Poch vs the press

[Nocando]

He'd proper do over that fat bearded Samuel.

Anyway less about that. I'm not sure if this has been discussed and it's not intended to be a criticism but do you guys think that Poch struggles against pressing teams?

I think he does, Liverpool, Leverkusen, Dortmund all have made us look pretty ordinary. I know we turned over City, but I don't think they are quite like those teams mentioned, either because Pep isn't as hard a presser or because he hasn't quite got that team to where he wants them (I suspect a bit of both).

I did kind of think before today's game that we might be okay as I don't think Arsenal press like that, but I also wonder what Poch's thinking to the formation change. I might be reading into a bit too much but I wonder if he was trying to second guess Wenger, in anticipating he would try and employ a high line press. There were some glimpses of them trying it, but no where near as successful as we've seen.

So if you agree, do you think he recognises this slight flaw and is trying to think outside the box?

Furthermore is this formation change the way to combat it (giving us more options to play from the back for example)? If true I wonder if we will see more of this formation when we play the likes of Liverpool.

Do you also think we will try and add a little more directness into our game as another tool to deal with the high press, or do you think Poch will continue with the tried and tested, as this is the belief and style he wants us to play regardless. I still might be reading into it too much but I thought I saw a bit more direct play against Arsenal too, but not sure if this is the case and whether it's related.

Or it all could be a load of bollocks and my mind is frazzled after heading the ball too much.

 

[double0]

I think we shouldn't get to hung up about the pressing game...our biggest worry is we're not clinical with our chance.

The game becomes easier when you've established a lead

 

[newbie]

We have had a fair few injuries I don't think we have found our stride yet, personally not worried yet, just need to finish more of our chances.

 

[Kiedis]

With our normal swagger, we tend to welcome high pressing, as we've been good at passing our way through it ever since the start of last season. Our MO is either to play ourselves out, and if we deem it too risky, we'll always try and have an out ball option of playing it longer up to the full backs, that has moved up near the half way line.

This season, we struggled somewhat against Liverpool, and recently against Leverkusen. The last one was most about lack of confidence, I think.

There'll always be instances where we wont be able to play through it or handle it, but I can't really say that it's something we've struggled with.

 

[Nocando]

It's happened again. I'm sure we aren't well equipped for the press. Plus I noticed Liverpool play a different brand of it. They swarm over players from the back but when they retrieve possession they are much more direct. Where as we still try to work it out from the back.

The change in formation helped to a degree but the game was lost in the first half and Liverpool did conserve more in the second.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Rob Draper is one hundred percent spot on, a level headed journalist who tells it like it is.

http://www.skysports.com/watch/vide...ent/10765437/8216spurs-still-some-way-off8217

 

[mightyspur]

Poch does need to come up with a better plan when we play a team known to press. Most of the goals we have conceded in those games have come from simple mistakes on our side that have been punished.

 

[yido_number1]

Poch does need to come up with a better plan when we play a team known to press. Most of the goals we have conceded in those games have come from simple mistakes on our side that have been punished.

I think the 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 we've been playing is that better way. Unfortunately without Vertonghen there isn't enough experience to pull that off. When you then take Rose's attacking out of the back 4 we look slow getting out and Davies coming in with no rythmn is a liability unfortunately. If he get's enough games he looks ok but he got punished time and again on Saturday.

Wouldn't be surprised if we change our defensive options in the Summer. Looks like Poch doesn't like Wimmer in the back 3 and I think he might think he needs to upgrade Davies. If he does that I think we will be a 3-4-3 team for most games.

 

[lukespurs7]

The manner of this loss was really difficult to take because it concerns me that Poch hasn't learnt from that last 4x we've played klopps l-pool and been outplayed everytime, this was also similar to how man.utd played against us at old Trafford and also Monaco and Leverkusen and Dortmund last year. When we get pressed like that and not able to play out from that back we have no plan B. On their day at home Liverpool under Klopp are a world class team and most teams struggle against them, losing is one thing and putting it into perspective it's only our 3rd loss of the season which is bloody good going, BUT it was the manner we lost which was so so hard to take. We created absolutely fuck all chances, seemed to lack fight right from the start and more concerningly a tactical plan B to play against this kind of approach.

The team and manager are young, & hope they learn from this and fast.
Let's bounce back vs Gent. We're still on for an excellent season.

COYS

 

[mightyspur]

I think the 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 we've been playing is that better way. Unfortunately without Vertonghen there isn't enough experience to pull that off. When you then take Rose's attacking out of the back 4 we look slow getting out and Davies coming in with no rythmn is a liability unfortunately. If he get's enough games he looks ok but he got punished time and again on Saturday.

Wouldn't be surprised if we change our defensive options in the Summer. Looks like Poch doesn't like Wimmer in the back 3 and I think he might think he needs to upgrade Davies. If he does that I think we will be a 3-4-3 team for most games.

Yeah, but you've nailed it on the head. If we don't have the personnel to play that system and we know we are coming up against a side we know will more than likely press us, we should be coming up with a plan to counter that. Just saying 3-5-2 / 3-4-3 is the answer isn't really good enough when you don't have the players equipped to pull it off (giggidy). I suspect we'll look to strengthen over the summer, so it may become a moo point, but it's something I think Poch should have addressed, considering injuries can occur at any time

 

[lukespurs7]

Yeah, but you've nailed it on the head. If we don't have the personnel to play that system and we know we are coming up against a side we know will more than likely press us, we should be coming up with a plan to counter that. Just saying 3-5-2 / 3-4-3 is the answer isn't really good enough when you don't have the players equipped to pull it off (giggidy). I suspect we'll look to strengthen over the summer, so it may become a moo point, but it's something I think Poch should have addressed, considering injuries can occur at any time

This.

 

[dagraham]

This is something that's been obvious for a while, even going as far back as Klopp's first game in charge of Liverpool. They swarmed all over us, but didn't have the forward players to hurt us and ended up running out of steam.

Truth is, we are not great when we are harried and not given time on the ball. Not just our back five, but the whole team. We heard Pep say recently that if you give Tottenham time they are the best team in the league. I don't think we possess the players or the mind-set to play quickly through the press as we often want too many touches of the ball.

When our game plan works it's hard to stop, but to go to the next level we have to either:

a) adapt and change the way we play from time to time. Sometimes mid game. Which is much more than nominally changing formations and switching to or from a back 3 etc. It means changing the actual way we play, whether that means dropping off and playing on the counter/utilising width other than from the fullbacks/playing more direct/bringing additional strikers off the bench and going for it etc. Or,

b) spending more money and wages to bring higher quality players in who can execute the philosophy better, even when confronted with a Liverpool or City up for it at home.

With b) seemingly not really an option (at least until the stadium allows us to financially compete), then as far as I'm concerned a) is the only option.

Question is, will Poch see it that way?

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

Yeah, but you've nailed it on the head. If we don't have the personnel to play that system and we know we are coming up against a side we know will more than likely press us, we should be coming up with a plan to counter that. Just saying 3-5-2 / 3-4-3 is the answer isn't really good enough when you don't have the players equipped to pull it off (giggidy). I suspect we'll look to strengthen over the summer, so it may become a moo point, but it's something I think Poch should have addressed, considering injuries can occur at any time

Just love the moo point

 

[HildoSpur]

We are struggling big time with the loss of Rose and Jan - that's a big part of the problem right now. Let's not get carried away.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

Last season our issue was lower teams sitting deep against us at home. Poch found a way to adjust our pattern of play to deal with this. This season it seems like away teams have figured out how to counter our possession brand of football by pressing us intensely. I have no doubt Poch will find a way to deal with that too.

I agree with most of the analysis in the prior posts but one aspect people haven't focussed on that really, really annoys me is Lloris' distribution. I'm not advocating a Pep / Bravo solution but it really doesn't look like Hugo practices passing with his feet at all during the week as he is just as bad from one week to the next and even when we are on top of teams this is the one facet of our game that gets me worried about chance creation for the opposition. Its all very well him berating the team on social media (see the official FB page post game) but he really needs to look in the mirror too.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

When playing with 3 x lightweights ( Alli, Eriksen and Son) in midfield against teams that press hard with aggression, we struggle and will continue to struggle. These guys, who are very talented, tend to go missing in these type of games. Happened at OT earlier this year.

 

[dagraham]

We are struggling big time with the loss of Rose and Jan - that's a big part of the problem right now. Let's not get carried away.

But should everything be so dependant on a couple of players? Understandable our level has dropped, but we should still be able to compete.

 

[jurgen]

We are struggling big time with the loss of Rose and Jan - that's a big part of the problem right now. Let's not get carried away.

Of course we are, and that's understandable, however I think part of the argument is that Poch's approach to games needs to change when we no longer have those players available. Davies and Dier cannot do what the other two can, so there would be nothing wrong with a change in tack to reflect this. Otherwise we're in the position where losing an LB and CB from our back line not only makes our defence shaky as hell (which one might expect), but also makes our forward play utterly toothless, and that surely shouldn't be right..

 

[yido_number1]

When playing with 3 x lightweights ( Alli, Eriksen and Son) in midfield against teams that press hard with aggression, we struggle and will continue to struggle. These guys, who are very talented, tend to go missing in these type of games. Happened at OT earlier this year.

Alli a light weight, I've heard it all.

I think we were actually short of a ball player that can keep a cool head and pass out of trouble. Wanyama/Dembele combo is great when we are pressing. When we aren't pressing you need someone cool to play the ball around and find spaces. Winks made a big difference when he came on just by finding the passes and gaps.

Son was the right call as we needed his pace to play out balls to and to be fair a better finish and it would of been 2-1 before half time. It's frustrating it was against Liverpool but its only one extra game we've lost and we're still in the mix. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water we always get a reaction after a defeat and you can be sure Poch will be drilling them into shape this week.

 

[Chimbo1]

When playing with 3 x lightweights ( Alli, Eriksen and Son) in midfield against teams that press hard with aggression, we struggle and will continue to struggle. These guys, who are very talented, tend to go missing in these type of games. Happened at OT earlier this year.

Agree, we missLamela, he is taylor made for a game like Saturdays