The Y Word

[razor1981]

I've been going to matches for over 30 years, had a season ticket for the last 20, and I've sung these songs loud and proud throughout that time - but after reading today about the club's stance and the reasons behind it, I won't be joining in with any of the y-word songs from now on.

In the past, whenever our use of the term has been questioned it seems to have come from outside of the club - whether that be journalists, lawyers, police or whoever - without any real understanding for the context or intent. Ignoring those authorities has always felt like we were 'punching upwards', an act of defiance whilst standing in solidarity with our fellow Jewish fans. "THEY" tried to stop us, and look what it did...

This time is different though. It isn't anybody from the outside telling us what to do, instead it is some of our fellow supporters telling us that they are uncomfortable with our continued use of the term.

For me personally (and I understand that not everyone will think or feel the same) to continue using it now would no longer feel like 'punching up', it would feel like saying to some of our fellow Spurs fans - particularly those who may suffer abuse outside of football due to their Jewish heritage - that we don't care about upsetting them because we think our right to sing whatever we want is more important. And I don't feel comfortable with that at all.

It's not a simple issue, there's a lot of history and nuance tied up in it, but now, for me at least, it feels like time to move on from using the word at the Lane.

 

[Harrier]

I've been going to matches for over 30 years, had a season ticket for the last 20, and I've sung these songs loud and proud throughout that time - but after reading today about the club's stance and the reasons behind it, I won't be joining in with any of the y-word songs from now on.

In the past, whenever our use of the term has been questioned it seems to have come from outside of the club - whether that be journalists, lawyers, police or whoever - without any real understanding for the context or intent. Ignoring those authorities has always felt like we were 'punching upwards', an act of defiance whilst standing in solidarity with our fellow Jewish fans. "THEY" tried to stop us, and look what it did...

This time is different though. It isn't anybody from the outside telling us what to do, instead it is some of our fellow supporters telling us that they are uncomfortable with our continued use of the term.

For me personally (and I understand that not everyone will think or feel the same) to continue using it now would no longer feel like 'punching up', it would feel like saying to some of our fellow Spurs fans - particularly those who may suffer abuse outside of football due to their Jewish heritage - that we don't care about upsetting them because we think our right to sing whatever we want is more important. And I don't feel comfortable with that at all.

It's not a simple issue, there's a lot of history and nuance tied up in it, but now, for me at least, it feels like time to move on from using the word at the Lane.

It will be challenging to move on, as you say it’s woven into the history of the club and is sometimes used in all innocence, but us fans know exactly what is meant by it e.g. ‘Defoe is a Yiddo!’ etc.

 

[riggi]

I’ll still sing it. I welcome the ban. Would do me a favour.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Spoiler: survey results

does this not suggest that if we were to just leave it to play out naturally, then in a few generations' time the original meaning of the word will become virtually obsolete? the current older generations find the word offensive and upsetting, which is perfectly understandable, but does that mean we have to hit a reset so we can preserve its original meaning? language evolves over time, why can't we let this?

 

[alexis]

I still don’t get it but I am a fifty year old white dude. But that also means I’ve grown up during some of the worst overt racism. I’ve never seen Yid as anything other than a shortened version of Yiddish. Same as japs or brits. I read earlier someone saying there was graffiti daubed of yids out but just don’t think it’s any different in it’s version of brits out just shortened. I’ve never looked at yids as the same as p or n otherwise I wouldn’t sing it. Someone help a thick old fk out please

 

[agrdavidsfan]

If it causes offense to Jewish supporters at the games I will happily stop singing it

 

[beats1]

I have gone full 180, I think it is time to move on

BUT I dont think its time to move from our jewish roots/heritage. Now I some people from jewish community(not spurs fans) would question our Jewish heritage as scholar, was our first Jewish owner.

However its clear for over a century, a small minority in the UK that is the jewish community have been a big part of our history and its worth honouring them

Us no longer using the Y word shouldn't also mean we turn our back on that part of our rich history. That also includes the use of the Y word, it should be recorded in our museums why we used it and the abuse we suffered at the same time why we no longer use it and instead put pressure on clubs to tackle racism/anti-semitism

 

[SpursMadDave]

One of the most cringe worthy things for me is hearing a young kid shouting it

 

[Harrier]

Interesting video from these guys, who are Jewish Spurs fans.

 

[topper]

One of the most cringe worthy things for me is hearing a young kid shouting it

Maybe they can start chanting 'Kid Army'?

 

[Saoirse]

Spoiler: survey results

does this not suggest that if we were to just leave it to play out naturally, then in a few generations' time the original meaning of the word will become virtually obsolete? the current older generations find the word offensive and upsetting, which is perfectly understandable, but does that mean we have to hit a reset so we can preserve its original meaning? language evolves over time, why can't we let this?

The other somewhat misleading thing about that question is that not everyone chants anything regularly, or even occasionally. There's many thousands who don't contribute to the atmosphere whatsoever, neither Yid chants nor anything else. It would be much more informative to compare the numbers who use Yid with the numbers who chant, but they've never collected data on the latter that I know of.

 

[Spurslove]

Is there any actual proof that Jewish Spurs fans are offended by it and want it to stop?

In my head, I have a scenario in which a Nazi officer confronts a crowd of maybe 1,000 people and demands that all the Jews in the crowd take a step forward, and everyone steps forward as a sign of solidarity.

That's what reclaiming an offensive word means to me. Most of the people who sing it aren't even Jewish and they sing it proudly as a form of self identification. It's a sign of strength, not weakness and if anyone doesn't understand our right to self-identify ourselves this way, they should educate themselves, whether they're Jewish or otherwise.

How many times have we got to discuss this FFS. Are we really in such a state that we're considering banning a 3-letter word being spoken or sung?

Context is everything in this and I'm only sorry that so many people have no idea what that means. There's no law which says you must or mustn't sing it, it's entirely up to your own personal choice and that's good enough for me.

None of us has a crystal ball and maybe over time, it will phase itself out naturally but right now, as a Jewish Spurs fan, I'm completely OK with it.

.

 

[dontcallme]

Is there any actual proof that Jewish Spurs fans are offended by it and want it to stop?

In my head, I have a scenario in which a Nazi officer confronts a crowd of maybe 1,000 people and demands that all the Jews in the crowd take a step forward, and everyone steps forward as a sign of solidarity.

That's what reclaiming an offensive word means to me. Most of the people who sing it aren't even Jewish and they sing it proudly as a form of self identification. It's a sign of strength, not weakness and if anyone doesn't understand our right to self-identify ourselves this way, they should educate themselves, whether they're Jewish or otherwise.

How many times have we got to discuss this FFS. Are we really in such a state that we're considering banning a 3-letter word being spoken or sung?

Context is everything in this and I'm only sorry that so many people have no idea what that means. There's no law which says you must or mustn't sing it, it's entirely up to personal choice and that's good enough for me.

None of us has a crystal ball and maybe over time, it will phase itself out naturally but right now, as a Jewish Spurs fan, I'm completely OK with it.

.

The club did a survey looking into the issue. I haven’t got round to checking it out yet but it’s a good place to start.

 

[Dannyspur]

Spoiler: survey results

does this not suggest that if we were to just leave it to play out naturally, then in a few generations' time the original meaning of the word will become virtually obsolete? the current older generations find the word offensive and upsetting, which is perfectly understandable, but does that mean we have to hit a reset so we can preserve its original meaning? language evolves over time, why can't we let this?

I think that the graph demonstrates the complete opposite, it is sung by the youngsters coming through who grow out of it as they get older and more sensible/sensitive

 

[Saoirse]

I think that the graph demonstrates the complete opposite, it is sung by the youngsters coming through who grow out of it as they get older and more sensible/sensitive

I'm not sure it's reasonable to suggest that our generation lacks sensitivity. In fact the common portrayal is the exact opposite, that we're far more sensitive and even "woke" (perhaps overly so) than older generations. I don't think we've decided that we have some divine right to scream racist things en masse. I think we've looked at the argument and mainly reached the conclusion that it isn't racist in the slightest.

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Some of us have fuck all else in our empty, meaningless lives.

YIDARMY .

 

[absolute bobbins]

Is there any actual proof that Jewish Spurs fans are offended by it and want it to stop?

In my head, I have a scenario in which a Nazi officer confronts a crowd of maybe 1,000 people and demands that all the Jews in the crowd take a step forward, and everyone steps forward as a sign of solidarity.

That's what reclaiming an offensive word means to me. Most of the people who sing it aren't even Jewish and they sing it proudly as a form of self identification. It's a sign of strength, not weakness and if anyone doesn't understand our right to self-identify ourselves this way, they should educate themselves, whether they're Jewish or otherwise.

How many times have we got to discuss this FFS. Are we really in such a state that we're considering banning a 3-letter word being spoken or sung?

Context is everything in this and I'm only sorry that so many people have no idea what that means. There's no law which says you must or mustn't sing it, it's entirely up to personal choice and that's good enough for me.

None of us has a crystal ball and maybe over time, it will phase itself out naturally but right now, as a Jewish Spurs fan, I'm completely OK with it.

.

You know what, I actually think the only Jews who won't want Spurs to sing Yid are the self hating mob. The types who don't keep the traditions and have no skin in the game. Frankly if you fall into that catagory then you opinions on the matter are of no more value than any other Brit.

I will also add that I have never been called a Yid when someone wants to demonstrate their jealousy for not being part of the tribe. Jew is the perjorative that is always used. Dirty/filthy Jew, Jew bastard, sneaky Jew are the kind of shit I hear from idiots and from the middle class antisemites it's nuanced but questions ones loyalty or influence "It was obviously easy for you to secure funding for your business with all of your connections" was put to me at a dinner party a few years back.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I've sung the songs for years. But a while ago now I asked myself, will not singing songs with the word in it mean I enjoy games any less. Of course not. What do I gain from carrying on singing it? Fuck all. Am I bothered about having the right to do it? Not in the slightest. I just don't see the point in it any more, times are changing.

I just think maybe it's time now. So stopping is where i'm at with it.

 

[dontcallme]

I've sung the songs for years. But a while ago now I asked myself, will not singing songs with the word in it mean I enjoy games any less. Of course not. What do I gain from carrying on singing it? Fuck all. Am I bothered about having the right to do it? Not in the slightest. I just don't see the point in it any more, times are changing.

I just think maybe it's time now. So stopping is where i'm at with it.

Interesting to see the change. The issue has always split people.

Years ago a lot of the posts from people who wanted to keep using the phrase were very adamant that they wouldn’t stop.

Seeing people think it’s time to stop is an interesting turn of events.

 

[Spurslove]

I've sung the songs for years. But a while ago now I asked myself, will not singing songs with the word in it mean I enjoy games any less. Of course not. What do I gain from carrying on singing it? Fuck all. Am I bothered about having the right to do it? Not in the slightest. I just don't see the point in it any more, times are changing.

I just think maybe it's time now. So stopping is where i'm at with it.

It's like I said A+C, nobody forces you or anyone else to join in. Your free choice and that's the end of that really.

.