this working in home games..

-------------Gk----------------

---Emerson--Romero--Davies---

---------Dier----Bissouma------

Porro-----Bentancour--Kulu--Son

--------------Kane------------


Obviously we would need upgrades in midfield and defence but we're likely as close to that system for personal as any.

Would prefer Romero doing that and sign another CB. Romero’s the best progressive passer in our squad maybe.

If you’re gonna do that then Spence becomes a serious option in the Walker cover role. He could be the fastest player in our squad.

 

[felmani26]

Without looking too much in the nuances of it all, I really am looking forward to seeing Bissouma involved under Ange as more progressive 8.

 

[djhotspur]

So, we have no idea which manager will be coming in, or which DoF, and definitely don't know who will be making decisions about signing players etc.
This got me thinking. The last thing we need is another complete revolution, with a fire sale to get rid of players the new team don't want, and the inevitable long drawn out buying sagas.

The vast majority of our sqaud are either confirmed CL quality players, or have proven themselves as top 6 /potential CL quality at other clubs previously. For example, although they might not have shown it here yet, most everyone would agree that Bissouma & PEH showed enough before they came here to be clear top 6/CL quality.

Our strengths are clearly
5+ out and out attacking wingbacks
5+ All-action CMs.
A top class front 3 (if we keep Kane)

Our weakness is primarily central defence, though we have in Romero, a top class CB as good as any, and the other CB are no worse than most other PL teams who did manage to keep goals out.

The reason we mostly shipped goals this season was primarily the system. 3-4-3, especially when it's end up being a 5-2-3 defensively, simply doesn't work. We've been overrun in the middle of the park, and invited far too much pressure on the CBs. Any defence will crack &/or produce stupid individual errors when it's constantly under pressure.

The other weakness is clearly Lloris, who is in my opinion a liability as he doesn't control his box and doesn't give his teenagers any confidence.

So, my solution is as follows. We go down a Hoddle inspired sweeper system - ie with a sweeper in front of the defence - the role Ledley did amazingly well at. This sweeper can either be a ball playing CB, for when we feel we need more defensive nous, or a DM/CM for when we want to be more attacking.

So

------------New Keeper-------------

-------Romero----- --Davies---------

Porro---------Skipp/PEH---------Udogie

------Bentancur-----Bissouma/Sarr----

Richarlison------Kane----------Son.


Second team.

-------------Forster----------------

------Dier-----------Sanchez-------

Royal--------Skipp/PEH------Sessegnon

-------Bissouma/Sarr-----Winks-------

Gil---------Parrott/Scarlett-------Perisic


Ok, so the defence and front line in the second team might need work, but these teams have also left out

Kulusevski (loan)
Lenglet (loan)
Reguilon
Ndombele
Rodon
Spence
Lo Celso

Signed no one, and apart from one striker, taken no one from the academy, and yet seems on paper a very strong team, playing to our strengths, and flexible enough to cope with pressure, or to attack.


What do you think?

Ben Davies in a back 4 is a truly horrendous idea.

 

[djhotspur]

I think our squad can fit this system well if we sign a CB and an AM (of course we need a new GK)

so it may look like:

View attachment 127290

That team just has absolute no pace. Udogie is quite quick but no one in that team is really beating a man and beating someone for true pace.

 

[GetSpurredOn]

I’ve seen Ange plays 433 with one sitting midfielder who collects the ball from defence and dictates tempo, then two more dynamic options ahead who will chase in defence and break forward with runs into the box in attack. The fullbacks need to be capable of going on the outside, or tucking in narrow to fill out CM if the AM/WF’s stay wide, depends on Ange’s preference. All very fluid. For example, if the WF tends to drive infield, either the breaking CM or the FB has to create width. Mason almost appears to have been working this with Emerson stepping forward to add numbers into CM, and Porro ahead of him holding width. Maybe this is linked.

 

[philip]

I’ve seen Ange plays 433 with one sitting midfielder who collects the ball from defence and dictates tempo, then two more dynamic options ahead who will chase in defence and break forward with runs into the box in attack. The fullbacks need to be capable of going on the outside, or tucking in narrow to fill out CM if the AM/WF’s stay wide, depends on Ange’s preference. All very fluid. For example, if the WF tends to drive infield, either the breaking CM or the FB has to create width. Mason almost appears to have been working this with Emerson stepping forward to add numbers into CM, and Porro ahead of him holding width. Maybe this is linked.

Funny enough, that's exactly what I've proposed, I've just placed the WBs slightly further forward, in the position they are more likely to actually occupy.
The 4-3-3 you suggested would just have the WBs in the FB position