Playing without Dembele

[idontgetit]

I massively rate Dele as a CM, not sure why people dismiss him when the guys only what...20?

 

[Mullers]

Think you're reaching their Mullers. Outstanding midfield player in Europe last year. Our results without him speak for themselves.

What do you mean? I am saying his form was great last season? You don't think he can match last season's form?

 

[beats1]

I massively rate Dele as a CM, not sure why people dismiss him when the guys only what...20?

I dismiss him as a CM because his passing is poor with a midfield in front of him

 

[Damian99]

We can't.

 

[idontgetit]

I dismiss him as a CM because his passing is poor with a midfield in front of him

His attacking passing is very dangerous, it's just the possession passing he's not so good with. Young enough to improve on that though and I don't think Wanyama's passing is anything to shout about so far

 

[RichieS]

Sissoko possesses similar qualities but until now has only ever shown them against us and for France.

 

[beats1]

His attacking passing is very dangerous, it's just the possession passing he's not so good with. Young enough to improve on that though and I don't think Wanyama's passing is anything to shout about so far

His attacking passing is only dangerous because he is doing it between the the midfield and defence, where he has space to make a pass. When there is chaos Alli will try to exploit the weakness in the other team whether by running to cause the/more chaos or making a flick or pass

However further back and he is stunted. He doesn't have the vision to see a pass before it happens but rather does see passes when an opportunity arises

Also Poch for me is to blame for the poor performances in CM by playing two DM's

 

[idontgetit]

His attacking passing is only dangerous because he is doing it between the the midfield and defence, where he has space to make a pass. When there is chaos Alli will try to exploit the weakness in the other team whether by running to cause the chaos or making a flick or pass

However further back and he is stunted. He doesn't have the vision to see a pass before it happens but rather does see passes when an opportunity arises

Also Poch for me is to blame for the poor performances in CM by playing two DM's

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[pook]

It seems clear again that our system struggles without Dembele, as Poch jokes about in this article.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...not-exist-without-mousa-dembele-a7213991.html

We either need to find a similar style player as backup, difficult but can't be impossible ? His Belgian teammate at Roma could be that guy but is probably too old and expensive for us. Anyone any thoughts on other Dembele Mark 2 ?

it can't be that fookin' hard. Fulham seems to offer us a Moussa Dembele every other year.

 

[JayB]

I don't mean to castigate anyone but I'm sick of hearing sentiments along the lines of "You can't replace Dembele so there's no point in trying." It's true that Dembele is a genuinely unique player in world football and it would be impossible to bring in another player with his exact skillset, but I think that's rather missing the point.

The main issue is not that we don't have a Dembele clone, it's that we don't have anyone who can give us something different from CM while maintaining the level of our performances.

With Bentaleb out of favor our only options last season were Mason and Carroll, and they proved themselves not up to the task. It's no coincidence that both are strongly linked with a move away before the end of the window, and even if they stick around it's clear they aren't in Poch's long-term plan.

We then brought in Wanyama, who is much more of a rotation option with Dier than a viable partner for him. When the two play together we move the ball so slowly and horizontally that we can't get to the AMs in good positions, which I think is the main reason Eriksen and Alli have looked so woefully out of form thus far. It's much more difficult to operate when you are receiving the ball with your back to goal and two banks for four set in front of you.

Dembele addresses this problem by taking players on and breaking through the opponent's first line of defense with the ball at his feet, but that is by no means the only suitable tactic. If we had a quality passing CM who could up the tempo and play the ball in between the lines, it would also open up those little pockets of space for the AMs to exploit which have been so scarce without Dembele.

I'm hopeful that Winks will be that player for us but if Poch doesn't deem him ready then it has to be addressed in the transfer market. Otherwise we'd be completely reliant on the insipid two-DM system every time we need to rotate Moussa, which would really cost us. The alternative doesn't need to be an exact replica of Dembele.

 

[am_yisrael_chai]

I don't meant to castigate anyone but I'm sick of hearing sentiments along the lines of "You can't replace Dembele so there's no point in trying." It's true that Dembele is a genuinely unique player in world football and it would be impossible to bring in another player with his exact skillset, but I think that's rather missing the point.

The main issue is not that we don't have a Dembele clone, it's that we don't have anyone who can give us something different from CM while maintaining the level of our performances.

With Bentaleb out of favor our only options last season were Mason and Carroll, and they proved themselves not up to the task. It's no coincidence that both are strongly linked with a move away before the end of the window, and even if they stick around it's clear they aren't in Poch's long-term plan.

We then brought in Wanyama, who is much more of a rotation option with Dier than a viable partner for him. When the two play together we move the ball so slowly and horizontally that we can't get to the AMs in good positions, which I think is the main reason Eriksen and Alli have looked so woefully out of form thus far. It's much more difficult to operate when you are receiving the ball with your back to goal and two banks for four set in front of you.

Dembele addresses this problem by taking players on and breaking through the opponent's first line of defense with the ball at his feet, but that is by no means the only suitable tactic. If we had a quality passing CM who could up the tempo and play the ball in between the lines, it would also open up those little pockets of space for the AMs to exploit which have been so scarce without Dembele.

I'm hopefuly that Winks will be that player for us but if Poch doesn't deem him ready then it has to be addressed in the transfer market. Otherwise we'd be completely reliant on the insipid two-DM system every time we need to rotate Moussa, which would really cost us. The alternative doesn't need to be an exact replica of Dembele.

Totally agree that it doesn't have to be about finding a like for like replacement for Dembele but if we don't have that then Poch needs to get the team to compensate. The bottom line is that we need to attack by moving the ball forward quickly. Our attacking so far with Wanyama/Dier has been very slow and ponderous. That needs to change. I do fear that Poch is playing Wanyama/Dier to make some kind of point. I'm not sure even he believes in it as proved by not having Trippier on the bench when he knew Walker was ill. It's almost as if he was looking to change the midfield but couldn't bring himself to not pick both Wanyama and Dier.

 

[Cravenspurs]

I don't meant to castigate anyone but I'm sick of hearing sentiments along the lines of "You can't replace Dembele so there's no point in trying." It's true that Dembele is a genuinely unique player in world football and it would be impossible to bring in another player with his exact skillset, but I think that's rather missing the point.

The main issue is not that we don't have a Dembele clone, it's that we don't have anyone who can give us something different from CM while maintaining the level of our performances.

With Bentaleb out of favor our only options last season were Mason and Carroll, and they proved themselves not up to the task. It's no coincidence that both are strongly linked with a move away before the end of the window, and even if they stick around it's clear they aren't in Poch's long-term plan.

We then brought in Wanyama, who is much more of a rotation option with Dier than a viable partner for him. When the two play together we move the ball so slowly and horizontally that we can't get to the AMs in good positions, which I think is the main reason Eriksen and Alli have looked so woefully out of form thus far. It's much more difficult to operate when you are receiving the ball with your back to goal and two banks for four set in front of you.

Dembele addresses this problem by taking players on and breaking through the opponent's first line of defense with the ball at his feet, but that is by no means the only suitable tactic. If we had a quality passing CM who could up the tempo and play the ball in between the lines, it would also open up those little pockets of space for the AMs to exploit which have been so scarce without Dembele.

I'm hopeful that Winks will be that player for us but if Poch doesn't deem him ready then it has to be addressed in the transfer market. Otherwise we'd be completely reliant on the insipid two-DM system every time we need to rotate Moussa, which would really cost us. The alternative doesn't need to be an exact replica of Dembele.

THIS whole thing right here. We don't need a clone, we need a ball mover. Pirlo wasn't Dembele but moved that ball quickly and efficiently to become one of the best there ever was. Silva going to Leicester grinds my gears as I think he would be a great addition as one of these box to box passers of the ball.

But I, like you, am in the Winksy camp. I think the kid has it and have been beating that drum since preseason. He makes that ball move and covers quite well. So part of me is like "if no one comes in, Winks gets the green light" and that excites me.

 

[WexfordTownSpur]

I don't mean to castigate anyone but I'm sick of hearing sentiments along the lines of "You can't replace Dembele so there's no point in trying." It's true that Dembele is a genuinely unique player in world football and it would be impossible to bring in another player with his exact skillset, but I think that's rather missing the point.
The main issue is not that we don't have a Dembele clone, it's that we don't have anyone who can give us something different from CM while maintaining the level of our performances.

With Bentaleb out of favor our only options last season were Mason and Carroll, and they proved themselves not up to the task. It's no coincidence that both are strongly linked with a move away before the end of the window, and even if they stick around it's clear they aren't in Poch's long-term plan.

We then brought in Wanyama, who is much more of a rotation option with Dier than a viable partner for him. When the two play together we move the ball so slowly and horizontally that we can't get to the AMs in good positions, which I think is the main reason Eriksen and Alli have looked so woefully out of form thus far. It's much more difficult to operate when you are receiving the ball with your back to goal and two banks for four set in front of you.

Dembele addresses this problem by taking players on and breaking through the opponent's first line of defense with the ball at his feet, but that is by no means the only suitable tactic. If we had a quality passing CM who could up the tempo and play the ball in between the lines, it would also open up those little pockets of space for the AMs to exploit which have been so scarce without Dembele.

I'm hopeful that Winks will be that player for us but if Poch doesn't deem him ready then it has to be addressed in the transfer market. Otherwise we'd be completely reliant on the insipid two-DM system every time we need to rotate Moussa, which would really cost us. The alternative doesn't need to be an exact replica of Dembele.

Do you think Poch thinks that either Dier or Victor can develop into the MD role? I was thinking that might be the plan this year when MD isn't in the team. Then maybe long term Winks maybe an option. Personally I have seen signs from Victor that he could be more offensive and take on players, he is quick and strong, if he can improve he's ball control I think he could make it as a AMF player?