Spurs Youth - 2019/20

[coy-spurs1882]

It seems to me since Sherwood went our development of young prospects has gone down the toilet.

When he was there we had an extensive loan system setup, we had a good link with Swindon, who played good football and created a great start for a number of our young players. Sherwood would always change loans midseason if needed.

He would watch the matches and keep a track of all the progress. Now I'm not saying we need him back but who is doing that now at spurs? We are clearly creating the talent but we are failing these youngsters and their progression.

The link between the first team and development squad was non existent under poch. Only with jose have we started again.

Tanganga, cirkin, kwp loan. Hopefully this continues. If they are not playing then loan them out, but choose the right club.

It was mental that we didn't loan players to Leeds when the mentality was similar to what poch wanted. Clarke being loaned out and not playing? Edwards, onomah and kwp? Hopefully Jose sorts this out.

i think tanganga is already considered as first team player and mourinho said he wants to include cirkin and white in next season's first team

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

i think tanganga is already considered as first team player and mourinho said he wants to include cirkin and white in next season's first team

Yes, I mentioned that as a positive thing. As long as they play football consistently and they are not poch style first teamers.

Jose seems to be making an effort with the youth. I do worry about the smaller players though.

 

[Anuth]

Onomah deserves MOTM just for this. lol

 

[mill]

Connor Ogilvie named Player of the Year

Former Spurs man scoops several awards during Gills online Player of the Year presentations.

www.gillinghamfootballclub.com

Good to see him doing well

 

[DJS]

Onomah deserves MOTM just for this. lol

Surely he must have gotten booked for that? ??

 

[C0YS]

Sorry, What I mean is, he can't have been criticised for it as he never played in CAM, not in the PL anyway. I vaguely remember a game against Leicester where he came in off the left and was essentially playing centrally, and he played well, and maybe a game against Wycombe, but I don't remember the criticism of Poch for him playing JO in CAM then. I may be misremembering.

My main point was whenever he was played, all those chances and appearances you said he got to prove himself, were ad hoc minutes, on the wing or striker. That's no chance at all. I just checked transfer market, and in the PL for us he averaged 7mins per match (he could genuinely not have even got a kick in some of those games) over 13 games and 3 seasons, in the FA Cup 37mins per match 8 games and 3 seasons and he played 2 90s in the Carling Cup, one where he scored. In Onomah's whole time with us in every competition he played less minutes than Lamela played in his injury plagued first season with us, when everyone said, that Lamela hadn't had a fair chance and shouldn't be judged. Heck Stambouli played more in the cup games in one season for us than Onomah's whole time and I don't remember one notable performance from him. But people seem to believe Onomah had a fair chance and ample time to judge him with minimal experience compared to them. I don't get that. I'd have thought the expectation on them should be higher than on Onomah but apparently Onomah should've made more of his 'chances' than actual signings.

I'm fairly sure he didn't I remember being there, and I think Lamela was on the RW and Njie on the left but ye him and Njie had great games

EDIT -

I do remember being there. It was a pretty fluid front line, with a lot of interchange, but as the video you yourself posted seems to prove, he spent most of the game on the right. Lamela was sort of playing a free role and finding loads of space and pockets and was, excellent as well, probably the best game I've seen him play for us. Even though Monaco were absolutely awful and already out of the Europa. It could well be that Onomah technically was playing at AM, but I suspect if you looked at heat maps he was playing on the right.

I don't think he ever played as a striker, maybe once. The thing is he could have been given more minutes, but he was given more of a chance then a lot of people who did take it, and this is the point I'm making. It's not fair, but to break into a team you need to take your chance, and not just get sympathy minutes.

Lamela was a big buy, and with a big buy you are likely to see more patience and more hope. Same with Stambouli, these are proven players, Stambouli is a title winner! You can't compare that with a teenager. a teenager which would do exceptionally well to match either of these two players careers. Similarly, how players perform in training is important, probably the most important thing in driving team selection, and this isn't something we can really know. Onomah was very young when he was getting minutes. Like super young. 18 to 20. He went on loan, still young, and didn't really impress. He showed himself to be a decent player, but showed little to suggest he would have improved us, the same is true now.

He is a hit though. He has done very well for himself. Was he given a fair chance? Not really, but he didn't take what he was given, and frankly he wasn't good enough or reliable enough to play regularly out of merit. Do you give someone a chance to 'develop' them or because they actually deserve it. I get that people don't like it when senior pros are out of form, Onomah was never in that position where there really was a gap. KWP, I do understand that argument more, same with Skipp now as well. Put to put Onomah in for the sake of development, when talents like Onomah will never develop into top professional footballers, feels very generous.

The thing is after that performance by Onomah, which was bright more than amazing, he did get more chances. Got over 100 mins against Dortmund, but he was a kid and wasn't that impressive when given a chance. But he seemed to regress from that point. Mismanagement maybe, but that's how it was. I don't think he deserved a run out there, someone like Winks came in much much later in his development, but he impressed pretty darn quickly. And that's the pattern for most youth players in big teams. Rarely, do teams allow a 'bedding in period' of a run of games. It's too much of a gamble, for most likely not a particularly valuable return.

But Onomah has done will

 

[Blake Griffin]

pleased for parrott to get this move, it's at least two years earlier than what poch would have allowed. good to get it done early as well rather than joining a team already settling into the season, i never understood why we kept doing that but then i didn't understand much with regards to our handling of the academy.

 

[EQP]

pleased for parrott to get this move, it's at least two years earlier than what poch would have allowed. good to get it done early as well rather than joining a team already settling into the season, i never understood why we kept doing that but then i didn't understand much with regards to our handling of the academy.

Agreed. Would like us to get loans/transfers for CCV, Roles, Clarke, Amos and Skipp sorted out early as well.

 

[C0YS]

I know this is old, but it is worth a read from Andros Townsend. I just found the article as I was looking though footballers talking about mental health stuff and while the article is old it sheds some light on addiction and mental health.

However, I think it is also exposes a lot about the loan system, and how it can also take a toll on players when it happens too young or without direction. Also loads of things related to player development, and how seemingly small things (injuries, position changes) can have a big effect.

This Is Not A Golden Boy Story | Andros Townsend

"I’m probably the only lad in history to lose £46,000 lying in bed on a Wednesday night in Blackpool." Addiction. Heartbreak. Finding peace at Crystal Palace FC

www.theplayerstribune.com

 

[Insomnia]

I know this is old, but it is worth a read from Andros Townsend. I just found the article as I was looking though footballers talking about mental health stuff and while the article is old it sheds some light on addiction and mental health.

However, I think it is also exposes a lot about the loan system, and how it can also take a toll on players when it happens too young or without direction. Also loads of things related to player development, and how seemingly small things (injuries, position changes) can have a big effect.

This Is Not A Golden Boy Story | Andros Townsend

"I’m probably the only lad in history to lose £46,000 lying in bed on a Wednesday night in Blackpool." Addiction. Heartbreak. Finding peace at Crystal Palace FC

www.theplayerstribune.com

Thanks for the share, it made me cry, I wish him the best, he’s one of us

 

[mill]

Josh Onomah explains why he struggled to make the breakthrough at Spurs - Spurs Web - Tottenham Hotspur Football News

Josh Onomah has admitted that he did not have the mentality required as a young player to make an impact at the highest level. The Spurs academy graduate was very highly thought of in North London and on the back of his impressive cameos for the first-team and his performances for England...

www.spurs-web.com

 

[coyspurs18]

Received an email from the club with a survey today. It looks like they are considering an online service that would air youth matches...might want to take a look if you got it and just hit delete as I was about to. It would be great if we had the ability to watch the youth, especially those of us living abroad.

 

[Montalbano]

Received an email from the club with a survey today. It looks like they are considering an online service that would air youth matches...might want to take a look if you got it and just hit delete as I was about to. It would be great if we had the ability to watch the youth, especially those of us living abroad.

This has been in demand for several years, hope it happens.

As a club that is thought to be so business savvy I’m not sure why they haven’t made a subscription-based “Spurs TV” to broadcast academy matches and other such services when it seems like every other big Premier Leagur club has had one for years.

 

[Tottenhamboy85]

This has been in demand for several years, hope it happens.

As a club that is thought to be so business savvy I’m not sure why they haven’t made a subscription-based “Spurs TV” to broadcast academy matches and other such services when it seems like every other big Premier Leagur club has had one for years.

Should be offered as part of a season ticket / membership.

 

[coyspurs18]

Should be offered as part of a season ticket / membership.

I should have screenshot some of the questions that were listed. One was in regards to how much you’d be willing to pay and there was another about discounting, I believe, if you are a One Hotspur member. An earlier question asked if you were ST holder so there may have been different options based on that selection.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Thanks for the share, it made me cry, I wish him the best, he’s one of us

Townsend was next to us in Madrid queing up to get in to the ring before the ground

 

[IGSpur]

Lamela was a big buy, and with a big buy you are likely to see more patience and more hope. Same with Stambouli, these are proven players, Stambouli is a title winner! You can't compare that with a teenager. a teenager which would do exceptionally well to match either of these two players careers. Similarly, how players perform in training is important, probably the most important thing in driving team selection, and this isn't something we can really know. Onomah was very young when he was getting minutes. Like super young. 18 to 20. He went on loan, still young, and didn't really impress. He showed himself to be a decent player, but showed little to suggest he would have improved us, the same is true now.

He is a hit though. He has done very well for himself. Was he given a fair chance? Not really, but he didn't take what he was given, and frankly he wasn't good enough or reliable enough to play regularly out of merit. Do you give someone a chance to 'develop' them or because they actually deserve it. I get that people don't like it when senior pros are out of form, Onomah was never in that position where there really was a gap. KWP, I do understand that argument more, same with Skipp now as well. Put to put Onomah in for the sake of development, when talents like Onomah will never develop into top professional footballers, feels very generous.

I agree with this. I was saying this for ages, that signings will be given more chances but people seemed convinced that that wasn't the case and it was purely objective.

I personally would give a player a chance to develop them rather than 'deserving' it, because I wouldn't expect an 17/18/19 yo with barely any appearances to put in a performance that would warrant being deserving. If you have an academy and coaches you're judgement of whether they deserve to be developed should have been made over the previous 5 years of development, and not whether they've immediately managed to make an impact in 4 appearances, that 30m+ signing haven't even made themselves.

I think the issue is that clearly people expect way too much from academy graduates, moreso than any signing that is made. If I'm a coach and have an incredible talent in our ranks like a striker and we expect them to be world class, I wouldn't write them off, if they didn't manage to score in their first 6 appearances with us. That's such a short term way of thinking.

As it then leads us to selling said player for miniscule money, and signing an average player for 25/30m for them to not do much, while the player you sold ends up being valued that amount anyway.

I think the mentality that an academy graduate should have staked their claim in very minimal appearances is sadly too common and removes the notion that these are humans that aren't all going to behave in the same way.

I know some Chelsea fans will likely have written CHO off now, but I still think he needs some time to prove himself there and Chelsea have got the right idea, giving him a genuine squad place to keep trying.

Someone posted this on twitter, from Parker in 2017 which seems apt now

"My problem is clubs bringing in players who block pathways but then don’t play. The superstars are fine because we all learn from them. The problem is average players who then block that position from a young player."

That's the issue giving average players numerous chances because of what they have previously done, and not what they're doing. i.e. their potential, but the same isn't extended for the academy players.

 

[IGSpur]

Found out Jez Davies is a bit of a utility player, so can play FB and CM. He's not the person I thought I had been watching and I think he's a fairly new acquisition from Leyton Orient.

I also think it will be interesting to see how the u16s develop next year, as it's another great age group, and I wonder how many might get fast tracked. They never really do until the end of the season but they're are definitely a few in there who could make some appearances.

 

[Anuth]

Found out Jez Davies is a bit of a utility player, so can play FB and CM. He's not the person I thought I had been watching and I think he's a fairly new acquisition from Leyton Orient.

I also think it will be interesting to see how the u16s develop next year, as it's another great age group, and I wonder how many might get fast tracked. They never really do until the end of the season but they're are definitely a few in there who could make some appearances.

IIRC Lilywhite_rose said that we already gave 3 years scholarship to Alfie Dorrington (CB) and Luca Gunter (GK). So we could expect them to be involved this season.

 

[IGSpur]

IIRC Lilywhite_rose said that we already gave 3 years scholarship to Alfie Dorrington (CB) and Luca Gunter (GK). So we could expect them to be involved this season.

Ye possibly. This 04/05 age group we have are definitely worth keeping an eye on.

I've been going on about the 04s for ages but now I think of it, the 05s at this moment have a lot of talent in them, it depends how they develop over the next year, as of course some can fall off.

They have a really good spine, and then lot's of little tricky players dotted around in attack etc.

I can really see Dorrington getting chances though. As our CB options next season aren't exceptional but they're good. Can definitely see Dorrington getting a chance or two or even BBW if they decode on his positioning. Not sure about Gunter; as usual we have a ton of keepers not sure where he'll get his chance