Pre-Season 2023/24

[fishhhandaricecake]

After watching the very small sample size of two games in pre season I think we are only CB's short of having a very competitive squad. Yes players could still be upgraded but I don't believe we need Connor Gallagher etc. Just stick what ever we have got on 2 new CB's and we are good to go.

Agree and this shows what a big difference the style of play and coaching can make that’s why we’ve gone from the ‘whole squad is crap and has a bad attitude etc’ under Conte to under Ange we are 2 top CB’s and some continued coaching away from looking like a really decent outfit again.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Ignoring scorelines, and that today’s match was against much much weaker opposition, on the face of it that looked much more of the same. Very attacking approach, overwhelming domination of where the game was played, and enough chances to score a bucketful of goals.

All good then, yeah? Hmmmm. After the first game I was impressed by the level of cohesion and understanding shown already, this game I was less so tbh. Maybe it was because it’s early days, the lesser opposition, training fatigue, whatever, but I don’t think the system looked as good today and it was the possible sticking points that stood out more.

Firstly though – let’s talk about the good things today: Udogie has fitted in great so far, looks comfy getting the ball anywhere on the pitch. Bissouma doing nicely as the single pivot. Maddison had brighter moments today and got on the ball better. Emerson looked really comfy as that tucked in right back. Lo Celso looks our most natural midfielder for those attacking midfielder roles, he just floats about knitting play together around the box. Perisic’s legs (and clinical ability) have gone but he’s still got half a brain and some vision and can take a man on both ways (more on this later…). Solomon didn’t see a huge amount of ball but beat his man inside out every time. Richarlison was busy, put himself about, leads the line and creates space behind him, and was rewarded for his efforts.

That was the good, there are ill fitting pieces to the puzzle though and selections I’d flat out disagree with:

Centre backs – Still needed.

Porro – Just stop it.

Skipp – Trying his best, but hasn’t really got the ability to play in those advanced roles. Needs to be played either in the pivot role or in Emerson’s role, with the game in front of him.

Sarr – Much the same… He’s a likeable kid with some ability and a lot of running and energy and people seem to be raving about him today, but I didn’t see that much effective play with the ball and don’t see that as his best position at all. He needs the game in front of him, deeper in midfield really.

The two starting wingers – probably what I want to talk about the most. I’m seeing problems here already. In this shape (wingers glued to the touchline) and this approach (condensing everything into the last third of the pitch) what is really needed are explosive/agile/nimble players with 1v1 dribbling ability and who ideally can go both ways, left or right. That doesn’t sound like Son or Kulu to me, and we saw teething problems today. One to keep an eye on.

Kane – As I said the other day, IF he is still here he will have to adapt. We don’t need him dropping deep. In this system we have up to half a dozen players already in those areas, the job is to play against the backline, and offer focal point work, through ball runs, and do some poaching. Has been totally lost in both games.



Further reading:

So yes, still see pieces of the puzzle that need filling. Centre back obviously. We need to get both Maddison and Lo Celso in the same midfield at some point and assess it, and I’d be demanding another of that type of player for those 8/10 roles personally they’ll be crucial to how we play. Another wide player with 1vs1 ability is also maybe required, if/when Kane goes I’d probably spend the money here and put Son through the middle to duke it out with Richy.

A squad something like this would leave me content:

Goalkeepers – Vicario, Forster, (#3) from the academy lot.

Centre backs – Romero, Starting left centre back, a solid HG option like Tosin, and an experienced depth option (don’t see point of another younger one, they never play enough and don’t develop eg. Foyth).

Right Backs – Emerson, and in that tucked in role try Skipp there.

Left Backs – Udogie, Davies can back him up for now (plus cover CB or a back three option).

Pivot – Bissouma, Bentancur, (Sarr) for now as injury cover and then maybe loaned out after Xmas.

8/10’s – Maddison, Lo Celso, Signing such as Hatate who knows the system, (Devine) can be an apprentice player drip fed in.

Forwards – Son, Richarlison, Kulusevski, Solomon, New winger signing, and Perisic? maybe as depth or an (academy apprentice) drip feed as the last option.

About 20 senior players, 18 outfielders, who are close in quality and providing genuine competition and ability for playing time, supplemented by three or four younger players.

Anyone not mentioned can be bundled out the door as far as I’m concerned.



/ essay.

Fair play on your big analysis, in terms of cohesion most the players are no where near fully fit and it’s a completely different style of play.

The ‘B Team’ seem to understand it more.

So much to be positive about.

 

[Hotspur88]

Anyone want to be a legend and point me in the direction of the full match please? I haven't got SPURSPLAY.

 

[Flobadob]

I’m a little worried that we only currently have one winger suited to this system (Solomon). You put him in a 1v1 and he’s making light work of it double quick, which is what you need, whereas Son and Kulusevski are slowing the play down way too much or cutting inside into congested areas where the 8’s are waiting to make their runs into box once the wingers beat the fullback. I can see this being a bit of a problem, they’ll either need to adapt or I can eventually see them being replaced. Possibly even when Kane goes I would buy a new LW with this ability as Solomon can play both sides and use Son as a striker

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Would be this for me:

Vicario

Royal --- Romero --- Davies --- Udogie
Bissouma
Maddison --- Pape
Kulu ------------------ Son
Richarlison
​

GLC & Solomon the obvious game changing subs.

Dier over Davies for me at LCB but obviously ideally we sign new CB. And I’d go for Lo Celso over Sarr and Solomon over Kulu or Son.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I’m a little worried that we only currently have one winger suited to this system (Solomon). You put him in a 1v1 and he’s making light work of it double quick, which is what you need, whereas Son and Kulusevski are slowing the play down way too much or cutting inside into congested areas where the 8’s are waiting to make their runs into box once the wingers beat the fullback. I can see this being a bit of a problem, they’ll either need to adapt or I can eventually see them being replaced. Possibly even when Kane goes I would buy a new LW with this ability as Solomon can play both sides and use Son as a striker

Agree mate this is the next biggest issue after CB’s imo.

 

[andy00900]

Anyone want to be a legend and point me in the direction of the full match please? I haven't got SPURSPLAY.

Theres one on youtube, on this persons account https://www.youtube.com/@elayehd

 

[Flobadob]

Agree mate this is the next biggest issue after CB’s imo.

Convenient that we could use Son as a ST and Kulusevski as an 8, but yeah I don’t think they’re gonna cut it out wide to be completely honest

 

[bubble07]

Ignoring scorelines, and that today’s match was against much much weaker opposition, on the face of it that looked much more of the same. Very attacking approach, overwhelming domination of where the game was played, and enough chances to score a bucketful of goals.

All good then, yeah? Hmmmm. After the first game I was impressed by the level of cohesion and understanding shown already, this game I was less so tbh. Maybe it was because it’s early days, the lesser opposition, training fatigue, whatever, but I don’t think the system looked as good today and it was the possible sticking points that stood out more.

Firstly though – let’s talk about the good things today: Udogie has fitted in great so far, looks comfy getting the ball anywhere on the pitch. Bissouma doing nicely as the single pivot. Maddison had brighter moments today and got on the ball better. Emerson looked really comfy as that tucked in right back. Lo Celso looks our most natural midfielder for those attacking midfielder roles, he just floats about knitting play together around the box. Perisic’s legs (and clinical ability) have gone but he’s still got half a brain and some vision and can take a man on both ways (more on this later…). Solomon didn’t see a huge amount of ball but beat his man inside out every time. Richarlison was busy, put himself about, leads the line and creates space behind him, and was rewarded for his efforts.

That was the good, there are ill fitting pieces to the puzzle though and selections I’d flat out disagree with:

Centre backs – Still needed.

Porro – Just stop it.

Skipp – Trying his best, but hasn’t really got the ability to play in those advanced roles. Needs to be played either in the pivot role or in Emerson’s role, with the game in front of him.

Sarr – Much the same… He’s a likeable kid with some ability and a lot of running and energy and people seem to be raving about him today, but I didn’t see that much effective play with the ball and don’t see that as his best position at all. He needs the game in front of him, deeper in midfield really.

The two starting wingers – probably what I want to talk about the most. I’m seeing problems here already. In this shape (wingers glued to the touchline) and this approach (condensing everything into the last third of the pitch) what is really needed are explosive/agile/nimble players with 1v1 dribbling ability and who ideally can go both ways, left or right. That doesn’t sound like Son or Kulu to me, and we saw teething problems today. One to keep an eye on.

Kane – As I said the other day, IF he is still here he will have to adapt. We don’t need him dropping deep. In this system we have up to half a dozen players already in those areas, the job is to play against the backline, and offer focal point work, through ball runs, and do some poaching. Has been totally lost in both games.



Further reading:

So yes, still see pieces of the puzzle that need filling. Centre back obviously. We need to get both Maddison and Lo Celso in the same midfield at some point and assess it, and I’d be demanding another of that type of player for those 8/10 roles personally they’ll be crucial to how we play. Another wide player with 1vs1 ability is also maybe required, if/when Kane goes I’d probably spend the money here and put Son through the middle to duke it out with Richy.

A squad something like this would leave me content:

Goalkeepers – Vicario, Forster, (#3) from the academy lot.

Centre backs – Romero, Starting left centre back, a solid HG option like Tosin, and an experienced depth option (don’t see point of another younger one, they never play enough and don’t develop eg. Foyth).

Right Backs – Emerson, and in that tucked in role try Skipp there.

Left Backs – Udogie, Davies can back him up for now (plus cover CB or a back three option).

Pivot – Bissouma, Bentancur, (Sarr) for now as injury cover and then maybe loaned out after Xmas.

8/10’s – Maddison, Lo Celso, Signing such as Hatate who knows the system, (Devine) can be an apprentice player drip fed in.

Forwards – Son, Richarlison, Kulusevski, Solomon, New winger signing, and Perisic? maybe as depth or an (academy apprentice) drip feed as the last option.

About 20 senior players, 18 outfielders, who are close in quality and providing genuine competition and ability for playing time, supplemented by three or four younger players.

Anyone not mentioned can be bundled out the door as far as I’m concerned.



/ essay.

Nice Post although feel you were a little harsh with Sarr

 

[bubble07]

I'd like to see Kulusevski play in one of the 8s position. He was never the quickest but still seems sluggish still and its been like this for months

 

[Locotoro]

Ignoring scorelines, and that today’s match was against much much weaker opposition, on the face of it that looked much more of the same. Very attacking approach, overwhelming domination of where the game was played, and enough chances to score a bucketful of goals.

All good then, yeah? Hmmmm. After the first game I was impressed by the level of cohesion and understanding shown already, this game I was less so tbh. Maybe it was because it’s early days, the lesser opposition, training fatigue, whatever, but I don’t think the system looked as good today and it was the possible sticking points that stood out more.

Firstly though – let’s talk about the good things today: Udogie has fitted in great so far, looks comfy getting the ball anywhere on the pitch. Bissouma doing nicely as the single pivot. Maddison had brighter moments today and got on the ball better. Emerson looked really comfy as that tucked in right back. Lo Celso looks our most natural midfielder for those attacking midfielder roles, he just floats about knitting play together around the box. Perisic’s legs (and clinical ability) have gone but he’s still got half a brain and some vision and can take a man on both ways (more on this later…). Solomon didn’t see a huge amount of ball but beat his man inside out every time. Richarlison was busy, put himself about, leads the line and creates space behind him, and was rewarded for his efforts.

That was the good, there are ill fitting pieces to the puzzle though and selections I’d flat out disagree with:

Centre backs – Still needed.

Porro – Just stop it.

Skipp – Trying his best, but hasn’t really got the ability to play in those advanced roles. Needs to be played either in the pivot role or in Emerson’s role, with the game in front of him.

Sarr – Much the same… He’s a likeable kid with some ability and a lot of running and energy and people seem to be raving about him today, but I didn’t see that much effective play with the ball and don’t see that as his best position at all. He needs the game in front of him, deeper in midfield really.

The two starting wingers – probably what I want to talk about the most. I’m seeing problems here already. In this shape (wingers glued to the touchline) and this approach (condensing everything into the last third of the pitch) what is really needed are explosive/agile/nimble players with 1v1 dribbling ability and who ideally can go both ways, left or right. That doesn’t sound like Son or Kulu to me, and we saw teething problems today. One to keep an eye on.

Kane – As I said the other day, IF he is still here he will have to adapt. We don’t need him dropping deep. In this system we have up to half a dozen players already in those areas, the job is to play against the backline, and offer focal point work, through ball runs, and do some poaching. Has been totally lost in both games.



Further reading:

So yes, still see pieces of the puzzle that need filling. Centre back obviously. We need to get both Maddison and Lo Celso in the same midfield at some point and assess it, and I’d be demanding another of that type of player for those 8/10 roles personally they’ll be crucial to how we play. Another wide player with 1vs1 ability is also maybe required, if/when Kane goes I’d probably spend the money here and put Son through the middle to duke it out with Richy.

A squad something like this would leave me content:

Goalkeepers – Vicario, Forster, (#3) from the academy lot.

Centre backs – Romero, Starting left centre back, a solid HG option like Tosin, and an experienced depth option (don’t see point of another younger one, they never play enough and don’t develop eg. Foyth).

Right Backs – Emerson, and in that tucked in role try Skipp there.

Left Backs – Udogie, Davies can back him up for now (plus cover CB or a back three option).

Pivot – Bissouma, Bentancur, (Sarr) for now as injury cover and then maybe loaned out after Xmas.

8/10’s – Maddison, Lo Celso, Signing such as Hatate who knows the system, (Devine) can be an apprentice player drip fed in.

Forwards – Son, Richarlison, Kulusevski, Solomon, New winger signing, and Perisic? maybe as depth or an (academy apprentice) drip feed as the last option.

About 20 senior players, 18 outfielders, who are close in quality and providing genuine competition and ability for playing time, supplemented by three or four younger players.

Anyone not mentioned can be bundled out the door as far as I’m concerned.



/ essay.

Interesting and thorough analysis.

I agree with most. However I would say Bentancur will 100% be played as an 8 and not the 6 in this system. He fits that profile exactly with his creative passing and off the ball movement into the box and his pressing is his best defensive attribute so making him anchor the midfield as the 6 is the mistake that Juve made and why they thought he wasn't that good.

The other part I disagree with is that Deki isn't suited to this system. Of all our wide Forwards he's probably the most suited. Last season his operating position was always wide and high hugging the line and he'd always attempt to attack the box from the side(close to the byline) rather than diagonally. He can go to the line or cut inside and put in a cross or shoot. He doesn't have blistering pace but he has strength and can gain himself that yard that he needs. He's going to be important

I don't think we're going to have the overhaul that many fans are expecting. We will probably add a CB and sell the players that we are happy to sell. That means Maddison, Lo Celso, Bentancur plus one of Hojbjerg or Ndombele staying. Skipp will be the back up 6 I believe and Sarr will go on loan.

 

[Gilzeanking]

Kane – As I said the other day, IF he is still here he will have to adapt. We don’t need him dropping deep. In this system we have up to half a dozen players already in those areas, the job is to play against the backline, and offer focal point work, through ball runs, and do some poaching. Has been totally lost in both games.

I wonder what people think of Kane's engagement in these games. Yes, a lot of variables, but the contrast with Richie's effort levels/pressing etc is stark. Kane thinking about his move ? Kane feels friendly like this is unimportant to battle for ? or as suggested here something about the formation means Kane doesn't fit or need to put a shift in.

Anyway, from limited game time, it looks like Kane totally out of sorts. I think he needs a new challenge, we need mad energetic pressing from him Sonny and Kulu...not sure we have that part of Ange's style of football (I said it ! ) with these 3. They laboured vs fuckin' Lion Sailors ffs !

Soloman and Richie look more like the future of an Ange team to me...add to that Kane's replacement ofc.

 

[bubble07]

Like what I'm seeing

 

[RJR1949]

Takeaways

Pros
- Udogie looks brilliant, as does Emerson. Both comfortable making those movements inside.
- Sarr, Bissouma and Maddison look great in their roles. Think they should be our starting three at this point
- Richarlison fits the profile for an Ange striker. If we are losing Kane we won’t be reliant on a new striker adapting a few weeks into the season
- we mare enjoyable to watch again

Cons
-Kane does not fit in this system and Ange does not look to be changing it
-our Spanish full backs are a bit square peg-ish, though both provide great work in the final third
-Højbjerg and Dier are so ponderous compared to others around them
-Son is still not quite where we need our starting LW to be

Obviously this is pre-season but you can tell who can adapt and who fits the system fairly clearly - hopefully that means some squad changes in the next few weeks to better fit what Ange wants from the team.

Agreed. I’d add that Solomon might keep Son out of the starting line up.

 

[bceej]

Agreed. I’d add that Solomon might keep Son out of the starting line up.

Nice problem to have

 

[smallsnc]

Fair play on your big analysis, in terms of cohesion most the players are no where near fully fit and it’s a completely different style of play.

The ‘B Team’ seem to understand it more.

So much to be positive about.

2 things. I think those wanting GLC and Maddison in the same midfield half to realize we will not have that much of the ball in the PL. Sarr looks better at covering ground and defending in transition which will be needed. 2nd, I actually think Son would be better on the right in this system, with Kulu moving to the left (though he will be less effective because of his reliance on only 1 foot). If you are asking your wingers to play on the touch line they need to be able to drive the ball towards the end line an cross or cut it back without even trying to cut it back.

 

[bubble07]

Agreed. I’d add that Solomon might keep Son out of the starting line up.

Would be very very interesting if AP plays players on form and not reputation

 

[bubble07]

Very good analysis here

 

[jolsnogross]

Anyone not mentioned can be bundled out the door as far as I’m concerned.

Hard to see Porro being bundled out the door. But wouldn't be a surprise that we spent so much money and time acquiring him only for him to be unmatched to our next managerial move. Maybe if he sticks around long enough he'll be back in vogue, like Lo Celso.

 

[gavspur]

Thinking out loud, for Ange’s system (based on lefty’s playing left, righty’s playing right).
CF: Kane/Richarlison/Son
LW: Perisic/Solomon/Kulusevski/Gil/Son
RW: Son/Solomon/Porro/Maddison/Perisic

I’d say that’s pretty healthy. We look more fluent that way, rather than inside forwards, ie, playing the the wrong side to their strong foot.

It really reminds me of the Redknapp days of Bale and Lennon, which I loved those guys whipping in crosses and beating their fullbacks.