The Poch Press..

[Ghost Hardware]

Said as much in another thread, but one really should not dismiss the change in pitch size. Wembley is a lot bigger then our old one at the Lane, taking away the press was clearly a conscious choice by Poch. Obviously player fatigue, Injuries etc play a big part. But Its obviously a choice by Poch.

 

[EQP]

Said as much in another thread, but one really should not dismiss the change in pitch size. Wembley is a lot bigger then our old one at the Lane, taking away the press was clearly a conscious choice by Poch. Obviously player fatigue, Injuries etc play a big part. But Its obviously a choice by Poch.

One that Lamela doesn't follow. Here's the thing, I don't think we should press the opposition the entire game but we should choose to press the opponents intermittently. What we're seeing is a couple players attempting to press ( Moura & Lamela primarily) and the rest watching it unfold.

 

[JCRD]

Said as much in another thread, but one really should not dismiss the change in pitch size. Wembley is a lot bigger then our old one at the Lane, taking away the press was clearly a conscious choice by Poch. Obviously player fatigue, Injuries etc play a big part. But Its obviously a choice by Poch.

I agree and said as much in my earlier post that I think Poch is trying to prevent burn out. If Wembley is an issue, why arent we pressing then say in our away games? or we deciding to hit on the counter? Also why are we unable to say press some teams and not others at homes games i.e. pick and choose - isnt that what adopting different tactics are..

I dont really miss the pressing game so much as I miss us attacking with high intensity and pace (which could be the issue with the full backs being so pedestrian). Tippy tappy is fine at a two goal lead but its unnerving in a one goal lead.

 

[smallsnc]

It was knocked down with WHL

This is partially true. Our best pressing was at WHL in part because the field was smaller and gave teams less space to play through while we had less space to cover. It was why we struggled early on with Poch when we played away, IMO. Now, we have had to learn to be more cautious as to when we press so that we do not wear ourselves out.

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

Coincides with us playing at Wembley. To me I agree that Walker and Rose were so important to it but I also think there's been an active decision not to press given we're on this huge pitch

New stadium will have the same size pitch, no?

 

[ljinko888]

Yes indeed where did that team go shame it has disappeared.

One got sold. Others are crocked. And one or two may just not fancy it anymore.

This group of players have been together for a while. Growing together as footballers...and in age. Youthful exuberance in your early 20s when you are new and want to prove yourself often goes when you have reached a certain point.

 

[dudu]

One got sold. Others are crocked. And one or two may just not fancy it anymore.

This group of players have been together for a while. Growing together as footballers...and in age. Youthful exuberance in your early 20s when you are new and want to prove yourself often goes when you have reached a certain point.

Are you suggesting the players have just decided not to press?

Surely it has to be down to instruction from Poch.

 

[bomberH]

Losing the press concerned me but as has been said, the pitch is bigger plus burnout throughout the season are probably the main reasons why it’s stopped. What concerns me more is the fact we don’t even seem to try and kill teams off when we’re 1 goal ahead. We still create chances but sometimes we play like we’re 4-0 up, no urgency when we’re in possession. Just passing it safe and sideways.... venture near their penalty area and then pass back to Lloris again.. We did it yet again last night at 2-1. All over them all match, get to 2-1 and take the foot off the gas and all it takes is a dodgy pass from Eriksen and a rush of blood from Lloris and that’s it.

A couple of seasons ago other managers called us beasts and saying they haven’t played a team like us because of the press and style. Now we don’t press and we don’t even push much unless we go a goal down. If we keep putting the effort in when we go ahead then teams will fear us again and we score that important 2nd or 3rd goal.

With all that said, it’s still our best start to a PL season and we completely dominated Inter and PSV and scored 2 goals against Barca. It isn’t all bad but it could be so much better if we killed teams off when we should.

 

[spids]

Sorry ... anyone ending an opening sentence with ... “discuss”. That’s just pretentious!

 

[Hazelton]

I don't think it's fatigue, I think it's just the result of familiarity. The new manager, in this case Poch, comes in and wants to set down a marker and build from the ground up so he stresses the importance of playing his way and drills it home to the players. Anyone who doesn't get it or isn't willing to do it is shown the door.

Similarly, the players want to impress the new manager so they work 10% harder in order to prove that they can learn, play and execute his system, particularly the younger players who know this is their chance to impress and finally get some proper game time.

As the years have gone on, it's just become normal. Poch has been here a relatively long time now and the players have nothing left to prove, the starting lineup is fundamentally the same every game. That's why we needed to invest and challenge some of them and that's why our game and particularly our press isn't as good. Comfort.

 

[ljinko888]

Are you suggesting the players have just decided not to press?

Surely it has to be down to instruction from Poch.

I think players subconsciously do think that way. If you ran like animals for a couple years but got no reward (silverware) for your efforts, and you start picking up injuries I have no doubt doubts enter your mind.

That's why Ferguson was so good at knowing when a player or a group of players have been maxed out. He knlw when to get rid of big names as a marker.

 

[sickboy_se]

Don't think it's really disappeared, just the triggers have been adjusted. We're just doing it in low risk/high reward situations rather than all the time. Probably wise to preserve the squad and I think we'll adjust more and more back the further we get in the new year. But it does make us look a bit bland out of possession sometimes and it certainly means we have to play against a deep defence in good positions a lot more.

 

[onthetwo]

Wembley is 10m2 bigger than the WHL pitch so i dont really buy that excuse.
I can buy that it FEELS bigger as the crowd are further away but that makes it a mental challenge more than a physical one.
Anyway, if we dont run around like nutters i think we will get nothing on Monday evening so heres hoping the lads are up for it.

 

[Locotoro]

A big part of football is the mental perception of the team you're up against. When teams came up against Spurs previously they would know we would press them to within an inch of their lives and that would make them play more cautiously against us.

Now we don't have that aura of being machine like in our approach and teams come up against us and expect us to make mistakes they can capitalise on.

 

[philip]

One that Lamela doesn't follow. Here's the thing, I don't think we should press the opposition the entire game but we should choose to press the opponents intermittently. What we're seeing is a couple players attempting to press ( Moura & Lamela primarily) and the rest watching it unfold.

Do you think it's a coincidence that the two still doing the press are the two feet ones with something to prove?

Walker noticeably improved once Trippier came. So did Rose when Davies arrived and Dier when Wanyama was bought.
All players need to be kept on their toes and every team needs freshening up.

Even someone like Grealish, not a big name, but young, talented, fresh and hungry, would have pushed our existing midfield players and freshened up the squad.

We need to strengthen in January.

 

[Kiedis]

Don't think it's really disappeared, just the triggers have been adjusted. We're just doing it in low risk/high reward situations rather than all the time. Probably wise to preserve the squad and I think we'll adjust more and more back the further we get in the new year. But it does make us look a bit bland out of possession sometimes and it certainly means we have to play against a deep defence in good positions a lot more.

Agree with this. We generally don't seem to press to win the ball high up the pitch, it's more to force a rushed long ball which is generally easy to defend against. We often tend to press higher up the pitch than Liverpool, who are more inclined to try and win the ball around 40 meters from goal and have space to counter attack in.

 

[coys200]

It’s your imagination saw some stats the other day and we were 3rd.

 

[coys200]

 

[Locotoro]

That can't be accurate can it??

Thats just confused me completely.

 

[Shadydan]

People who say we don't press anymore just don't pay attention and are falling for the perpetuated myth. We still press but we do it sporadically and we do tend to do it against certain teams. Just because we don't relentlessly hunt/chase the ball every time doesn't mean we've totally stopped. We are still pressing but we do it at trigger moments. For example when a player takes a bad touch, when they turn their back towards their goal etc...

We've dropped our intensity from previous seasons though, the 2016/17 season where we were at our best was a result of players being fitter/sharper/faster. I personally think Poch is managing the players fitness levels throughout the season and you will probably see a return of something resembling higher intensity later on this season and against big teams.

More often than not teams that constantly press all season get found out which is why Chelsea wont maintain their current levels, Liverpool used to constantly press all the time but they've altered their style, they were burnt out towards the end of 2016/17.

So yeah it hasn't disappeared, we just don't play at that same intensity when we were at peak but we are still one of the highest pressers in the league.