Spurs Youth - 2019/20

[GetSpurredOn]

Burnett doesn’t get much love on here. If the team is not delivering results or players to the First team despite the influx of talent from previous years, is he partly responsible. When these players that get ‘Poch Zoned’ are coming back to U23’s, why are they not dominating? Why is Burnett not building teams around them. The development aspect seems lost, and it’s just a tick box team.
McDermott was rated previously, but the academy and development is his remit, and it’s fallen backwards
I’d like to see any change at the top flood through to this level. Get the first teams and development/academy teams working more synchronised. The club have invested vast sums of money building training facilities to supposedly create a production line to the first team, but that pathway currently appears broken.
U18’s appear to do better, but U23’s seem to regularly struggle with Premier League 2. So if we have no depth to call on behind the senior team, then it’s going to be more scouring the transfer market to refresh the team, and that’s not really always been a success has it of late.
It’s a decent point that’s made about Sherwood, love him or hate him, at least we got semi meaningful loans for players, and they did actually go out on loan. How much more developed could Walker-Peters be now had he had regular competitive football for the last 12-18 months. Chelsea sent the likes of Abraham, Loftus-Cheek, Tomori and Mount out and they are now seeing the benefit.

 

[IGSpur]

Yeah I think KWP needs a move. At this current stage I wouldn't put him any better than the likes of Fredericks over at West Ham. Technically ok but a bit naive defensively. I think he is a Premier League defender, just probably not one at the very top of the league. Now quite why he is only this good and not miles better we will never know however there are a number of young defenders at all clubs that fail to make the grade when it comes to top level football.

- Mason Holgate, Jonjoe Kenny, Martin Kelly, Jon Flanagan, Steven Caulker, Michael Mancienne, Jay Dasilva, Ben Gibson, Calum Chambers, Matt Targett, Liam Moore, Dominic Iorfa etc etc.

A lot, if not all, the players above were very highly rated & none of them have really pushed on & become the players their potential showed to begin with.

The only real elite youth player in here imo is Jay DaSilva who, coming from Chelsea was going to always face an uphill task of getting into the first eleven. KWP had that sort of potential but has been mismanaged.

So basically it goes on cycles, just because Chelsea players are younger it means that they are now massively better than us. Up till these players Chelsea were terrible at bringing through youth but because he has incorporated 2 / 3 players they are now the pinnacle?

A lot gets spoken about Chelsea but nothing about Utd who have far more club trained talent plying their trade in the premier league. I just think something is a bit off.

Also, to respond to your post exactly, ours has come from Kane and Winks mostly, then KWP and Skipp in small patterns.

Chelsea’s has come from Abraham and Mount mostly, with Tomori some and James a few mins. So actually not that different to us, but they are better than us because those players are a couple of years younger? Unfair criticism I think.

It's not really cycles, it's purely down to opportunity and maangement and how much trust, risk or emphaiss they want to place on academy players.

I can't be arsed to look at stats but Chelsea wom 6-7 FAYCs in a row and 3 UYLs. What's happening now isn't just a golden era, they've literally had top quality players every single year. The difference this year is a manager that wants to play them. Before when it was Mourinho or whoever these same kids wouldn't get chances, like Palmer, Colkett, Boga, Musonda, Aina and DaSilva. But teh standard logic was that clearly these age groups weren't producing players. If Lampard wasn't there who also managed Mount and Tomori last year do you think as many academy players would be getting chances now? Highly unlikely. Cheslea aren't doign anyhting differently other than finally creating a pathway to the first team. The reason fans thought their academy wasn't producing is because you had managers afrad to give them a chance.

Chelsea are the pinnacle of academy football they have more talent than us and have done for the last 6/7 years the difference is they didn't get a chance whereas 5 years ago we gave some of ours a chance and therefore people assumed we had a better academy. You can have the greatest academy in the world but it's upto the manager to play them. And if they waste them people will criticise the players and not the managers. I've always said that we could bring through one player a year. Chelsea aren't doing anything in cycles they are literally doing that. Very simple. They haven't all just coincidentally become ready for first team football at the same time, they just have a manager in place who trusts them.

96 - RLC, Christensen
97 - Abraham, Tomori
98 - James
99 - Mount
00 - CHO

Essentially in conclusion, Chelsea have a better academy than us, the only thing we could claim is we gave our academy players a chance over Chelsea's. Well we only have Winks. I'm confident that at the end of this season, that James (the player I believe will have the least minutes out of those above) will play more football than Skipp and KWP combined this season. So we either praise Chelsea/Lampard or have to accept the criticism that we are doing badly in this area as they currently sit above us in the league and performing better in the CL, so I don't want to hear about pressure anymore or not being able to integrate in the CL.

 

[beats1]

I mentioned it in the transfer thread but Liverpool have a dedicated loan guy like we used to with sherwood.

We need a director of football to put these people in place. It’s just a mess behind the scenes with no defined roles. We know levy is a fan of the director of football model but Poch doesn’t like it. Levy needs to pull rank here and sort it out.

Liverpool academy run by our own alex inglethorpe

 

[IGSpur]

To echo what @edson there is a lot of, in my opinion, misplaced negativity about the academy in here, as though it isn't doing it's job. People are looking over at Arsenal and Chelsea and are starting to suddenly get envy and place the blame at our academy, when the players and staff in the actual 'academy' are doing everything right and haven't really let up. Where we are suffering is having a manager or system that doesn't allow our players to develop post 19 so other clubs take over our players, and then people want to criticise the academy, when the academy isn't resposnbile for the development at that point. Whoever controls the loans and first team integration is responsible for the development and where we are going wrong. The only place we are suffering at the moment, which is the effect of not giving or developing our best talents, is we are now starting to lose or unable to recruit at u14/u15 level which means we lack depth in some age groups.

An example of what I mean. England's golden age group are the 00s. We got to the semis of the Euros at u17s and then won the World Cup. In that age group alone, we had 5 different call ups. That age group and therefore our age group is one of the best England has ever produced. So at the age of 17/18, that age group, our academy had as much talent as City and Chelsea and more than Arsenal. Let's look at the players from there.

TOB - Arguably the biggest talent from that age group at age 16/17. One of the biggest talents in the England team unanimously agreed between a lot of youth watchers who know English youth football. All were really looking forward to him coming through, including myself, as potentially being the saviour of England's future midfield. A lot cited his his injury as one of the reasons we didn't win the Euros and thought he was the best or most important player in the 2 tournaments which included, CHO, Foden and Sancho. Essentially taken under Poch's wing, and become a shell of the player he was. No loans, hardly any games, nothing. To the point he ended up being a bench player for the u23s. How? He was eventually taken over by

Skipp - Another massive talent from that year group. Only pipped by TOB and one other, who I'll mention next. The fact he was probably (slightly)less talented or eye-catching and more industrious, meant he was allowed to play youth football while the player above wasn't. He continued to develop and look the part eventually taking over TOB, and getting sparse minutes in the first team. He became the next big thing, which is probably the worse thing that could have happened to him, as there's a strong possibility we won't see him again, and by the end of next season, he will become the next player who 'isn't good enough' or 'Can only have himself to blame'. He was only slightly behind-

Kirby - Another regular in that age group. Talented goal scoring and creative CM/CAM. We lost him as he wanted to join Chelsea, which would have been a great decision, but the dodgy way the deal worked means he ended up a Palace; and as almost happened AWB, will likely struggle to make an appearance for them. Long story short he wanted to leave probably for money and development opportunities that he wouldn't get here. Along with TOB, they were rated as the two best players a former Chelsea and Spurs youth coach has EVER worked with. Yes the same coach that would've worked with CHO, Mount, and these Chelsea boys everyone is now saying are way better than anything we've produced.

Eyoma - Our final regular for that age group. Excellent on the ball bringing it out from the back. Was one of the main CBs along with Guehi and Panzo.Cheslsea players who are getting partial chances at their respective clubs. Eyoma is a real quality CB who was a mainstay in that team winning competitions, who hasn't developed at all. No loans, no nothing.

Griffiths - Another player called up to that age group, who would have been fighting it out with Brewster, Loader, CHO (who was a striker intially), Nmecha, plus Samuels and Soule (who I think both suffered injuries). Whilst not the most naturally gifted bagged goals and earned a call-up to that age group. He left for more opportunities.

BLF - Played quite a few games across for that year group across different age groups, primarily at fullback. Any player getting called up to that age group is a talent and everyone was high off him after seeing how excellent he was at CB. Another who isn't being developed.

Hinds - Called up to a tournament but missed out due to injuries, which prevented him getting his chance again. Yes called up ahead of Aarons, Bogle and Lamptey (another quality Chelsea RB). Anyone who has seen Hinds will know he is a proper ball player. Again no pathway for any sort of development.

What more can our academy do when it comes to producing players, and then people will say we're not doing a job when compared to other clubs. I can't be arsed to go through the 99s with a write up, but we had Bennetts, Shashoua, Brown, Dinzeyi and Tanganga playing for England in the same age group that had Mount, Willock, Nketiah and Nelson. Yet we look over at these clubs and wonder why we can't match their talent. Mount and Nelson were out on good loans while the other two were getting Carling Cup minutes. 3 of ours have now left the club, just to find some sort of game time and one organised a personal loan just to get some sort of football. I think Tanganga was the biggest talent and he dropped behind Dinzeyi in our manager's eye only to pop up this preseason, where he unfortunately played so well he missed an opportunity to get himself a loan or some development. But of course it's all their fault that they haven't developed.

I'm not really going to go in-depth about Edwards, Onomah and KWP, some of the biggest talents we've produced. When people are comparing how well our academy is doing with other clubs, we're generally talking about talent being produced between the ages of 19-23. All of the players I have mentioned fit within this age group. When people say we aren't producing the talent, we have had the top 5 most features across England's two most talented age groups. None of them can get into the first team or no loans, but still see it as a fault with the players, and the 'academy'. Really? If ours suddenly turned crap, why do you think that is. Did they all develop a collective bad attitude and give up, while the overpaid, spoilt Chelsea stars continued to work, or is it just an opportunity issue? I'm sure we all know the sensible answer whether we choose to accept it or not.

Moving forward as edson has said, there is still loads of talent in the academy. The only reason I'm not as high about it as much anymore or go on about it, as it's just a bit pointless. What does anyone gain from writing endless reviews and waxing lyrical about players, to see nothing happen. There is still so much talent, definitely enough to bring one through per season, but , it's all been sucked out. I stress we still have top top players, Our u18s last year put in some of the best displays I've ever seen so noone can tell me the talent isn't there. We continue to lose players, like Madueke who is looking good at PSV and we still have talent below despite Forson leaving (who played for United in the UYL). As Mathurin, Scarlett, Hackett, BBW and others I've gone about are seriously talented players as his Nile John and others, so don't get it into your head, that the academy is failing, and even below them there is more talent bubbling. But nothing will change if we don't change what we're doing at the business end. No good putting all this effort in, only to slowly drain their confidence and ability when they're older. What has happened to KWP is one of the saddest things I've seen at this club, with the amount of trust and faith he's put in the club. So many England youth fans were looking forward to seeing what he'd become, but he never even got the chance.

In essence this is meant to be a positive post to say the club are still doing an incredible job at academy level. It's just like when Chelsea won all those cups, and didn't bring through players so everyone assumes they're crap. Just with less depth. But an academy is only as good as the chances they get, and while this is a positive post as usually it will be a tinged with the same ole same ole that's been going on for the last 5 years. So don't be jealous of Arsenal and Chelsea, taking into account how age groups can change, we are still producing a similar level of talent. Just ask yourself what the difference is between what they do with their players 18+ and what we do, to find the reason why everyone is so down.

EDIT - I wrote this post really quickly and have since read it back, and it doesn't read well at all. Hopefully if you come across it in the future it makes sense

 

[ljinko888]

The things that helped us move on from a Europa League club to Champions League club essentially got shelved the moment it happened. We stopped giving youth a chance without the Thursday night games to experiment in and we stopped scouring the lower leagues for talent. The overnight mentality change that if you don't improve what we have on day one we might as well not bother was a disaster in the making. In this current policy Kane wouldn't come through if he was coming up as a kid now and if Dele was at MK Dons now aged 18 we'd let him go to Leicester or Bournemouth and after two years he's priced out of our range.

 

[spursfan77]

Liverpool academy run by our own alex inglethorpe

And their director of football now was poached by commolli when he was at Liverpool.

 

[spursfan77]

To echo what @edson there is a lot of, in my opinion, misplaced negativity about the academy in here, as though it isn't doing it's job. People are looking over at Arsenal and Chelsea and are starting to suddenly get envy and place the blame at our academy, when the players and staff in the actual 'academy' are doing everything right and haven't really let up. Where we are suffering is having a manager or system that doesn't allow our players to develop post 19 so other clubs take over our players, and then people want to criticise the academy, when the academy isn't resposnbile for the development at that point. Whoever controls the loans and first team integration is responsible for the development and where we are going wrong. The only place we are suffering at the moment is the effect of not giving or developing our best talents, as we are now starting to lose or unable to recruit at u14/u15 level which means we lack depth in some age groups.

An example. England's golden age group the 00s. We got to the semis of the Euros at u17s and then won the World Cup. In that age group alone, we had 5 different call ups. That age group and therefore our age group is one of the best England has ever produced. So at the age of 17/18 that age group we had as much talent as City and Chelsea and more than Arsenal. Let's look at the playesr from that age group.

TOB - Arguably the biggest talent from that age group 16/17. One of the biggest talent sin the England team and a lot of youth watchers who know English youth football were really looking forward to him coming through including myself. A lot cited his his injury as one of the reasons we didn't win the Euros and thought he was the best or most important players in the 2 tournaments which included, CHO, Foden and Sancho. Essentially taken under Poch's wing, and become a shell of the player he was. No loans, hardly any games, nothing. To the point he ended up being a bench player for the u23s. How? He was eventually taken over by

Skipp - Another massive talent from that year group. Only pipped by TOB and one other, who I'll mention next. The fact he was probably (slightly)less talented or eye-catching and more industrious, meant he was allowed to play youth football while the player above wasn't. He contiued to develop and look the part eventually taking over TOB, and getting sparse minutes in the first team. He became the next big thing, which is probably the worse thing that could have happened to him, as there's a strong possibility we won't see him again, and by the end of next season, he will become the next player who 'isn't good enough'. Can only have himself to blame. He was only slightly behind

Kirby - Another regular in that age group. We lost him as he wanted to join Chelsea, which would have been a great decision, but the dodgy way the deal worked means he ended up a Palace and as almost happened AWB, will likely struggle to make an appearance for them. Long story short he wanted to leave probably for money and development opportunities that he wouldn't get here. Along with TOB rated as 2 of the best players a former Chelsea and Spurs youth coach has every worked with. Yes the same coach that would've worked with CHO, Mount, and these Chelsea boys everyone is now saying are way better than anything we've produced.

Eyoma - Our final regular for that age group. Excellent on the ball brining it out from the back. Was one of the main CBs along with Guehi (and Panzo) other Cheslsea players who I forgot are getting partial chances at their respective clubs. Eyoma a real quality CB who was a mainstay in that team winning compeititons, who hasn't developed. No loans, no nothing.

Griffiths - Another player called up to that age group, who woudl have been fighting with Brewster, Loader, CHO (who was a striker intially), Nmecha, plus Samuels and Soule (who I think both suffered injuries). Whilst not the most naturally gifted bagged goals and earned a callup to that age group. Left for more opportunities.

BLF - Played quite a few games across different age groups at fullback. Any player getting called up to that age group us talent and eveyrone was high off him seeing how excellent is was at CB. Another who isn't being developed.

Hinds - Called up to a tournament but missed out due to injuries, whcih prevented him getting his chance again. Yes called up ahead of Aarons, Bogle and Lamptey (another quality Chelsea RB). Anyone who has seen Hinds will know he is a proper ball player. Again no pathway for any sort of development.

What more can our academy do when it comes to producing players, and then people will say we're not doing a job when compared to other clubs. I can't be arsed to go and do the 99s with a write up, but we had Bennetts, Shashoua, Brown, Dinzeyi, Tanganga playing for England in the same age group that had Mount, Willock, Nketiah and Nelson. We look over at these clubs and wonder why we can't match their talent. Mount and Nelson were out on good loans while the other two were getting Carling Cup minutes. 3 of ours have now left the club, just to find some sort of game time. One organised a personal loan. I think Tanganga was the biggest talent and he dropped behind Dinzeyi in our manager's eye only to pop up this preseason, where he unfortunately played so well he missed an opportunity to get himself a loan or some development. But of course it's all their fault that they haven't developed.

I'm not really going to go in-depth about Edwards, Onomah and KWP, some of the biggest talents we've produced. When people are comparing how well our academy is doing with other clubs, we're talking between the ages of 19-23. Those are the age groups I've mentioned. When people say we aren't producing the talent, between the ages you'd expect the players to start playing, arguably England's best year groups, we have had the top 5 most features, and yet everyone can see we can't get any of them into the first team, but still see it as a fault with the players, and the 'academy'. Really? If ours suddenly turned crap, why do you think that is. Did they all develop a collective bad attitude and give up, while the overpaid, spoilt Chelsea stars continued to work, or is it just an opportunity issue? I'm sure we all know the sensible answer whether we choose to accept it or not.

Moving forward as edson has said, there is still loads of talent in the academy. The only reason I'm not as high about it as much anymore or go on about it, as it's just a bit pointless. What does anyone gain from writing endless reviews waxing lyrical about players, to see nothing happen. There is still so much talent, definitely enough to bring one through per season, but , it's all been sucked out. I stress we still have top top players, Our u18s last year put in some of the best displays I've ever seen so noone can tell me the talent isn't there. We continue to lose players, like Madueke who is looking good at PSV and we still have talent below despite Forson leaving (who played for United in the UYL). As Mathurin, Scarlett, Hackett, BBW and others I've gone about are seriously talented players as his Nile John and others, so don't get it into your head, that the academy is failing, and even below them there is more talent bubbling. But nothing will change if we don't change what we're doing at the business end. No good putting all this effort in, only to slowly drain their confidence and ability when they're older. What has happened to KWP is one of the saddest things I've seen at this club, with the amount of trust and faith he's put in the club. So many England youth fans were looking forward to seeing what he'd become, but he never even got the chance.

In essence this is meant to be a positive post to say the club are still doing an incredible job at academy level. It's just like when Chelsea won all those cups, and didn't bring through players so everyone assumes they're crap. Just with less depth. But an academy is only as good as the chances they get, and while this is a positive post as usually it will be a tinged with the same ole same ole that's been going on for the last 5 years. So don't be jealous of Arsenal and Chelsea, taking into account how age groups can change, we are still producing a similar level of talent. Just ask yourself what the difference is between what they do with their players 18+ and what we do, to find the reason why everyone is so down.

I think most people who have followed the youth threads over the years would agree with your summary. That’s how I remember it historically as well.

We just stopped giving the players chances for numerous reasons. But (and I’ve always been a critic of this) it’s been Poch’s refusal to loan them out that’s been the most stupid of decisions. It’s never made any sense to keep them and not let them play games. Training is no comparison to playing games at whatever level. If we had a proper person (like other clubs do) who sort out loans for players then we would have seen these players prosper. It’s always grated on me because it’s felt like we’ve let the players down with their careers.

People moan that if Mourinho came in he wouldn’t give youth a chance but I bet he’d let them go on loan if not. He’s never stopped that happening at other clubs. Even if he didn’t play them he wouldn’t be stifling their careers like Poch has.

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

I think most people who have followed the youth threads over the years would agree with your summary. That’s how I remember it historically as well.

We just stopped giving the players chances for numerous reasons. But (and I’ve always been a critic of this) it’s been Poch’s refusal to loan them out that’s been the most stupid of decisions. It’s never made any sense to keep them and not let them play games. Training is no comparison to playing games at whatever level. If we had a proper person (like other clubs do) who sort out loans for players then we would have seen these players prosper. It’s always grated on me because it’s felt like we’ve let the players down with their careers.

People moan that if Mourinho came in he wouldn’t give youth a chance but I bet he’d let them go on loan if not. He’s never stopped that happening at other clubs. Even if he didn’t play them he wouldn’t be stifling their careers like Poch has.

Trouble is there is no guarantee of game time see Clark now and Onomah previously. Whilst lower league is ok for 18 maybe it has to be Championship as a minimum. How many of our development players would be taken by a premiership club and played regularly?

 

[edson]

Whatever happened to Tashan Oakley Boothe?

I have been getting very frustrated with TOB of late, he is a player that does not dominate games and fades out of a lot of matches, he got a lot of credit in pre season but for me he was still patchy in all of them games and it is so frustrating because he has talent but he needs to show a lot more determination and Desire to show he wants it.

 

[therhinospeaks]

I have been getting very frustrated with TOB of late, he is a player that does not dominate games and fades out of a lot of matches, he got a lot of credit in pre season but for me he was still patchy in all of them games and it is so frustrating because he has talent but he needs to show a lot more determination and Desire to show he wants it.

Too busy driving around in a Lambo to give a shit. It'll all hit home when he's cleaning the changing rooms at Roots Hall soon.

 

[Blake Griffin]

To echo what @edson there is a lot of, in my opinion, misplaced negativity about the academy in here, as though it isn't doing it's job. People are looking over at Arsenal and Chelsea and are starting to suddenly get envy and place the blame at our academy, when the players and staff in the actual 'academy' are doing everything right and haven't really let up. Where we are suffering is having a manager or system that doesn't allow our players to develop post 19 so other clubs take over our players, and then people want to criticise the academy, when the academy isn't resposnbile for the development at that point. Whoever controls the loans and first team integration is responsible for the development and where we are going wrong. The only place we are suffering at the moment is the effect of not giving or developing our best talents, as we are now starting to lose or unable to recruit at u14/u15 level which means we lack depth in some age groups.

An example. England's golden age group the 00s. We got to the semis of the Euros at u17s and then won the World Cup. In that age group alone, we had 5 different call ups. That age group and therefore our age group is one of the best England has ever produced. So at the age of 17/18 that age group we had as much talent as City and Chelsea and more than Arsenal. Let's look at the playesr from that age group.

TOB - Arguably the biggest talent from that age group 16/17. One of the biggest talent sin the England team and a lot of youth watchers who know English youth football were really looking forward to him coming through including myself. A lot cited his his injury as one of the reasons we didn't win the Euros and thought he was the best or most important players in the 2 tournaments which included, CHO, Foden and Sancho. Essentially taken under Poch's wing, and become a shell of the player he was. No loans, hardly any games, nothing. To the point he ended up being a bench player for the u23s. How? He was eventually taken over by

Skipp - Another massive talent from that year group. Only pipped by TOB and one other, who I'll mention next. The fact he was probably (slightly)less talented or eye-catching and more industrious, meant he was allowed to play youth football while the player above wasn't. He contiued to develop and look the part eventually taking over TOB, and getting sparse minutes in the first team. He became the next big thing, which is probably the worse thing that could have happened to him, as there's a strong possibility we won't see him again, and by the end of next season, he will become the next player who 'isn't good enough'. Can only have himself to blame. He was only slightly behind

Kirby - Another regular in that age group. We lost him as he wanted to join Chelsea, which would have been a great decision, but the dodgy way the deal worked means he ended up a Palace and as almost happened AWB, will likely struggle to make an appearance for them. Long story short he wanted to leave probably for money and development opportunities that he wouldn't get here. Along with TOB rated as 2 of the best players a former Chelsea and Spurs youth coach has every worked with. Yes the same coach that would've worked with CHO, Mount, and these Chelsea boys everyone is now saying are way better than anything we've produced.

Eyoma - Our final regular for that age group. Excellent on the ball brining it out from the back. Was one of the main CBs along with Guehi (and Panzo) other Cheslsea players who I forgot are getting partial chances at their respective clubs. Eyoma a real quality CB who was a mainstay in that team winning compeititons, who hasn't developed. No loans, no nothing.

Griffiths - Another player called up to that age group, who woudl have been fighting with Brewster, Loader, CHO (who was a striker intially), Nmecha, plus Samuels and Soule (who I think both suffered injuries). Whilst not the most naturally gifted bagged goals and earned a callup to that age group. Left for more opportunities.

BLF - Played quite a few games across different age groups at fullback. Any player getting called up to that age group us talent and eveyrone was high off him seeing how excellent is was at CB. Another who isn't being developed.

Hinds - Called up to a tournament but missed out due to injuries, whcih prevented him getting his chance again. Yes called up ahead of Aarons, Bogle and Lamptey (another quality Chelsea RB). Anyone who has seen Hinds will know he is a proper ball player. Again no pathway for any sort of development.

What more can our academy do when it comes to producing players, and then people will say we're not doing a job when compared to other clubs. I can't be arsed to go and do the 99s with a write up, but we had Bennetts, Shashoua, Brown, Dinzeyi, Tanganga playing for England in the same age group that had Mount, Willock, Nketiah and Nelson. We look over at these clubs and wonder why we can't match their talent. Mount and Nelson were out on good loans while the other two were getting Carling Cup minutes. 3 of ours have now left the club, just to find some sort of game time. One organised a personal loan. I think Tanganga was the biggest talent and he dropped behind Dinzeyi in our manager's eye only to pop up this preseason, where he unfortunately played so well he missed an opportunity to get himself a loan or some development. But of course it's all their fault that they haven't developed.

I'm not really going to go in-depth about Edwards, Onomah and KWP, some of the biggest talents we've produced. When people are comparing how well our academy is doing with other clubs, we're talking between the ages of 19-23. Those are the age groups I've mentioned. When people say we aren't producing the talent, between the ages you'd expect the players to start playing, arguably England's best year groups, we have had the top 5 most features, and yet everyone can see we can't get any of them into the first team, but still see it as a fault with the players, and the 'academy'. Really? If ours suddenly turned crap, why do you think that is. Did they all develop a collective bad attitude and give up, while the overpaid, spoilt Chelsea stars continued to work, or is it just an opportunity issue? I'm sure we all know the sensible answer whether we choose to accept it or not.

Moving forward as edson has said, there is still loads of talent in the academy. The only reason I'm not as high about it as much anymore or go on about it, as it's just a bit pointless. What does anyone gain from writing endless reviews waxing lyrical about players, to see nothing happen. There is still so much talent, definitely enough to bring one through per season, but , it's all been sucked out. I stress we still have top top players, Our u18s last year put in some of the best displays I've ever seen so noone can tell me the talent isn't there. We continue to lose players, like Madueke who is looking good at PSV and we still have talent below despite Forson leaving (who played for United in the UYL). As Mathurin, Scarlett, Hackett, BBW and others I've gone about are seriously talented players as his Nile John and others, so don't get it into your head, that the academy is failing, and even below them there is more talent bubbling. But nothing will change if we don't change what we're doing at the business end. No good putting all this effort in, only to slowly drain their confidence and ability when they're older. What has happened to KWP is one of the saddest things I've seen at this club, with the amount of trust and faith he's put in the club. So many England youth fans were looking forward to seeing what he'd become, but he never even got the chance.

In essence this is meant to be a positive post to say the club are still doing an incredible job at academy level. It's just like when Chelsea won all those cups, and didn't bring through players so everyone assumes they're crap. Just with less depth. But an academy is only as good as the chances they get, and while this is a positive post as usually it will be a tinged with the same ole same ole that's been going on for the last 5 years. So don't be jealous of Arsenal and Chelsea, taking into account how age groups can change, we are still producing a similar level of talent. Just ask yourself what the difference is between what they do with their players 18+ and what we do, to find the reason why everyone is so down.

agree with most of what you say and i think even the most ardent of the poch knows best brigade can now see that young players spending their formative years not playing probably isn't best for their development but i do think there are a few issues arising further down the academy as well.

the main one being that we seem to be neglecting the physical aspect compared to other clubs both in the identification phase and the subsequent coaching of talent. clearly we can produce technically gifted players but they're almost always undersized or lacking athletically, you look at the attacking players we've had or have coming through and it's just so difficult for them to make it when they're at such a physical disadvantage. of all the attacking players in the academy currently, who realistically has a chance of making it? you'd probably only really say parrott and maybe bennett - both of which were signed at 15 so whilst technically tottenham academy graduates, they've received the majority of their education elsewhere. roles is the only other one but again, we're basically banking on him physically maturing later on and hopefully being ready by the time he's 22-23.

even our cbs are generally undersized with most just about tipping 6ft on a good day. lyons-foster for example is super smooth with the ball at his feet and an intelligent defender but he's also a total weed, i just can't imagine he'd be this far off physically had he come through chelsea's academy. there's this perception now around our academy that all we produce are safe/tidy midfielders and whilst i don't think that's entirely accurate, i can see why people would think that - and it doesn't help when these are the kind of players poch has the most time for.

you touch on all the england call-ups but you must have noticed the drop off in numbers we've had in that regard lately. go back a couple of years or so and we'd regularly have 2-3 in each age group, i'd always look forward to the international break as it's a good chance to see these players more but now we're only getting 2 or 3 across the entire range of age groups. the last international break I think we had three - skipp who got a few sub minutes and austin a back-up keeper, only maghoma started but if we're being honest he's fortunate to even be getting called up at the moment. you can probably make the case for one or two others but generally the numbers are low currently.

as you say though, a lot of what i've said becomes irrelevant if at the top end of it all you have a manager who believes that the best thing for a youngster's development is to just park them at the training ground years on end but i do think that there are some issues further down as well.

edit: forgot tanganga was called up as well, so 4.

 

[Blake Griffin]

line-up vs red star:

de bie; eyoma, walcott, binks, cirkin; bowden, white; markanday, robson, bennett; parrott

subs: oluwayemi, lusala, john, maghoma, pochettino, whittaker, etete

 

[coys200]

Nice team on paper looking forward to seeing Robson.

 

[agrdavidsfan]

I have been getting very frustrated with TOB of late, he is a player that does not dominate games and fades out of a lot of matches, he got a lot of credit in pre season but for me he was still patchy in all of them games and it is so frustrating because he has talent but he needs to show a lot more determination and Desire to show he wants it.

That’s for that, I know when potter first went to Swansea and then later on Cooper he was one of the players on their list (Potential untapped)

Along with
Eyoma
The kid we sold to Huddersfield
Eze
And a young Southampton lad!

My cousin also played vs tashan and compared him to a young gerrard so have always kept an eye out for him

 

[edson]

Nice team on paper looking forward to seeing Robson.

He is a good player who gets on the end of things and looks a goal threat from midfield.

He is not the strongest and he will stay down when he gets hit but he is very young and I do like him a lot, he is not as affective playing out wide better as a Cam or AM

 

[coys200]

He is a good player who gets on the end of things and looks a goal threat from midfield.

He is not the strongest and he will stay down when he gets hit but he is very young and I do like him a lot, he is not as affective playing out wide better as a Cam or AM

Yeah heard good things about him from someone that’s coached him. Pretty quick as well apparently.

 

[Yiddo100]

3-0 up after 30, parrott scored twice and bennett

 

[Blake Griffin]

parrott looking like he's just found piss in his boots, cheer up lad.

 

[guru]

parrott looking like he's just found piss in his boots, cheer up lad.

I would imagine he feels he is better then this and should be playing first team

 

[Blake Griffin]