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Sergio Ramos

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
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Ronaldo is obscenely underrated because of a poor 6 months in late 2019. All the kids on Twitter love to jump on a bandwagon and make out he’s finished - the bloke got 41 goals in 39 games for Juventus in 2020. Maybe you don’t like him, but let’s not pretend he’s not a phenomenal player. The same applies to Ramos. Clearly as all-round players both have dipped from their prime due to age, but they’re both still incredible players. If there was even a chance of Spurs getting Ramos (which is very unlikely) we should do all we can to make it happen.
He's not Juve's best player. He just isn't right now. He was a great player and still is. I have no idea what people say on twitter he is a phenomenal player, and was the second-best player in the world for the last 10-15 years. However, he isn't the same player he was for Real Madrid. It's not about favouritism to say that. Dybala won the series A award last season, on merit, and Ronaldo is still effective, and sometimes game-changing but not an indispensable player.

Both Messi and Ronaldo often win awards out of hype and not always because they were actually the best players that year. And no offence to the goal stat, but 16 penalties combined in series A this season and the last do inflate the figures somewhat, and frankly, Ronaldo's game these days is all about scoring goals, and he's very good at it. In many ways he is more like a perfect mechanical football being than a human. This is nothing about not liking him, I don't personally know him, I honestly don't care about the media crap narratives about footballers. It's just I don't think he is a top 3 player, and for that matter, I think that applies to Messi too. Both are still top 10, both are also the best players of their generation.

Ramos is a different thing entirely. Ramos' form has been a regular subject of conversation in Spain, for what it's worth when the criticism does come at him he tends to go on a good run of form. But, look, he even splits opinion in Madrid these days. If you go onto the Spanish Madrid forums most accept that if he doesn't renew so be it. He's still a good player, but if we were to get him (we wont) he won't be the player some might think we'd be getting.

He still would be decent, though his error proneness and hot-headedness (off the field as well as on it) might land him in a spot of bother, it wouldn't be the first time Mourinho has dropped him for these things (which is part of the reason it won't happen, if inside sources are true Ramos campaigned for the dismissal of Mourinho) but I think his mentality, which is phenomenal, and ability could be useful. I'm not against the signing at all, though I don't believe it will happen.

But this isn't 2012 Ramos, it's not even close, and while he remains a very good player, with his age, he is likely to decline, quite rapidly, sooner rather than later, the PL, in particular, isn't a particularly forgiving league for that (In Spain he's marking players like soldado and Iago Aspas, instead of the likes of Antonio) I could see it go south very quickly. What I would think more likely, however, is something like Thiago Silva, a much more reliable player than Ramos, though maybe lacking some of Ramos' mentality, and only a year older and the jury is still out, but he has had a few poor games but also been good at moments. What is clear though is that this Thiago Silva is a shadow of his former self and you can tell that he's not going to be able to be at that level for too much longer.
 

The Opinionated Lurker

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2019
720
2,554
He's not Juve's best player. He just isn't right now. He was a great player and still is. I have no idea what people say on twitter he is a phenomenal player, and was the second-best player in the world for the last 10-15 years. However, he isn't the same player he was for Real Madrid. It's not about favouritism to say that. Dybala won the series A award last season, on merit, and Ronaldo is still effective, and sometimes game-changing but not an indispensable player.

Both Messi and Ronaldo often win awards out of hype and not always because they were actually the best players that year. And no offence to the goal stat, but 16 penalties combined in series A this season and the last do inflate the figures somewhat, and frankly, Ronaldo's game these days is all about scoring goals, and he's very good at it. In many ways he is more like a perfect mechanical football being than a human. This is nothing about not liking him, I don't personally know him, I honestly don't care about the media crap narratives about footballers. It's just I don't think he is a top 3 player, and for that matter, I think that applies to Messi too. Both are still top 10, both are also the best players of their generation.

Ramos is a different thing entirely. Ramos' form has been a regular subject of conversation in Spain, for what it's worth when the criticism does come at him he tends to go on a good run of form. But, look, he even splits opinion in Madrid these days. If you go onto the Spanish Madrid forums most accept that if he doesn't renew so be it. He's still a good player, but if we were to get him (we wont) he won't be the player some might think we'd be getting.

He still would be decent, though his error proneness and hot-headedness (off the field as well as on it) might land him in a spot of bother, it wouldn't be the first time Mourinho has dropped him for these things (which is part of the reason it won't happen, if inside sources are true Ramos campaigned for the dismissal of Mourinho) but I think his mentality, which is phenomenal, and ability could be useful. I'm not against the signing at all, though I don't believe it will happen.

But this isn't 2012 Ramos, it's not even close, and while he remains a very good player, with his age, he is likely to decline, quite rapidly, sooner rather than later, the PL, in particular, isn't a particularly forgiving league for that (In Spain he's marking players like soldado and Iago Aspas, instead of the likes of Antonio) I could see it go south very quickly. What I would think more likely, however, is something like Thiago Silva, a much more reliable player than Ramos, though maybe lacking some of Ramos' mentality, and only a year older and the jury is still out, but he has had a few poor games but also been good at moments. What is clear though is that this Thiago Silva is a shadow of his former self and you can tell that he's not going to be able to be at that level for too much longer.
???? I know this is the Ramos thread but wow. I know that Messi and Ronaldo aren’t at their primes anymore but to call them at best top 10 these days is laughable. They’re still streets ahead of the rest. Who’s your top 2 out of interest? Whoever it is probably doesn’t even personally think they’re better than Messi or Ronaldo.
 
Last edited:

alexis

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,883
3,565
Apparently he has been offered and rejected 12 million euro a year, which he rejected. (210k a week in GBP)

He also said in 2019 that he would play for real Madrid for free.....

PSG are supposedly rumoured. He will sign a contract extension with real. No way they lose Ramos.
And favourable tax laws on that wage which you don’t get in the uk
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,788
13,837
???? I know this is the Ramos thread but wow. I know that Messi and Ronaldo aren’t at their primes anymore but to call them at best top 10 these days is laughable. They’re still streets ahead of the rest. Who’s your top 2 out of interest? Whoever it is probably doesn’t even personally think they’re better than Messi or Ronaldo.
I didn't call them at best top 10. They are clearly top 10. But they are not clearly top 3, like the hype machine means that they are always listed in those position even when there are better players. Like Ribery, Robben and Sneijder probably all deserved Ballon D'ors but the competition just became Messi v Ronaldo, even if there were better players in that calendar year. According to Juventus fans last year Dybala was better than Ronaldo, and according to serie A players that was also the case, the players in Serie A voted Dybala not Ronaldo.

They wouldn't be in my top 3. Lewandowski is first. Then I'd probably say Kimmich and maybe Mbabbe (messi would be 4th I think, though a very poor end to 2020 so maybe 5th, Ronaldo probably 6th or 7th for what it's worth, that's opinion though), next year it's likely to be completely different, depending on the performances. My point is this, the assumption is they are the best every year, and it will take years before people adjust to the fact it's not that clear anymore. Anyway, my only point to mention that was I don't vendetta against Ronaldo not really about much else.

But I would say the fact for you the idea is laughable, is exactly what I'm trying to show. That hype lasts way longer than what is actually being shown on the field. Once you build a narrative around a player, good or bad, it takes a long time for public opinion to turn around that.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,788
13,837
Apparently he has been offered and rejected 12 million euro a year, which he rejected. (210k a week in GBP)

He also said in 2019 that he would play for real Madrid for free.....

PSG are supposedly rumoured. He will sign a contract extension with real. No way they lose Ramos.
The problem is less the reduction in income, but as with many older players the refusal to sign him on a long contract. I suspect he will stay and is trying to negotiate it. From what I see in Real Madrid forums they see it as a power play by Ramos, but the vast majority believe Real Madrid should stick to their guns and he'll agree to the deal offered, and if not, so be it.

And favourable tax laws on that wage which you don’t get in the uk

What favourable tax laws? I mean Ramos lives within the boundary of Madrid, so at least he avoids the Spanish wealth tax. But even so, Tax for high earners in Spain is pretty high, and I don't think there is much difference between UK and Spain (though the highest tax bracket comes in a bit earlier). Maybe there are clever ways to avoid it, but Spanish footballers have been in court quite a lot the last few years.
 

alexis

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,883
3,565
I didn't call them at best top 10. They are clearly top 10. But they are not clearly top 3, like the hype machine means that they are always listed in those position even when there are better players. Like Ribery, Robben and Sneijder probably all deserved Ballon D'ors but the competition just became Messi v Ronaldo, even if there were better players in that calendar year. According to Juventus fans last year Dybala was better than Ronaldo, and according to serie A players that was also the case, the players in Serie A voted Dybala not Ronaldo.

They wouldn't be in my top 3. Lewandowski is first. Then I'd probably say Kimmich and maybe Mbabbe (messi would be 4th I think, though a very poor end to 2020 so maybe 5th, Ronaldo probably 6th or 7th for what it's worth, that's opinion though), next year it's likely to be completely different, depending on the performances. My point is this, the assumption is they are the best every year, and it will take years before people adjust to the fact it's not that clear anymore. Anyway, my only point to mention that was I don't vendetta against Ronaldo not really about much else.

But I would say the fact for you the idea is laughable, is exactly what I'm trying to show. That hype lasts way longer than what is actually being shown on the field. Once you build a narrative around a player, good or bad, it takes a long time for public opinion to turn around that.
Good response
 

alexis

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
1,883
3,565
The problem is less the reduction in income, but as with many older players the refusal to sign him on a long contract. I suspect he will stay and is trying to negotiate it. From what I see in Real Madrid forums they see it as a power play by Ramos, but the vast majority believe Real Madrid should stick to their guns and he'll agree to the deal offered, and if not, so be it.



What favourable tax laws? I mean Ramos lives within the boundary of Madrid, so at least he avoids the Spanish wealth tax. But even so, Tax for high earners in Spain is pretty high, and I don't think there is much difference between UK and Spain (though the highest tax bracket comes in a bit earlier). Maybe there are clever ways to avoid it, but Spanish footballers have been in court quite a lot the last few years.
Apologies you are correct it’s only international players that benefit https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....19/explained-la-liga-stars-and-tax-issues/amp
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,788
13,837
Apologies you are correct it’s only international players that benefit https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....19/explained-la-liga-stars-and-tax-issues/amp
Sorry, I've only just come back from living in spain so I'm a bit sensitive to it. For what it's worth, you and I could claim the Beckham law, but, ironically, footballers are not allowed to anymore. Partly because it's a crazy amount of money not being paid to a country with substantial economic issues (even before covid).

Anyway, Ramos is being linked to a million clubs every day now. It seems a pretty transparent negotiation process, and Madrid atm seem very happy to call his bluff. The only way Sergio 'I'd play for Madrid for free, but demand a higher wage than what I am now as an ageing player during a pandemic in a club with quite public economic problems predating that and not having the good judgement to see what a PR disaster that might be' Ramos is leaving is if he has too much pride to back down.
 

Oscar22

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2004
17,004
15,937
Few links in the papers to his team mate Eder Militao... might be more likely?
 

Strikeb4ck

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2010
4,495
9,434
He's not actually a good defender. Leader, captain, goal-scoring CB? Yes, amazing, up there with the very best ever. But as an actual defender he is unbelievably overrated. Would get exposed in the Prem playing for a non City/Lpool team.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
42,303
72,013
He's not actually a good defender. Leader, captain, goal-scoring CB? Yes, amazing, up there with the very best ever. But as an actual defender he is unbelievably overrated. Would get exposed in the Prem playing for a non City/Lpool team.
He is also annoyingly good at winning
 

TheTanguy

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2020
4,981
13,354
No point in talking about Sergio Ramos, better focus on realistic targets like Tarkowski for instance in the summer.
 

DiVaio

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2020
4,217
17,581
So was Bale...
Signing someone with a winning mentality/history of winning doesn't really mean anything these days.
There is massive difference at level of performance(also fitness wise) between Ramos and Bale
 
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