Player watch: Toby Alderweireld

[ravo]

I didn't see much of the WC but Toby was never quick. He has always struggled a bit with pacey players. He has excellent positioning and reading of the game. Good tackler and good header of the ball. That's what makes him a great CB.

That's what makes him a great defender. Good at the above and tackling doesn't need to happen too often. Main reason for the gap between Ledley and other 'dynamic' defenders who you see sprinting about and slide tackling everywhere. Ledley was very rarely out of position or needed to dive in. Absolute Rolls Royce. Toby is of the same ilk, IMO.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...tween-man-utd-and-tottenham-remains-far-apart

Utd are idiots. If next summer when we extend Toby’s deal he’s available for £25m anyway, how can they think they’d get him now for that kind of price (or barely more) when we have it in the bag next summer anyway.

 

[SpartanSpur]

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...tween-man-utd-and-tottenham-remains-far-apart

Utd are idiots. If next summer when we extend Toby’s deal he’s available for £25m anyway, how can they think they’d get him now for that kind of price (or barely more) when we have it in the bag next summer anyway.

They paid a notional fee (due to the swap) of £30m for a player with 6 months left. Paying £50m+ for a top quality player who is available for £25m next summer seems pretty fair by that metric.

Plus they just went public with a £65m valuation of Maguire, they can't say they don't have the cash!

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...tween-man-utd-and-tottenham-remains-far-apart

Utd are idiots. If next summer when we extend Toby’s deal he’s available for £25m anyway, how can they think they’d get him now for that kind of price (or barely more) when we have it in the bag next summer anyway.

£45m is a good fee for him but he shouldn't be used for profit this window he should be used to get Martial

 

[pffft]

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...tween-man-utd-and-tottenham-remains-far-apart

Utd are idiots. If next summer when we extend Toby’s deal he’s available for £25m anyway, how can they think they’d get him now for that kind of price (or barely more) when we have it in the bag next summer anyway.

Haven't read the article, but I'm still going to answer this. If there is a player that a club wants to buy, and that club knows that a) the selling club wants rid, b) the player wants to join them and c) there are no higher offers on the table, it would be perfectly sensible for that club to offer the price (or a little higher) that the player would be available for in a year's time. Take it now, or pay the player's wages for a year and then take it.

I'm not saying that this is the exact scenario with Utd and Toby...but I doubt it's far off.

 

[Ben1]

I think the key factor in all this is that we apparently want rid. That's the main card Utd hold. If our or Tobys stance softens, then it becomes even harder for them.

 

[SpartanSpur]

Haven't read the article, but I'm still going to answer this. If there is a player that a club wants to buy, and that club knows that a) the selling club wants rid, b) the player wants to join them and c) there are no higher offers on the table, it would be perfectly sensible for that club to offer the price the player would be available for in a year's time. Take it now, or pay the player's wages for a year and then take it.

I'm not saying that this is the exact scenario with Utd and Toby...but I doubt it's far off.

It's definitely whats going on from the Utd end, but Levy's counter argument is:-

A) He knows he's one of Utd's only viable targets.
B) He knows Utd are flush with cash and Jose is putting the pressure on.
C) He knows Utd have a player they want out, who we think wants us, which is a powerful bargaining tool.
D) We have pretty much replaced Toby already with Sanchez due to various circumstances, so if we have to keep him as a backup for 6-12 months it's not the end of the world. An unsettled backup is easier to cope with than an unsettled key player.
E) There is a chance a new deal can even be agreed if bridges can be mended.

He also hates them and would not want to leave any negotiations looking weak. There's still the likelihood he goes for straight cash but I wouldn't back Woodward to beat Levy in a game of chicken. It'd have to be a LOT of money. Their switch to Maguire suggests they're getting twitchy.

 

[ToDarrenIsToDo]

I think the key factor in all this is that we apparently want rid. That's the main card Utd hold. If our or Tobys stance softens, then it becomes even harder for them.

We still hold a lot of weight behind this one though. Toby will be 30 by the time his clause kicks in, Jose will have to endure another season of Jones, Rojo etc and we get to keep a top CB as backup to Sanchez &a Jan.

Toby is in a bit of a pickle right now, as are Man U as waiting a whole season for a defender who will be 30 by then seems a bit excessive and the only thing that damages us is dropping our profits by £25m should we decide to keep him.

We lose out in monetary value, Toby misses out both monetary and playing time wise and Man U write off a whole season defensively by not waiting for their man and we all know Jose likes to move fast like he did getting Alexis in January rather than waiting a few more months.

I think there's a deal to be had here, as there is with Grealish and I hope Martial but it's a lot of who blinks first going on. We could end up seeing a Toby/ Martial trade and winning the face off regarding Grealish,we could end up seeing just Toby stay but one scenario that I completely disagree with is giving Man U Toby for anything less than £50m/£55m unless it invokes a Martial swap

 

[pffft]

It's definitely whats going on from the Utd end, but Levy's counter argument is:-

A) He knows he's one of Utd's only viable targets.
B) He knows Utd are flush with cash and Jose is putting the pressure on.
C) He knows Utd have a player they want out, who we think wants us, which is a powerful bargaining tool.
D) We have pretty much replaced Toby already with Sanchez due to various circumstances, so if we have to keep him as a backup for 6-12 months it's not the end of the world. An unsettled backup is easier to cope with than an unsettled key player.
E) There is a chance a new deal can even be agreed if bridges can be mended.

He also hates them and would not want to leave any negotiations looking weak. There's still the likelihood he goes for straight cash but I wouldn't back Woodward to beat Levy in a game of chicken. It'd have to be a LOT of money. Their switch to Maguire suggests they're getting twitchy.

I totally agree with all of this, I was just explaining how Utd might think they could get him cheap. I doubt they will get him cheap, but they'd be stupid not to try.

If Woodward's getting pressure from Mourinho to sell Martial and get Alderweireld, from Martial to be sold to Spurs, and from Levy about anything, unless their board steps in and completely vetoes it, I think he caves and the deal works for us. Levy isn't going to cave unless it would mean Poch walks - and he might not even then.

 

[SpartanSpur]

I totally agree with all of this, I was just explaining how Utd might think they could get him cheap. I doubt they will get him cheap, but they'd be stupid not to try.

If Woodward's getting pressure from Mourinho to sell Martial and get Alderweireld, from Martial to be sold to Spurs, and from Levy about anything, unless their board steps in and completely vetoes it, I think he caves and the deal works for us. Levy isn't going to cave unless it would mean Poch walks - and he might not even then.

Guess that's why this was always going to be a long drawn out poker game.

 

[RichieS]

That's what makes him a great defender. Good at the above and tackling doesn't need to happen too often. Main reason for the gap between Ledley and other 'dynamic' defenders who you see sprinting about and slide tackling everywhere. Ledley was very rarely out of position or needed to dive in. Absolute Rolls Royce. Toby is of the same ilk, IMO.

And what made Ledley the best was that he was rapid to go with it.

 

[AJW]

The Djene Dakonam thread has been closed but France Football saying Leicester will bid 35 million imminently. Their Maguire replacement?

 

[SpartanSpur]

Delaney at the independent saying Toby is still #1 choice and Utd sources expect the deal to be done late on at Levy's price. They are struggling to shift their current CBs apparently causing a problem.

 

[Univarn]

Delaney at the independent saying Toby is still #1 choice and Utd sources expect the deal to be done late on at Levy's price. They are struggling to shift their current CBs apparently causing a problem.

I feel like at one point Delaney was a pretty spot on Journo but lately or at least this summer he's been wide of the mark a whole ton.

 

[Johnny J]

In the games against Belgium and France, I saw him get beat for pace multiple times and look reluctant to get physical with anyone.

 

[synththfc]

*Brazil, damn brain stops working from time to time

 

[Lighty64]

I'll offer a rebuttal and say that after Toby's absence our defense was clearly not as good as it had been, especially in "big" games. After Toby went out we gave up 2 to Arsenal, 4 to Juve over 2 games, 7 against Man City in 2 games, 2 to ManU in the Semi and 2 to Liverpool away. We are a better team when Toby plays, I'm honestly shocked that its debatable.

the season before we didn't concede so many in 1 match v Man C, and Arse, but we still concede in games v Liverpool, Man U, Man C, and 4 in the semi's v Chelsea. we also conceded 4 v Leicester in the final game last season.

if Poch goes with 4 at the back which we only need v bus parker, then someone has to give way. Sanchez was the 1st player to pen a new deal, Toby has fucked around. which one do you think Poch feels is really committed to the cause

 

[spursfan77]

I feel like at one point Delaney was a pretty spot on Journo but lately or at least this summer he's been wide of the mark a whole ton.

He’s useless. He’s the one who created the whole “Poch has a Real Madrid release clause” nonsense in June. He just made it up. Probably makes most of his transfer stories up too.

 

[hellava_tough]

Who knows, but I could see Toby staying now and signing a new contract; there doesn't seem to be the interest in him that there once was

If the mooted 'three signings' happen for us and they're good ones, then he may even feel he's got a better chance of winning things with us over Utd

Of course it all depends on whether Poch forgives him or not...

 

[ShaunL84]

Toby's value rises after United's capitulation against Liverpool.