Harry Winks - Leicester City

[brendanb50]

Definitely had a good game yesterday so what was different to last week, well where he played and the duties he had to perform for a start. The question last week was whether he can make something happen against ten man defences around the opposition box and that remains unanswered.

Agreed. My question for the longer term: Is he going to be that player who makes something happen like that?

Not questioning his potential growth for the next 3-5years but what sort of role is he likely to play, what sort of player is he?

I'm not detractor by the way - i like Winks, i think he offers a good mix of what you want in midfield but in my view, he lacks cutting edge in the final 3rd. An eye for a killer pass/dangerous shot from range don't seem to be consistently in his game.

Short term, i think he's a balance to a more attacking mid and maybe a more defensive one too (although he can do his share of defensive work). His workrate and occasional bursting runs are what gives us some attacking impetus but i'm not sure he's the one i'd want finishing up those moves with a final ball or shot on goal. Longer term those elements could develop but at the moment i see him as an engine with a bit of quality in the middle. Covers ground well, tackles and hassles well, passes well and gives the game a bit of tempo. Can he add that little bit of vision to his game though? I don't see why not but i'm not sure that's his role at the moment.

 

[punkisback]

Agreed. My question for the longer term: Is he going to be that player who makes something happen like that?

Not questioning his potential growth for the next 3-5years but what sort of role is he likely to play, what sort of player is he?

I'm not detractor by the way - i like Winks, i think he offers a good mix of what you want in midfield but in my view, he lacks cutting edge in the final 3rd. An eye for a killer pass/dangerous shot from range don't seem to be consistently in his game.

Short term, i think he's a balance to a more attacking mid and maybe a more defensive one too (although he can do his share of defensive work). His workrate and occasional bursting runs are what gives us some attacking impetus but i'm not sure he's the one i'd want finishing up those moves with a final ball or shot on goal. Longer term those elements could develop but at the moment i see him as an engine with a bit of quality in the middle. Covers ground well, tackles and hassles well, passes well and gives the game a bit of tempo. Can he add that little bit of vision to his game though? I don't see why not but i'm not sure that's his role at the moment.

People underestimate his physicality. Winks was eating up the yards and caught up to one of Arsenals attackers at one point. The boy is rapid! He just need to be a bit more proactive rather than passive, but has all the talent to be first choice for us.

 

[wirE]

Definitely had a good game yesterday so what was different to last week, well where he played and the duties he had to perform for a start. The question last week was whether he can make something happen against ten man defences around the opposition box and that remains unanswered.

We met a Newcastle team coming to defend that one point. They were lying flat with nine men at the back rather than a Arsenal team coming for the 3 points.

 

[Primativ]

So predictable yet hilarious and quite sad.

How is saying he had a good game but isn’t the answer as DM sad? ??‍

 

[thebenjamin]

Search and replace Winks for Carrick - 'what does he do'?

 

[Japhet]

Thought he was brilliant today, particularly in the first half - one of his best performances in a Spurs shirt.

That said, I'm starting to think that maybe he shouldn't be an automatic starter but should be picked depending on the opponent. As @theShiznit mentioned, he can be great against teams that attack and is actually vital to us beating the press and starting moves. However, against defensive teams who have no intention of pressing us, his best traits are nullified and he's got neither the creativity to break teams down nor the defensive ability to stop them breaking against us. This is why so there was such a backlash against him after the Newcastle game - he made a billion passes but none of them really did anything and his role seemed a bit pointless, exacerbated further by having an even more conservative passer alongside him in Sissoko.

In games like that we don't need someone with Winks' skillset and would be better served playing a straight up DM alongside someone more progressive like Ndombele. On paper it might look more negative, but in having an extra player in the middle who takes risks and has a bit more creativity, we're vastly increasing our chances of breaking down a stubborn defence, while a proper DM (whoever that might be - it's looking increasingly like we need to sign one) would be able to cut out moves in a way that neither Winks nor Sissoko are capable. Horses for courses n all that.

I think he'll come into his own in a midfield 3 between Ndombele and Lo Celso. Both of those players like a run at the opposition but there needs to be a player who sits deeper and allows them to do that. I know a midfield 3 leads to questions of who gets the nod up front, and I wouldn't advocate it for all games, but it's a nice option to have when we need more presence in midfield without losing our ability to get forward.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Why is it every season as a fan base we have to find one or two players to beat a stick with?

If a player has a bad game, fine, but to be overly analytical and critical game after game, even if players in question have solid games seems kinda pointless.

Before people start with the 'this is a forum built for debate and discussion' yeah, I'm not saying don't, I'm just saying time and a place for constructive praise and criticism.

On that note, like one or two other players yesterday I thought he was better than he was against Newcastle (not that difficult mind) and hopefully he improves from here.

 

[Shadydan]

How is saying he had a good game but isn’t the answer as DM sad? ??‍

Look at your posts through this entire thread, you constantly move the goalposts of your arguments which is why I said it's predictable because it's typical of you.

You can't base an argument off this match then cavaet what he did or didn't do in a completely seperate match and then throw up a straw man to vindicate your opinion, it doesn't work like that and to me it reads as agenda driven bollocks.

 

[NickHSpurs]

Thought he was brilliant today, particularly in the first half - one of his best performances in a Spurs shirt.

That said, I'm starting to think that maybe he shouldn't be an automatic starter but should be picked depending on the opponent. As @theShiznit mentioned, he can be great against teams that attack and is actually vital to us beating the press and starting moves. However, against defensive teams who have no intention of pressing us, his best traits are nullified and he's got neither the creativity to break teams down nor the defensive ability to stop them breaking against us. This is why so there was such a backlash against him after the Newcastle game - he made a billion passes but none of them really did anything and his role seemed a bit pointless, exacerbated further by having an even more conservative passer alongside him in Sissoko.

In games like that we don't need someone with Winks' skillset and would be better served playing a straight up DM alongside someone more progressive like Ndombele. On paper it might look more negative, but in having an extra player in the middle who takes risks and has a bit more creativity, we're vastly increasing our chances of breaking down a stubborn defence, while a proper DM (whoever that might be - it's looking increasingly like we need to sign one) would be able to cut out moves in a way that neither Winks nor Sissoko are capable. Horses for courses n all that.

I said almost exactly this in the thread last week. He's at his best when we're not expected to dominate possession as we don't need him in games like Newcastle at home, if you look at all the games he thrives in it's against the best sides who have plenty of the ball.

It's up to Poch to use him properly, Winks can't be blamed for being picked in games where it doesn't make sense tactically.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

Good to see Winksy 'fit' yesterday making forward runs with a turn of speed

Fingers crossed he stays 'fit' and pain free. We may then see the full potential of his game

Let’s hope so

 

[Primativ]

Search and replace Winks for Carrick - 'what does he do'?

Seriously? Very different players

 

[Tucker]

It was good seeing him get further up the pitch and making nice interplay’s with the attackers. I think he needs to do this more against the like of Newcastle, where he’s wasted in a deep lying role.

I don’t think there’s any issue with his ability, I think it’s the way he’s being used in certain games, and in certain periods of the games.

Winks is a key player for us imo. If he plays well, we generally get decent results.

 

[Primativ]

Look at your posts through this entire thread, you constantly move the goalposts of your arguments which is why I said it's predictable because it's typical of you.

You can't base an argument off this match then cavaet what he did or didn't do in a completely seperate match and then throw up a straw man to vindicate your opinion, it doesn't work like that and to me it reads as agenda driven bollocks.

Nonsense. He had a good game but you can’t seriously tell me the guy is an effective screen and DM of the defence? Laughable.

We were wide open again yesterday, the balance of the side is still all wrong. We attacked well yesterday but yet again we were wide open in defence and I think Winks is a major reason why! Now I’ll call your post bollocks, thanks!

 

[Klinsmannesque]

Plays markedly better against teams that don't sit back. Bit like Lucas in that respect. I don't think he has the capability of creating from deep against 10 men behind the ball but when against a better quality opposition he is excellent at short sharp passes to keep us ticking.

 

[mark87]

 

[Shadydan]

Nonsense. He had a good game but you can’t seriously tell me the guy is an effective screen and DM of the defence? Laughable.

We were wide open again yesterday, the balance of the side is still all wrong. We attacked well yesterday but yet again we were wide open in defence and I think Winks is a major reason why! Now I’ll call your post bollocks, thanks!

What a surprise - goalposts shifted yet again , you said defensively he's quite shocking, the rebuttal was that he made the 2nd highest amount of tackles in the Prem this weekend, you shift your argument to him not being an effective defensive screen, brilliant.

Once again your aiming criticism at him when you don't understand what he does in that role. Winks isn't a pure DM which is why he was breaking forward with the ball as in evidence of the part he played in Son winning the penalty, it's obvious that Pochettino doesn't want to play with a pure sitting midfielder and would rather our midfield collective chip go forward as a unit and go backwards as well, in fact if you really want to be critical of him going forward he had a couple of opportunities in which he should have made the most of when he rushed some passes but all in all I thought he had a very promising game - maybe try and pay attention to something before you offer an opinion?

 

[worcestersauce]

Why is it every season as a fan base we have to find one or two players to beat a stick with?

If a player has a bad game, fine, but to be overly analytical and critical game after game, even if players in question have solid games seems kinda pointless.

Before people start with the 'this is a forum built for debate and discussion' yeah, I'm not saying don't, I'm just saying time and a place for constructive praise and criticism.

On that note, like one or two other players yesterday I thought he was better than he was against Newcastle (not that difficult mind) and hopefully he improves from here.

Tradition, it's actually kid gloves these days compared to some of the crap Johnny Pratt took sometimes.

 

[Primativ]

What a surprise - goalposts shifted yet again , you said defensively he's quite shocking, the rebuttal was that he made the 2nd highest amount of tackles in the Prem this weekend, you shift your argument to him not being an effective defensive screen, brilliant.

Once again your aiming criticism at him when you don't understand what he does in that role. Winks isn't a pure DM which is why he was breaking forward with the ball as in evidence of the part he played in Son winning the penalty, it's obvious that Pochettino doesn't want to play with a pure sitting midfielder and would rather our midfield collective chip go forward as a unit and go backwards as well, in fact if you really want to be critical of him going forward he had a couple of opportunities in which he should have made the most of when he rushed some passes but all in all I thought he had a very promising game - maybe try and pay attention to something before you offer an opinion?

I understand he isn’t a pure DM, I’m saying we need a pure DM. Someone who is more solid defensively. I’m not moving the goalposts, I have said previously he isn’t an effective screen, not just post Arsenal. I’m glad you notice he isn’t great going forward too.

Poch may not want to play with a pure sitting midfielder but would you not agree that we are still far too open as a side and the balance is not yet correct? Poch can think what he wants but we are still conceding goals left right and centre.

Our problem is very much in the defensive phase of the game and has been for around a year now. We give up far too many attempts at goal.

My problem is, Winks is a limited player and is the most upgradable member of our central midfield. Well Sissoko is too, but I think both are squad players long term.

Winks has a vital role to play as a squad rotation option, yesterday’s 7/10 performance doesn’t change that.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Winks. Is. A. Pivot.

I have said before, his only limitations are the one's that he puts on himself. He can go as high as he wants in the game.

 

[ljinko888]

He does good in games where there is frantic tempo. His playing style is neat and he's got good agility and balance to retain the ball in tight situations. So yesterday he was miles better than against Newcastle. It's the games against the likes of Newcastle and Villa his shortfalls come short because here's the thing - we're going to have the bulk share of possession anyway. Those teams are happy to sit off and let us play in front of them. That's when you need an attacking spark to break them down. Winks in those games just feels like a middle man we don't need. Our defenders can push up higher and are good enough in possession to shift the ball left to right without having to defer to Winks to do it for them. He's a good little player no doubt and in the Champions League I'd always start him but against lower PL opposition I don't think he should be starting every game.