The Y Word

[nailsy]

It's like I said A+C, nobody forces you or anyone else to join in. Your free choice and that's the end of that really.

.

But people are forced to listen to it. Where's the free choice in that? And it's not just inside the stadium either. I've heard it chanted miles away from the stadium on non-matchdays when people see another Tottenham fan they know.

This is the essence of the whole thing.

Very telling that one of the Jewish lads in the video I posted, said that his Gran was offended by it until she watched one of the videos about how it become used by the Spurs fans and then she completely changed her outlook saying ‘Ah I get it now!’.

It's great that she had a chance to get it, but how many people are offended because they don't know the context and they don't have anyone to explain it to them. I just think there must be a better way to show solidarity without chanting something that some people find offensive.

I’m surprised this hasn’t been picked up by the media, unless I have missed it.

It was on the BBC website: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/60330719

 

[wrd]

I’m surprised this hasn’t been picked up by the media, unless I have missed it.

Skysports covered it big time, it was their leading story on the day.

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

It has always been my belief, again as a practising observant Jew, that our chants of YID ARMY represents one of the most powerful and profound messages of anti-racism in the game.

It is one of the many reasons why i have such a strong affinity and connection with this club, in spite of the pain and disappointment supporting THFC has caused me (and all of us) over the years.

I have grown up in this country for most, though not all of my life. I cannot count the number of times I have been called a “fucking Jew” or a “Jew c**t”, the same goes for my wife and my kids. My son got a measure of this when he was called “Jew bastard” at only 8 years old. My 81 year old father has suffered this kind of abuse more and more just walking from his home to synagogue in the morning

And things have got worse, considerably worse over the last few years.

And yet here we have the fans of one of the most famous and well supported clubs in the world, putting their protective arms around their Jewish supporters in an act of solidarity, and what does the world declare…….stop it!!

In the opening game at the new stadium against Palace - i stumbled across a group of Orthodox Jews in the west stand concourse who were praying the evening service - out loud, not hiding and with yarmulkas on. I joined in, completely safe and completely comfortable. There was not one single comment or word of abuse. I dont believe there is any club in the country where a group of Jews would have dared do this, let alone could have conducted a 20 minute evening prayer service in the open without being self conscious or suffering some form of attack from at least one moron.

This is Tottenham Hotspur and this is what this clubs affinity and embrace of its Jewish fans means. It is something to be proud of and celebrated not expunged.

The most galling thing in all of this is that FAR FAR FAR more focus is being placed on our supporters, whose intention is unambiguously anti-racist than the fans of Chelsea and West Ham, whose intent with their Hitler and gas chamber songs are unambiguously racist. This is the mad topsy turvey world we live in.

How did our embrace of out Jewish fans become the bigger story than Chelsea and West Ham’s antisemitic decades long racist abuse.

In large part the answer is David Baddiel - as stated in previous posts, Baddiel is not bothered by YID ARMY chants because he is Jewish but because he is a Jewish Chelsea fan. Every time he hears us sing YID ARMY the contrast between THFC’s embrace of its Jewish fan base and the racist antisemitic nature of his fans become too stark for him to bear and he becomes embarrassed to be a chelsea fan - well good, because he should be embarrassed.

He blocked me on twitter when i told him that if he didn’t like raw fish he shouldnt order sushi and if he didn’t like antisemitism at football, he shouldn’t support Chelsea.

I will never stop singing YID ARMY. It is something about our precious club that should always be celebrated and embraced.

Powerful stuff that...compelling argument for the "pro"side.

Reading stuff like that makes me proud of our club.

COYS

 

[Saoirse]

But people are forced to listen to it. Where's the free choice in that? And it's not just inside the stadium either. I've heard it chanted miles away from the stadium on non-matchdays when people see another Tottenham fan they know.



It's great that she had a chance to get it, but how many people are offended because they don't know the context and they don't have anyone to explain it to them. I just think there must be a better way to show solidarity without chanting something that some people find offensive.


It was on the BBC website: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/60330719

Sorry, but the idea that you have the freedom to not hear words you don't like is mad. Where on earth would that ever end? No swearing in public? No controversial opinions?

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I find it rather puzzling that people are trying to have some sort of issue with Jewish people chanting Yid Army (etc) and are trying to make a thing out of it.

Yet black people release songs, movies, books etc, referring to each other by "The N Word" and nobody seems to have the slightest issue whatsoever & I'm not seeing any campaigns to get that banned.

What's the difference? Why is one acceptable but the other not?

 

[fieryjack]

Skysports covered it big time, it was their leading story on the day.

Sky Sports would cover the opening of a crisp bag if it was football related, they’ve got minutes to fill.

 

[Spurslove]

Sky Sports would cover the opening of a crisp bag if it was football related, they’ve got minutes to fill.

...and probably crisps to sell given a chance.

.

 

[mil1lion]

Isn't this where "we sang it in France and we sung it in Spain.." came from? They tried to stop us but look what it did. Maybe we should change the lyrics to "they tried to stop us and now they have" and just end the song

 

[JollyHappy]

For what it's worth I am a Jewish fan and have been going for about 45 years. I do not find the chants offensive in any way and I have said as much in any surveys.

Yid has in the past been used as an anti semitic term but these days anyone wishing to attack Jewish people invariably uses something along the lines of dirty jew, zionist or similar. I cannot recall having heard yid used in this context in the past 30 years nor in any antisemitic graffiti.

Of course the term is used as anti spurs but that is very different.

So as far as I am concerned keep the chants coming!

 

[nailsy]

Sorry, but the idea that you have the freedom to not hear words you don't like is mad. Where on earth would that ever end? No swearing in public? No controversial opinions?

Well, yes, it's impossible to implement that You're forced to listen to what other people shout and sing. You don't have the freedom to choose which is why the club are asking people to think about not using a word that others can find offensive.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

I find it rather puzzling that people are trying to have some sort of issue with Jewish people chanting Yid Army (etc) and are trying to make a thing out of it.

Yet black people release songs, movies, books etc, referring to each other by "The N Word" and nobody seems to have the slightest issue whatsoever & I'm not seeing any campaigns to get that banned.

What's the difference? Why is one acceptable but the other not?

@ohtottenham! , I never ask about ratings & don't give a monkeys about them.

But I'm intrigued as to how my question was/is off topic? Or why it's not a perfectly valid question?

Yids took on the chant to stop it being used against them, they're chanting about themselves & people are calling for bans etc.

So what's the difference between Yids chanting/singing about Yids, and rap music/films being filled with them calling each other The N Word?

I don't get it?

 

[fingersinc]

can someone put a poll up please...

You don’t need a poll. This is obviously going to be sung even louder on Sunday.

 

[mil1lion]

I would say our most offensive songs are the rentboy chants to Chelsea, pikey ones to West Ham, the 2 Sol Campbell songs and the Arsenal fan on a string.
There should be a bigger campaign to kick those out than anything calling ourselves yids.

 

[M.I.B.]

It has always been my belief, again as a practising observant Jew, that our chants of YID ARMY represents one of the most powerful and profound messages of anti-racism in the game.

It is one of the many reasons why i have such a strong affinity and connection with this club, in spite of the pain and disappointment supporting THFC has caused me (and all of us) over the years.

I have grown up in this country for most, though not all of my life. I cannot count the number of times I have been called a “fucking Jew” or a “Jew c**t”, the same goes for my wife and my kids. My son got a measure of this when he was called “Jew bastard” at only 8 years old. My 81 year old father has suffered this kind of abuse more and more just walking from his home to synagogue in the morning

And things have got worse, considerably worse over the last few years.

And yet here we have the fans of one of the most famous and well supported clubs in the world, putting their protective arms around their Jewish supporters in an act of solidarity, and what does the world declare…….stop it!!

In the opening game at the new stadium against Palace - i stumbled across a group of Orthodox Jews in the west stand concourse who were praying the evening service - out loud, not hiding and with yarmulkas on. I joined in, completely safe and completely comfortable. There was not one single comment or word of abuse. I dont believe there is any club in the country where a group of Jews would have dared do this, let alone could have conducted a 20 minute evening prayer service in the open without being self conscious or suffering some form of attack from at least one moron.

This is Tottenham Hotspur and this is what this clubs affinity and embrace of its Jewish fans means. It is something to be proud of and celebrated not expunged.

The most galling thing in all of this is that FAR FAR FAR more focus is being placed on our supporters, whose intention is unambiguously anti-racist than the fans of Chelsea and West Ham, whose intent with their Hitler and gas chamber songs are unambiguously racist. This is the mad topsy turvey world we live in.

How did our embrace of out Jewish fans become the bigger story than Chelsea and West Ham’s antisemitic decades long racist abuse.

In large part the answer is David Baddiel - as stated in previous posts, Baddiel is not bothered by YID ARMY chants because he is Jewish but because he is a Jewish Chelsea fan. Every time he hears us sing YID ARMY the contrast between THFC’s embrace of its Jewish fan base and the racist antisemitic nature of his fans become too stark for him to bear and he becomes embarrassed to be a chelsea fan - well good, because he should be embarrassed.

He blocked me on twitter when i told him that if he didn’t like raw fish he shouldnt order sushi and if he didn’t like antisemitism at football, he shouldn’t support Chelsea.

I will never stop singing YID ARMY. It is something about our precious club that should always be celebrated and embraced.

That really is a superb post

 

[vicbob]

It has always been my belief, again as a practising observant Jew, that our chants of YID ARMY represents one of the most powerful and profound messages of anti-racism in the game.

It is one of the many reasons why i have such a strong affinity and connection with this club, in spite of the pain and disappointment supporting THFC has caused me (and all of us) over the years.

I have grown up in this country for most, though not all of my life. I cannot count the number of times I have been called a “fucking Jew” or a “Jew c**t”, the same goes for my wife and my kids. My son got a measure of this when he was called “Jew bastard” at only 8 years old. My 81 year old father has suffered this kind of abuse more and more just walking from his home to synagogue in the morning

And things have got worse, considerably worse over the last few years.

And yet here we have the fans of one of the most famous and well supported clubs in the world, putting their protective arms around their Jewish supporters in an act of solidarity, and what does the world declare…….stop it!!

In the opening game at the new stadium against Palace - i stumbled across a group of Orthodox Jews in the west stand concourse who were praying the evening service - out loud, not hiding and with yarmulkas on. I joined in, completely safe and completely comfortable. There was not one single comment or word of abuse. I dont believe there is any club in the country where a group of Jews would have dared do this, let alone could have conducted a 20 minute evening prayer service in the open without being self conscious or suffering some form of attack from at least one moron.

This is Tottenham Hotspur and this is what this clubs affinity and embrace of its Jewish fans means. It is something to be proud of and celebrated not expunged.

The most galling thing in all of this is that FAR FAR FAR more focus is being placed on our supporters, whose intention is unambiguously anti-racist than the fans of Chelsea and West Ham, whose intent with their Hitler and gas chamber songs are unambiguously racist. This is the mad topsy turvey world we live in.

How did our embrace of out Jewish fans become the bigger story than Chelsea and West Ham’s antisemitic decades long racist abuse.

In large part the answer is David Baddiel - as stated in previous posts, Baddiel is not bothered by YID ARMY chants because he is Jewish but because he is a Jewish Chelsea fan. Every time he hears us sing YID ARMY the contrast between THFC’s embrace of its Jewish fan base and the racist antisemitic nature of his fans become too stark for him to bear and he becomes embarrassed to be a chelsea fan - well good, because he should be embarrassed.

He blocked me on twitter when i told him that if he didn’t like raw fish he shouldnt order sushi and if he didn’t like antisemitism at football, he shouldn’t support Chelsea.

I will never stop singing YID ARMY. It is something about our precious club that should always be celebrated and embraced.

This should be sent to every news agency that covers the subject, but unfortunately, even if it was, it would be ignored, as it doesn’t fit the narrative.
Very powerful and very thought provoking post ????

 

[Bowlesinho]

I'm not Jewish, so I cannot honestly empathise or fully understand the complexities on both sides of the argument. I won't pretend to.

For my input though, my little boy is 7, he has friends who all support various different clubs. He gets called a Yid by his friends at football, by Arsenal fans, a Leeds fan, a Newcastle fan, etc. Those kids mean it as an insult, but an insult of supporting Tottenham...the meaning of the word is/has been changed through generations, and I think that is really powerful.

 

[ohtottenham!]

@ohtottenham! , I never ask about ratings & don't give a monkeys about them.

But I'm intrigued as to how my question was/is off topic? Or why it's not a perfectly valid question?

Yids took on the chant to stop it being used against them, they're chanting about themselves & people are calling for bans etc.

So what's the difference between Yids chanting/singing about Yids, and rap music/films being filled with them calling each other The N Word?

I don't get it?

Off topic because the context is always about a football club; Spurs. We wouldn't be here otherwise. You brought in the N-word and rappers to make a point. Well, there's never been a football club with a fanbase that has ever had a N-word chant for many historical reasons... so I'm not seeing any kind of parallel.

Ftr, I love the Yiddos chant when I hear it especially in those great moments like when Bergwijn did his thing a couple of weeks back. That's all about being a Spurs fan. We all feel it. That's all it is for me. And I bet that applies to most fans...some of whom could be raging anti-semites or couldn't care less either way.

I've always been conflicted re its use by fans and I still am; not a bad thing. I'll listen to Jewish fans more than anyone else on this particular issue and there's a whole range of opinion there. I can happily say I'm a Yid, although I'm not Jewish, like many other Spurs fans here.

Re your parallel, we've never been at a place where any fanbase can say "I'm a N-word". I gave you an off topic because you're going into areas that belong in other threads...imo.

 

[Spurslove]

Off topic because the context is always about a football club; Spurs. We wouldn't be here otherwise. You brought in the N-word and rappers to make a point. Well, there's never been a football club with a fanbase that has ever had a N-word chant for many historical reasons... so I'm not seeing any kind of parallel.

Ftr, I love the Yiddos chant when I hear it especially in those great moments like when Bergwijn did his thing a couple of weeks back. That's all about being a Spurs fan. We all feel it. That's all it is for me. And I bet that applies to most fans...some of whom could be raging anti-semites or couldn't care less either way.

I've always been conflicted re its use by fans and I still am; not a bad thing. I'll listen to Jewish fans more than anyone else on this particular issue and there's a whole range of opinion there. I can happily say I'm a Yid, although I'm not Jewish, like many other Spurs fans here.

Re your parallel, we've never been at a place where any fanbase can say "I'm a N-word". I gave you an off topic because you're going into areas that belong in other threads...imo.

Wow, now there's something I never considered. I wonder how many (if any) 'raging anti-semites' are happy to join in with the 'Yiddo' chants as a show of solidarity with other Spurs fans.

Maybe that's something we could investigate with the same vigour as we do the 'Y' word.

That's something I'll have to give some thought to. Blimey.

.

 

[ohtottenham!]

Wow, now there's something I never considered. I wonder how many (if any) 'raging anti-semites' are happy to join in with the 'Yiddo' chants as a show of solidarity with other Spurs fans.

Maybe that's something we could investigate with the same vigour as we do the 'Y' word.

That's something I'll have to give some thought to. Blimey.

.

Just making a point, mate, you can take the "raging" descriptor out if it helps. A Spurs fan getting excited and chanting "Yiddo" means they're a Spurs fan first. That much we know.

 

[absolute bobbins]

It has always been my belief, again as a practising observant Jew, that our chants of YID ARMY represents one of the most powerful and profound messages of anti-racism in the game.

It is one of the many reasons why i have such a strong affinity and connection with this club, in spite of the pain and disappointment supporting THFC has caused me (and all of us) over the years.

I have grown up in this country for most, though not all of my life. I cannot count the number of times I have been called a “fucking Jew” or a “Jew c**t”, the same goes for my wife and my kids. My son got a measure of this when he was called “Jew bastard” at only 8 years old. My 81 year old father has suffered this kind of abuse more and more just walking from his home to synagogue in the morning

And things have got worse, considerably worse over the last few years.

And yet here we have the fans of one of the most famous and well supported clubs in the world, putting their protective arms around their Jewish supporters in an act of solidarity, and what does the world declare…….stop it!!

In the opening game at the new stadium against Palace - i stumbled across a group of Orthodox Jews in the west stand concourse who were praying the evening service - out loud, not hiding and with yarmulkas on. I joined in, completely safe and completely comfortable. There was not one single comment or word of abuse. I dont believe there is any club in the country where a group of Jews would have dared do this, let alone could have conducted a 20 minute evening prayer service in the open without being self conscious or suffering some form of attack from at least one moron.

This is Tottenham Hotspur and this is what this clubs affinity and embrace of its Jewish fans means. It is something to be proud of and celebrated not expunged.

The most galling thing in all of this is that FAR FAR FAR more focus is being placed on our supporters, whose intention is unambiguously anti-racist than the fans of Chelsea and West Ham, whose intent with their Hitler and gas chamber songs are unambiguously racist. This is the mad topsy turvey world we live in.

How did our embrace of out Jewish fans become the bigger story than Chelsea and West Ham’s antisemitic decades long racist abuse.

In large part the answer is David Baddiel - as stated in previous posts, Baddiel is not bothered by YID ARMY chants because he is Jewish but because he is a Jewish Chelsea fan. Every time he hears us sing YID ARMY the contrast between THFC’s embrace of its Jewish fan base and the racist antisemitic nature of his fans become too stark for him to bear and he becomes embarrassed to be a chelsea fan - well good, because he should be embarrassed.

He blocked me on twitter when i told him that if he didn’t like raw fish he shouldnt order sushi and if he didn’t like antisemitism at football, he shouldn’t support Chelsea.

I will never stop singing YID ARMY. It is something about our precious club that should always be celebrated and embraced.

Perfect. You hit the nail on the head so hard that it went through the wall, out the otherside and through another wall.