Top 4 teams - "dropped points"

[davidmatzdorf]

I've copied this off Spurs Odyssey, because I think it's a job worth doing and well done. And I agree with it. There's not much in it, as I would have suspected.

It has still been getting mentioned that had we not dropped certain points we would have been higher up the table

i brought this up early in the season when we had dropped points to teams we would not be expected to and people were saying if only we hadn't without taking into consideration that the other teams were doing the same also and that if we had won ours and they had won theirs then the points difference would be about the same

i won't include games against each other from the top 4 teams but of those all the top 4 would expect to gain something in my opinion and provide a points tally of dropped points

Tottenham

Bolton draw 2pts
Stoke loss 3pts
Wolves loss 3pts
Fulham draw 2pts
Hull draw 2pts
Birmingham draw 2pts
Wolves loss 3pts
Sunderland loss 3pts
Burnley loss 3pts

23 points

other dropped points
Villa draw away and home 4pts, Everton draw away 2pts, Liverpool away loss 3pts


Gooners

West Ham draw 2pts
Sunderland loss 3pts
Burnley draw 2pts
Everton Home draw 2pts
Birmingham draw 2pts
Wigan loss 3pts
Blackburn loss 3pts

17 points

other dropped points
Man City loss away and draw home 4pts, Villa away draw 2pts

Chelsea

Wigan loss 3pts
Everton Home draw 2pts
West Ham draw 2pts
Birmingham draw 2pts
Hull draw 2pts
Everton loss 3pts
Man City Home loss 3pts
Blackburn draw 2pts

19 points

other dropped points
Villa away loss 3pts, Man City away loss 3pts

Man Utd

Burnley loss 3pts
Sunderland draw 2pts
Liverpool loss 3pts
Villa Home loss 3pts
Fulham loss 3pts
Birmingham draw 2pts
Everton loss 3pts
Blackburn draw 2pts

21 points
other dropped points
Villa draw 1 point

 

[Durrrr]

why isnt chelsea's defeat to us dropped points?

 

[3Dnata]

I'd like to find an improvement of 8-10 points next season.
I'm sure that list has the key to it but hopefully we won't have an inferiority complex against Man U as well.

 

[Achap]

why isnt chelsea's defeat to us dropped points?

Because the OP said "I won't include games against each other from the top 4 teams".

 

[spurslenny]

And all of this proves what exactly?

 

[SpurSince57]

If we hadn't beaten Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool at the Lane and taken six points off our biggest rivals we could have been in Shit Street.

If the queen had balls, she'd be king.

If, if, if… :roll:

 

[C0YS]

Fulham, Bolton and Birmingham draws away from home are hardly dropped points. In fact everyone drawing with Birmingham proves this. People seem to underestimate some of these away games, and just how hard they are.

 

[ExpatFan]

I'd like to find an improvement of 8-10 points next season.
I'm sure that list has the key to it but hopefully we won't have an inferiority complex against Man U as well.

Any team with top 4 aspirations should not be losing to any of the newly promoted clubs - so that's your 9 points right there!

 

[TheChosenOne]

Ferguson said recently that he targets points by firstly wanting to win every home game, then win as many away matches to teams outside the top four, anything else is the bonus.

Simple enough theory I reckon.

 

[worcestersauce]

why isnt chelsea's defeat to us dropped points?

Because they wouldn't have expected to get any points against us, they never win at the lane!

 

[StanSpur]

I think this is all rubbish and shows little respect for other teams in the league. At the end of the day the good thing about football is that any team could win against any team on their day. Yes we lost to some clubs at the bottom of the league but we also beat some above us. This year has shown the league to be a lot more competitive, that may be down to the top 4 not playing consistantly or beacause all teams are getting closer in terms of ability. Regardless of the reasons why, the fact is that we lost games we should have won and we won games we should have lost and that is football. Hopefully we can get more points next season and push for the third spot (however i feel that City will be in the top 3 with Chelsea and Utd next season). It will be harder next year as we include more games into our season, expectation increases and we'll be fighting against the likes of a very strong city, an Arsenal without as many injuries as they had this season, Liverpool who will i'm sure be back in contention and maybe the likes of Villa and Everton who will be strong again. BUT we WILL "drop points" as will everyone else so lets not dwell on it and accept it as part of the game.

 

[jamesc0le]

good post stanspur

 

[davidmatzdorf]

The point, for those who have surprised me a bit by missing it, is that we have had posts all season complaining that we had screwed up our attempt to get into the top 4 and then (after we conspicuously failed to screw it up) that we could have won the title, had we not of dropped so many points to "inferior" sides. The same matches were always quoted: two losses to Wolves, a home loss to Stoke and a home draw to Hull. These were always held up as examples of why were not good enough, not mentally strong enough or simply not fated to succeed.

The OP worked out that all of the other top 4 sides had dropped a similar number of points in their comparable matches, thus showing that we had not performed significantly worse than the others.

It was an argument I made numerous times on the front page here, but I never had the stats to back it up.

 

[crazyteknohed]

I hate the 'dropped points' mentality. You have to win points in football and, point deductions aside, it is not possible to lose points, regardless of the opposition. The term 'dropped points' is often used by a certain hegemonic sports media channel that believes there are only four teams in the league, and that all the other teams only exist to make this little mini-league more 'exciting' when they win games that apparently they shouldn't. I think this mentality is half the reason why the so-called top four have managed to cement their positions in the league*.

* Of course, I'm not taking into account that our beloved club broke up this cosy little arrangement.

 

[danielneeds]

The point, for those who have surprised me a bit by missing it, is that we have had posts all season complaining that we had screwed up our attempt to get into the top 4 and then (after we conspicuously failed to screw it up) that we could have won the title, had we not of dropped so many points to "inferior" sides. The same matches were always quoted: two losses to Wolves, a home loss to Stoke and a home draw to Hull. These were always held up as examples of why were not good enough, not mentally strong enough or simply not fated to succeed.

The OP worked out that all of the other top 4 sides had dropped a similar number of points in their comparable matches, thus showing that we had not performed significantly worse than the others.

It was an argument I made numerous times on the front page here, but I never had the stats to back it up.

I think a lot of the "dropped points" arguments stem from the manner of the performance though.

I don't think many can argue we deserved much in both ties against Wolves, we were simply woeful. However against Stoke and Hull, we pummeled the opposition goal, Everton away, had a penalty to win it with the last kick of the match, and so on.

Obviously none of us have watched enough of all the other big teams matches to compare their performances and results to ascertain what constitutes dropped points, and what were just bad performances.

Still the basic point of the post is valid though. The league doesn't lie.

 

[spurslenny]

the 'should have won, could have won' comparisions are completely and utterly pointless.

Every other team in the world will be saying exactly the same thing, which means there's a big merry-go-round of points that everyone believed that they had a divine right to win.

Futile trying to work out who should won what where and when. We deserved to finish where we did (4th woohoo!! :grin in just the same way that if we had finished 5th we would have deserved that as well.

 

[Riandor]

To me it highlights how poor the traditional Sky 4 have been this season.

Liverpool obviously the most catastrohic, but all of the others have been very beatable this season.

This is not meant to belittle our achievement but it highlights if anything that we still need to invest in key players to now stay in the top 4.

Liverpool and Man Utd sold Key players (Alonso and Ronaldo) and paid the price... Chelsea capitalised vs Man Utd and we did vs Liverpool by grabbing 4th.

That is the difference. Points have been proverbially dropped because the top teams are missing that special key player who can go missing for 89minutes and then win the game in a blink of an eye.

We have grabbed 4th by having the solid team foundation that you need, now it's time for that special one to carry us forth.

R.

 

[SpurSince57]

I think a lot of the "dropped points" arguments stem from the manner of the performance though.

I don't think many can argue we deserved much in both ties against Wolves, we were simply woeful. However against Stoke and Hull, we pummeled the opposition goal, Everton away, had a penalty to win it with the last kick of the match, and so on.

Obviously none of us have watched enough of all the other big teams matches to compare their performances and results to ascertain what constitutes dropped points, and what were just bad performances.

Still the basic point of the post is valid though. The league doesn't lie.

We were—but why? I don't know, you don't know, Harry doesn't know—nor does anyone else. We should, in theory, have creamed Wolves. That's football.