Player Watch Player Watch: Timo Werner

[mil1lion]

I know that’s a joke but if we get to an FA Cup final that’s an incredible achievement alone that we likely wouldn’t have achieved without Werner’s help on the way there.

Indeed and he did start the CL Final which Chelsea won

 

[BorjeSpurs]

Indeed and he did start the CL Final which Chelsea won

A forward line for the ages on that day.

 

[GMI]

The same lot who are moaning about Werner deal are probably the same lot who

- moan about not signing anyone early
- wanted Gif Orban
- expect to sign Osimhen, Mbappe or Toney
- moaned about Raya over Vicario, Tapsoba over Van der Ven

Unbelievable!!!!!

To be honest there is not a whole lot of moaning about this deal in this thread. Most people (obviously not all) see the benefits. There are more posts in this thread moaning about the moaners than there are by the moaners..

 

[Kingellesar]

Remember, Chelsea like to ruin strikers.

Werner, Falcao, Torres, Aubameyang, Morata, Higuain, Pato, Lukaku, Shevchenko etc.

They always seem to find a way to bring in a player who has proven himself elsewhere but then struggles at Chelsea. His second spell hasn't been great at Leipzig but he has still chipped in with goals. I'm happy to give him a chance in our forward line, he has a point to prove and will want to make sure he is in the Germany squad for the Euros.

 

[Styopa]

I don’t think many people are moaning about the Werner deal, it’s just some people find the deal underwhelming given his form of the last few years.

I think that’s a legitimate concern but it’s mitigated by the fact it’s a loan, we need more depth, we don’t know what other serious options the club would be willing to sanction in Jan, Werner brings something a bit different, he has some big game experience and there was a period when he was on fire.

 

[charliemouse]

If Jennings thinks Werner could get into Chelsea's worst ever team, Jennings clearly doesn't remember the period from the mid 1970s to the early 1980s. One season in the early '80s, they were in the old Division 2 and finished 1 place and 1 or 2 points above the relegation zone.

Chelsea used to be so bad they had to poach a manager from Reading of all places.

 

[StanSpur]

I don’t think many people are moaning about the Werner deal, it’s just some people find the deal underwhelming given his form of the last few years.

I think that’s a legitimate concern but it’s mitigated by the fact it’s a loan, we need more depth, we don’t know what other serious options the club would be willing to sanction in Jan, Werner brings something a bit different, he has some big game experience and there was a period when he was on fire.

This. I think the club will assess options for Richarlson at the end of the season and potentially sell him to Saudi if possible. then they would look at new number 9 signings. Right now there is only Toney at 100m and that is not good value. We have Son as our second striker but he is away for 4-5 weeks so a loan of a very pacey player with a point to prove for national selection is not a bad stop gap until Son returns as Richis deputy. If he turns out to be more then great, if not then no loss.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

I've really warmed up to this transfer after the initial feeling of being underwhelmed.

Hope he can get in asap and up to speed to help over the next few weeks.

 

[Yid-ol]

Remember, Chelsea like to ruin strikers.

Werner, Falcao, Torres, Aubameyang, Morata, Higuain, Pato, Lukaku, Shevchenko etc.

They always seem to find a way to bring in a player who has proven himself elsewhere but then struggles at Chelsea. His second spell hasn't been great at Leipzig but he has still chipped in with goals. I'm happy to give him a chance in our forward line, he has a point to prove and will want to make sure he is in the Germany squad for the Euros.

They have also had Salah and KDB on their books, and didn't get the best out of them (though they we're young)

 

[Daredevil]

The way our season is going I’m happy for Timo’s medical to take all week.

 

[brasil_spur]

I don’t think many people are moaning about the Werner deal, it’s just some people find the deal underwhelming given his form of the last few years.

Last season his stats were:

Bundesliga: 9 goals and 4 assists in 27 games.
German Cup: 5 goals and 1 assist in 5 games.
Champions League: 2 goals and 1 assist in 8 games.

In total that's 16 goals and 6 assists in 40 games.

Season before at Chelsea his stats were:

PL: 4 goals and 1 assist from 21 games.
FA Cup: 2 goals and 3 assists from 5 games.
Champions League: 4 goals and 2 assists from 5 games.

In total that's 10 goals and 6 assists from 31 games.

So in his two most reason full seasons, which have been deemed underwhelming by many, he's provided a goal or assist every other game.

 

[gavspur]

It’s a shame the no18 shirt is taken, purely for nostalgia reasons with a Klinsmann link.

 

[dvdhopeful]

The way our season is going I’m happy for Timo’s medical to take all week.

The way our season is going, he'll do a hammy trying to get onto the examination table.

 

[ultimateloner]

It's a sensible deal. The upside seems limited but there is almost no downside risk.

 

[worcestersauce]

I think he’ll certainly be starting LW ahead of Johnson for starters and might get some minutes up top as well as Ange tends to take Richy off after 60-70 mins.

Personally I think he'll play in the middle.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

Last season his stats were:

Bundesliga: 9 goals and 4 assists in 27 games.
German Cup: 5 goals and 1 assist in 5 games.
Champions League: 2 goals and 1 assist in 8 games.

In total that's 16 goals and 6 assists in 40 games.

Season before at Chelsea his stats were:

PL: 4 goals and 1 assist from 21 games.
FA Cup: 2 goals and 3 assists from 5 games.
Champions League: 4 goals and 2 assists from 5 games.

In total that's 10 goals and 6 assists from 31 games.

So in his two most reason full seasons, which have been deemed underwhelming by many, he's provided a goal or assist every other game.

Which begs the reason why is the general consensus that since he moved to Chelsea his performances have been disappointing and he hasn’t lived up to his early potential. How did he end up being 4th choice and why is he going on loan halfway through a season with a relatively low, by today’s market, buy option?

I think this is why stats alone are never the best way to judge a player, you need context. For an example we don’t need to look far, most spurs fans want rid of Richy in fact a lot want him dropped for Werner. If I hadn’t have watched any of our games I’d be completely confused by that concept. He’s scored 5 in his last 6 PL games after coming back from injury that he has carried all season. I mean surely he is our man. Obviously those numbers don’t paint the whole picture and it’s the same with Werner.

Werner is a player who often lacks concentration, has really poor composure, questionable shooting technique and struggles with being offside. He will often need numerous chances to bag a goal. One game he might have one shot and one goal and the next he will take 10 and end up with nothing. That being said he is incredibly fast, presses really well and when in a purple patch + locked in can be an excellent player. He has the raw ability but at 27 it’s a question of if he will ever make the step up. Consistency can be a big problem for him but as you point out, numbers on the board are very solid.

I admit when the news of this first came out I was underwhelmed. But the reason I felt like that is probably because I had unrealistic ideas about what we could achieve in the window. In retrospect I think the move makes complete sense. He might not add what I think is missing to our attack in regards to skill set but he still does add something. We don’t have a lot of money but we need to strengthen in two if not maybe three positions. Beyond that the money we do have is understandably going towards a CB. Given those parameters a loan for Werner is a very savvy move. That being said having watched a lot of him over the years he is an incredibly frustrating player. Ange wanting him makes a big big difference and although he isn’t a miracle worker, no one is, his work thus far puts him pretty close to it and if anyone can elevate Werner’s game it’s him.

Worse case scenario he’s a solid bench option who can run fast, best case scenario Ange rejuvenates and refines him.

 

[brasil_spur]

But Salah and De Bruyne were smashing it at their new times before coming back to the premier league. Werner struggles to start

Let's take Salah as it's easier to compare their stats as they both play very similar positions.

Salah's first full season away from Chelsea at Roma he got 15 goals and 7 assists in 42 games, so that's 0.52 goal involvements per game. Yes he went on to have a better second full season away getting 19 goals and 15 assists in 41 games.

Werner's first full season away from Chelsea at RBL he got 16 goals and 6 assists in 40 games, so that's 0.55 goal involvements per game. Yes he's having a worse second full season so far.

But first full season away from Chelsea and both players look very similar stat wise.

 

[Rosco1984]

If he ever rediscovers his pre chelsea form which he could do in Ange's system as he has played in more pragmatic systems since he left Nagelsmanns Red Bull. Then there is a hell of a lot of upside.

 

[brasil_spur]

Which begs the reason why is the general consensus that since he moved to Chelsea his performances have been disappointing and he hasn’t lived up to his early potential. How did he end up being 4th choice and why is he going on loan halfway through a season with a relatively low, by today’s market, buy option?

I think this is why stats alone are never the best way to judge a player, you need context. For an example we don’t need to look far, most spurs fans want rid of Richy in fact a lot want him dropped for Werner. If I hadn’t have watched any of our games I’d be completely confused by that concept. He’s scored 5 in his last 6 PL games after coming back from injury that he has carried all season. I mean surely he is our man. Obviously those numbers don’t paint the whole picture and it’s the same with Werner.

Werner is a player who often lacks concentration, has really poor composure, questionable shooting technique and struggles with being offside. He will often need numerous chances to bag a goal. One game he might have one shot and one goal and the next he will take 10 and end up with nothing. That being said he is incredibly fast, presses really well and when in a purple patch + locked in can be an excellent player. He has the raw ability but at 27 it’s a question of if he will ever make the step up. Consistency can be a big problem for him but as you point out, numbers on the board are very solid.

I admit when the news of this first came out I was underwhelmed. But the reason I felt like that is probably because I had unrealistic ideas about what we could achieve in the window. In retrospect I think the move makes complete sense. He might not add what I think is missing to our attack in regards to skill set but he still does add something. We don’t have a lot of money but we need to strengthen in two if not maybe three positions. Beyond that the money we do have is understandably going towards a CB. Given those parameters a loan for Werner is a very savvy move. That being said having watched a lot of him over the years he is an incredibly frustrating player. Ange wanting him makes a big big difference and although he isn’t a miracle worker, no one is, his work thus far puts him pretty close to it and if anyone can elevate Werner’s game it’s him.

Worse case scenario he’s a solid bench option who can run fast, best case scenario Ange rejuvenates and refines him.

So I kind of agree with his, but forward players are much easier to judge from their stats IMO. If a player is banging in 25 goals per season then frankly does much else matter? Not saying this is the case here, but my point is that judging a forward player on goals and assists is actually a pretty good way to look at things, whereas elsewhere on the pitch stats alone can be much more misleading.

Really I was just trying to point out that his form has been nowhere near as bad as some people are making out. I can't be bothered to look in detail, but I would imagine his form, for a forward playing in top tier football leagues (both Chelsea and RBL) over the last few years probably has him somewhere in the top 30-40 players. Prior to that he was in the top 5-10.

I prefer him on paper to say Solomon or Jota, and as you say the worse case scenario is that he's a solid bench option, which we're really lacking right now.

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

Jan 2024 - There's literally no downside to getting Werner on loan

May 2024 - Spurs lose FA Cup final , Werner misses crucial spot kick in penalty shootout

What a crock of shit.

We always lose on FA cup semi finals, not finals...