Player Watch: Pierre-Emile Højbjerg

[Trix]

I guess with him if you compare him to bentancur there is a world of difference. Same position different results.

Same instruction?

 

[SpursSince1980]

4. People who rate Hojbjerg but think we should cash in, if there is a good offer.

I think, for some reason, this point keeps being ignored by quite a few on this thread.

Here is a slightly different way to look at it:
Is PEH a good player? Yes
Is he a fit with Ange system? Who knows?
Is he essential , untouchable? No. Not the same way Bentancur has become.
Are there other players who can do what he does, but are not depreciating assets and have higher ceilings? Yes.
Is this window the most money we can get for him? Unquestionably.

This isn’t a debate about quality and fit for me. It’s a business decision. Moreover, it is common sense.

 

[Whazam]

Always love a post like this. If someone doesn't rate Hojbjerg it must be because they lack "tactical awareness". Luckily we have people like Whazam who understand football so much better than us.

But funnily enough, those people never mention PEH's poor body shape when receiving the ball, which limits what he can then do with it as he has cut down his own options. Or his inability to move the ball quicker then move and receive it back and transition up the pitch, preferring instead to do everything at pedestrian pace with passes to CBs and FBs. He is a poor man's Scott Parker in my opinion. And I think he caused us more problems than he brought benefits as he caused us to play too deep and when he lost it, the other team were immediately in a dangerous position.

Luckily, we have guys like me who understand they have a very basic understanding of the tactical aspects of elite football, which in turn makes it even more obvious when people completely ignore said basics in their critique of him. You are proving my point perfectly here, mentioning him passing to fullbacks and blaming him for us sitting deep. By singling those things out, you either have the complete lack of tactical awareness I'm talking about, or you simply ignore how we've been playing, to get your dislike about him across.

But thanks, mate. I'll definitely try to bring up everything PEH sucks at the next time I want to argue that he doesn't suck as bad as many says on here. That makes sense to me.

Also, I can't agree about his poor body shape either. He posted some beach pics on Instagram the other day, and the shape of his body looked smashing. Have a lovely evening.

COYS,
Whazam

 

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead]

Not convinced there’s clubs really interested at the moment. Munich/Madrid links look fanciful to me a bit like the Tanganga Milan talk. If we do find a buyer I think it’ll be 15-20m tops to a club below that level

 

[yido_number1]

Same instruction?

if you need to be told not to stand behind the other teams midfield asking people not to pass you the ball then this game isn't for you.

 

[daveduvet]

I can’t believe the hate for PEH. Anyone that knows football can see he’s a fantastic footballer and team player, and as brave as they come. The style of football and tactics under Conte and Stellini really f**ked him up and I could see his decision making deteriorate as he had such a lack of options. I’d go as far to say he’d be brilliant in the spine of an Ange team.

I don’t disagree… like much of our playing 11 last year their confidence has been sucked out of them. I seem to recall he was deemed motm on several occasions last season?

 

[spursgirls]

People see what they want to see!

You mean ‘recollections may vary’

 

[mr ashley]

if you need to be told not to stand behind the other teams midfield asking people not to pass you the ball then this game isn't for you.

As a basic point I agree with you, however with more nuanced tactics, a midfielder standing in the shadow of the press (hiding behind the pressing striker) is becoming a thing.
watch this video by stat man Dave for a comprehensive analysis of brightons tactics.
Btw im not for one minute suggesting that Sissoko or winks ever did this - they just hid.
Is it possible that conte applied similar tactical ideas to de zerbi? I’ll let you decide

 

[ButchCassidy]

I think, for some reason, this point keeps being ignored but quite a few on this thread.

Here is a slightly different way to look at it:
Is PEH a good player? Yes
Is he a fit with Ange system? Who knows?
Is he essential , untouchable? No. Not the same way Bentancur has become.
Are there other players who can do what he does, but are not depreciating assets and have higher ceilings? Yes.
Is this window the most money we can get for him? Unquestionably.

This isn’t a debate about quality and fit for me. It’s a business decision. Moreover, it is common sense.

Also, does he want to leave? We’ll never know for sure but if teams like Atlético are in for him it wouldn’t surprise me. Good teams sell good players who no longer fit or are ready to move on all the time.

 

[mil1lion]

I think its a matter of wanting to get a new central midfielder. Bentancur is out for a bit and may take time to get back to his best. So we have 4 central midfielders to start the season. That should be enough but none of them have shown to be clear starters. Sarr and Skipp are still young and we don't want to give up on them. Bissouma has had 1 season so far and not in a possession team. We know how good he was for Brighton. So that leaves Hojbjerg as the most obvious one to sell given he isn't the best fit for Ange. Our starting 2 central midfielders are going to be weaker without Bentancur. However if we can sign another on this type of level we could be just as strong. If Bentancur was fit from the start I'm sure most would be happy with him alongside Bissouma leaving Hojbjerg as a squad player along with Sarr and Skipp.

 

[JacoZA]

In sports news, several top-flight managers were exposed as frauds today after a player didn’t pass the eye test of a bloke in a pub. More on this story to follow, of that we can all be certain.

But first, here’s Tom with the weather…

 

[Finchyid]

I can’t believe the hate for PEH. Anyone that knows football can see he’s a fantastic footballer and team player, and as brave as they come. The style of football and tactics under Conte and Stellini really f**ked him up and I could see his decision making deteriorate as he had such a lack of options. I’d go as far to say he’d be brilliant in the spine of an Ange team.

Sorry have you really said hjojberg is a fantastic player?

 

[C0YS]

He covers lots of space to make it look like he's working hard, but he pulls himself out of position.

He absolutely hides. Go rewatch our matches towards the back half of last season and just watch him play. He'll make a few passes to the CBs and then will run to a position behind a opposing player. It's maddening to watch.

He's a solid player, but he does not play the full 90 minutes. We absolutely burnt him out over the past three seasons, and he's a decent player for me. But the narrative of him being a viking that never quits is overblown for sure.

I dont know the context you are referring to but this is actually a very common pattern of play for a holding midfielder. You put yourself infront of the opposition line to essentially move defenders about and create spaces else where. In this case this flanks, while also also possibly becoming free at a later phase.

If it helps you understand positional play just think about it as building lots of triangle and diamond shapes and imagine it as a piggy in the middle type exercise. If a player tries to block one angle other angles open. Sometimes you don't move to make yourself available for passing but rather to create space somewhere else. This is frankly a basic basic part of modern football.

In any case Hojbjerg will bring us money if he is sold and the manager can find players to suit him more. But I didnt want us to sign Hojbjerg to begin with but I learnt to appreciate him. Predictably, DMs without playmaking abilities, or tough tackling etc. Neither of which are actually part of the basic skills which are needed in the position, will always have fans who will dismiss them. Always. Even Michael Carrick had people who were happy to see him gone.

People dont get DMs I guess in part because in England in the 80s and 90s, and much of the 00s every player was fundamentally box to box, or 'ball winners' modern DMs are really not about that. They are about maintaining structural integrity, plugging in gaps of space, link the defense and midfield together. Relieve pressure from defenders, set tempo etc etc etc.

Hojbjerg is good at some of these things and not so good at other aspects. What I will say trying to do these things when outnumbered in midfield is a job that is almost impossible. He will end up at a Bayern or an atletico, both teams better than us for good reason.

This might be a win for us as we have a new ideo of how we want to play and PEH might not be the perfect fit and he will generate a lot of money. In general I don't think Hojbjerg hid, I think he did his role what he was asked. I do think he tired greatly and was overplayed. I do think he can be over-eager and misread situations because, if anything, he is a little too much blood and thunder. But I also think he has generally performed pretty admirably particularly with so many CM injuries and changes going on around him.

I also think that if we could swap him for Paulinha we would be a better team. We can argue and what not but please can people realise that the manager isnt just picking a team (unless you are Redknapp school of management and to a lesser extent Ancelotti,). But rather implement either structures (Mourinho) or clear coacher patterns of play and movements (Most modern managers including Conte, Pep and, yes, Ange). Aso when you see players moving into certain positions, or even why a goalkeeper has kicked it out of touch over kicking it long, please realise there is more to it than just a players decision making.

 

[Trix]

if you need to be told not to stand behind the other teams midfield asking people not to pass you the ball then this game isn't for you.

See this is football because I didn't/don't see it like this.

I would certainly sell him if we get a good offer, but he isn't a player who hides for my money.

 

[yido_number1]

See this is football because I didn't/don't see it like this.

I would certainly sell him if we get a good offer, but he isn't a player who hides for my money.

Well that's subject to opinion but he 100% does and constantly points away to not receive the ball. My 9 year old boy even gets annoyed by it. Bissouma was a breath of thresh air as he'd take the ball anywhere and constantly called for it at the end of the season.

Anyway we can go round in circles for.ages but hope he gets a good move and good luck to him. I don't hate him I just dislike this type of footballer.

 

[dontcallme]

He's a 27 year old international with 2 years left on his contract. If we are to cash in, now is the time to do it. At worst, January.

I don't think he's a terrible player, just one a bit under the required level who doesn't have the right attributes for the role he's had.

Hopefully the Atletico interest is real. We still need to sell a few to create some squad places.

 

[JacoZA]

Last season, PEH averaged 55.3 passes received per 90 minutes. Highest of all our midfielders. Bissouma averaged 54.7.

If he's hiding, he's not very good at it.

 

[shoggy33]

I would be interested to see how he performs in a system that doesn't leave the midfielders so exposed, but ultimately he probably isn't what we need. He's decent and occasionally very good, but he doesn't really excel at anything. He is also one of the few players who we could actually get some money for, so for me I would sell if we get a reasonable offer.

 

[Trix]

Well that's subject to opinion but he 100% does and constantly points away to not receive the ball. My 9 year old boy even gets annoyed by it. Bissouma was a breath of thresh air as he'd take the ball anywhere and constantly called for it at the end of the season.

Anyway we can go round in circles for.ages but hope he gets a good move and good luck to him. I don't hate him I just dislike this type of footballer.

You can't say "well it's subject to opinion" and then follow it up with "but he 100% does". Unless you don't know what one of those two statements mean.

 

[Dannyspur]

Last season, PEH averaged 55.3 passes received per 90 minutes. Highest of all our midfielders. Bissouma averaged 54.7.

If he's hiding, he's not very good at it.

I would wager that a huge number of those passes received would be when he came deep facing our goal under no pressure from the opposition, receiving it from Dier and then passing it straight back to him.