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Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Sep 2, 2004
9,728
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The issue is a case of unlucky genetics and poor treatment or management.

Yes I do believe his hamstrings are likely to be more susceptible to these injuries. If you look at his injury record it is littered with hamstring and groin injuries which have tendons in the same areas. But also his twin brother has also suffered with these types of injuries as well.

The part which is poor management is that prior to spurs he had one serious injury and since joining Spurs he's had a serious hamstring and groin injuries including the surgery that was done and has missed over 100 games plus game time from his loan at Hoffenheim. It's a ridiculous stat that he has almost as much premier league game time for Fulham as he does for Spurs despite only playing in the premier for them for 1 season.

If I'm honest, I don't see him being able to operate in that inverted LB role in the same way as Udogie. He doesn't seem to play the way a CM would play in the centre of the pitch. If he played there he'd be much more of a traditional LB breaking the lines on the inside the way we see Davies do at times. Aside from that he's more suited.to LW in this system but he still doesn't have the one on one capabilities that we need and is far behind our other options.

I think a transfer away (free or otherwise) would best suit his career and our squad management.
 

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Sep 2, 2004
9,728
15,022
Where would he play though?

He's definitely not got the skillset to be a winger in this system and I don't think he's a good enough ball carrier to be Udogie's understudy.

He's played his best football at LWB and I can't imagine us reverting to a back 5 anytime soon.
I don't think the ball carrying is the issue. I think that he doesn't have the agility to twist and turn in tight spaces the way a player going through the middle needs.

If you count his Fulham days as well, he's more suited to the LWF than LWB but even throughout that season when he was "on fire" he was very much on the periphery of games and would score from the back post. Not really what we need
 

ukdy

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2007
1,396
5,453
He's suffered for sure and I've been a critic of his. With the physical struggles he's had, it's also certain to affect his confidence and got to him mentally. I think we offer a 1yr extension to assess how he recovers. But he has to know he's not a starter.

If he rapidly improves and offers great things as we once lauded, then winner. But if not, we can sell or move him on either fit, or let him go as a free agent.

Even living up to the hype, I think he was a player for the club we were, not who we're trying to be.
 

Freddie

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2004
2,105
4,370
He's suffered for sure and I've been a critic of his. With the physical struggles he's had, it's also certain to affect his confidence and got to him mentally. I think we offer a 1yr extension to assess how he recovers. But he has to know he's not a starter.

If he rapidly improves and offers great things as we once lauded, then winner. But if not, we can sell or move him on either fit, or let him go as a free agent.

Even living up to the hype, I think he was a player for the club we were, not who we're trying to be.
I just don't see how we can justify another year after the 5 years he's already had and expect it to be different. He's already picked up an injury on his return from surgery. I feel like it would just be a charitable handout at this stage. As a club we paid a transfer fee and five years of wages and got next to nothing back so we can't keep prolonging it. It's horrible for the lad and I feel for his mental state but it's probably not even in his interests to give him an extra year. He needs to move on with his life at some stage, be it on or off the pitch. I hope we help him with that more than anything else.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
19,920
56,858
Sadly football is a ruthless business and has to be at times. I like him and I wish him well, but it's time to let him go. I do hope he finds himself elsewhere and can kick on.
 

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
9,194
16,601
The issue is a case of unlucky genetics and poor treatment or management.

Yes I do believe his hamstrings are likely to be more susceptible to these injuries. If you look at his injury record it is littered with hamstring and groin injuries which have tendons in the same areas. But also his twin brother has also suffered with these types of injuries as well.

The part which is poor management is that prior to spurs he had one serious injury and since joining Spurs he's had a serious hamstring and groin injuries including the surgery that was done and has missed over 100 games plus game time from his loan at Hoffenheim. It's a ridiculous stat that he has almost as much premier league game time for Fulham as he does for Spurs despite only playing in the premier for them for 1 season.

If I'm honest, I don't see him being able to operate in that inverted LB role in the same way as Udogie. He doesn't seem to play the way a CM would play in the centre of the pitch. If he played there he'd be much more of a traditional LB breaking the lines on the inside the way we see Davies do at times. Aside from that he's more suited.to LW in this system but he still doesn't have the one on one capabilities that we need and is far behind our other options.

I think a transfer away (free or otherwise) would best suit his career and our squad management.
How is what you describe as "poor management" actually poor management ? Nothing you have posted in anyway describes "poor management".
 

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Sep 2, 2004
9,728
15,022
How is what you describe as "poor management" actually poor management ? Nothing you have posted in anyway describes "poor management".
Yes, you're right. I didn't explain why I think it's poor management.

For clarity, I believe his injuries have been poorly managed by him and his personal training regime, rather than the club, because of the type of training he's been doing in the off season. There was a training video of him training with his PT under the Conte reign and they were doing lots of hamstring and quad work which was focused on explosive sprints, sled pushing and weight bearing exercises. This is all good if you're strengthening the muscle but it also leaves your muscles prone to tears and injuries.

From a injury prevention perspective what he should have been focusing on is trying to lengthen the muscle with time under tension movements like Nordics drops, single straight leg deadlifts because lengthening the muscle and the tendons will help reduce the likelihood of pulling up or tearing the muscle. He was doing the wrong type of training for his muscle type. It's an unfortunate but easy mistake to make because you won't always know that your muscles have a tendency to pulls until you have lots of muscle pulls so whilst it was hard to avoid I'd still say it was poorly managed.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
43,448
82,102
The kids mental health must be on a knife edge. We’re not a skint club, I say extend and get him out on loan and in the shop window until January 25
Have we not supported him and paid him a lot over the years. I don't see how we owe him anything other than to let him be free to leave in the summer. Wish him all luck but he needs to go.
 

ukdy

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2007
1,396
5,453
I just don't see how we can justify another year after the 5 years he's already had and expect it to be different. He's already picked up an injury on his return from surgery. I feel like it would just be a charitable handout at this stage. As a club we paid a transfer fee and five years of wages and got next to nothing back so we can't keep prolonging it. It's horrible for the lad and I feel for his mental state but it's probably not even in his interests to give him an extra year. He needs to move on with his life at some stage, be it on or off the pitch. I hope we help him with that more than anything else.

- We'll need a bigger squad next year with more matches if we play in Europe..
- A different injury he's now not going to struggle along with as he sees the benefit of early intervention surgery..

I think 1 year if he stays fit would be fair. He looked strong and played ok when he came back this season before going out injured again.. But if no extension then help him find a club, he might even like to go back to Fulham.

He's young, can recovery from Injury and has value. I don't see any football club letting that go for nothing.
 

Freddie

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2004
2,105
4,370
- We'll need a bigger squad next year with more matches if we play in Europe..
- A different injury he's now not going to struggle along with as he sees the benefit of early intervention surgery..

I think 1 year if he stays fit would be fair. He looked strong and played ok when he came back this season before going out injured again.. But if no extension then help him find a club, he might even like to go back to Fulham.

He's young, can recovery from Injury and has value. I don't see any football club letting that go for nothing.
But he's currently injured. He won't have an opportunity to show he can stay fit until after we've already given him a new contract, and despite his surgery I have a million doubts about that. And if he does stay fit he'll be able to leave on a free the following season anyway so we might still be letting him got for nothing.

And yes, we can help him find a new club but he does have an agent who'll be able to do that anyway. At this stage it just seems a case of throwing good money after bad.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
19,920
56,858
- We'll need a bigger squad next year with more matches if we play in Europe..
- A different injury he's now not going to struggle along with as he sees the benefit of early intervention surgery..

I think 1 year if he stays fit would be fair. He looked strong and played ok when he came back this season before going out injured again.. But if no extension then help him find a club, he might even like to go back to Fulham.

He's young, can recovery from Injury and has value. I don't see any football club letting that go for nothing.
Big if on the stays fit though. We haven't been able to rely on him at all this season, and he has been here a few years now. If this was his first season I would say keep him around, but at this point it's time to cut him loose.
 

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
9,194
16,601
Good luck to him but I wouldn't be giving him a contract unless it included reduced pay etc when injured.
 

Oh Teddy Teddy

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2017
5,421
12,959
The right decision ultimately. Feel for him, so much promise, but sure he’ll have plenty of options. Just a matter of the right fit and staying fit too…
 

Ghost Hardware

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
19,755
72,076
I only have sympathy for him really. Poor guy never had a chance with all those injuries. I actually don’t know why anyone would risk giving him a contract but I’m glad that there are teams interested. Best of luck to him.
 

sidford

Well-Known Member
Oct 20, 2003
11,742
32,007
Someone will take a chance on a pay as you play deal. Hopefully it works out for him and even if it does that doesn't mean spurs have made the wrong decision. Completely agree that this is the right move to make regardless of how he performs in the future.
The first of many difficult / ruthless decisions this summer
 

GutBucket

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2013
7,077
12,065
Could be one of those late bloomers if he can stay healthy, or retired soon. I really hope he makes it and wish him luck. I had him in my fantasy team when he got promoted with Fulham, had really high hopes for him.
 
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