What's new

Player Watch Player Watch: Guglielmo Vicario

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
43,002
79,986
The player is allowed to stand his ground.

He doesn't have to move just because the opposition want to occupy the same space.
He didn't stand his ground. He moved into the keeper while he was in the air. If he just stops there it would have been fine. As soon as the ball is in the air and he moves into the keeper it becomes a foul. It's always been a soft one but it's always been given until more recently. It's like when a player goes up for a header and then the standing player backs in just a bit, it's a foul. If he doesn't back in and just stands his ground it's fine.
 

Sp3akerboxxx

Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
Apr 4, 2006
5,428
8,184
He didn't stand his ground. He moved into the keeper while he was in the air. If he just stops there it would have been fine. As soon as the ball is in the air and he moves into the keeper it becomes a foul. It's always been a soft one but it's always been given until more recently. It's like when a player goes up for a header and then the standing player backs in just a bit, it's a foul. If he doesn't back in and just stands his ground it's fine.
Have to agree to disagree mate.

Think we're just going in circles at this point.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,666
15,781
If say that he and the ref would argue he just braced himself today.

Would be an incredibly soft foul to give in my opinion.

Yeah I think I agree. I think because Vic has been so great for us so far there’s a tendency to want to rush to his defence, but I think he needs to be stronger in these situations and he will learn. It’s his first season in the league.

I just don’t see the kind of contact on Vic being a foul and I actually think it makes the game worse when we start over protecting keepers.
 

Aleks

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2012
1,369
7,114
Sorry but this whole stronger thing reeks of something your da would say

The strongest person can be knocked off balance when jumping.

when Vic was jumping he got bundled into, many times. It happened at City and now it is being used against us.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
43,002
79,986
Have to agree to disagree mate.

Think we're just going in circles at this point.
Like I say it's a soft one which means people will have different opinions of it. One thing is certain it's not a clear foul or non foul, just open to interpretation. Some refs are more lenient than others. I think if Vicario makes more of it then it may be given. We see those soft fouls often give if the player throws himself down. I think the fact he gets the ball doesn't help. How often do we see defenders get a little nudge and exaggerate the fall to win the foul?
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,666
15,781
Sorry but this whole stronger thing reeks of something your da would say

The strongest person can be knocked off balance when jumping.

when Vic was jumping he got bundled into, many times. It happened at City and now it is being used against us.

Not really. It’s not like it was even a strong barge that led to the goal. We’re literally talking about being backed into.
 

Sp3akerboxxx

Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
Apr 4, 2006
5,428
8,184
Like I say it's a soft one which means people will have different opinions of it. One thing is certain it's not a clear foul or non foul, just open to interpretation. Some refs are more lenient than others. I think if Vicario makes more of it then it may be given. We see those soft fouls often give if the player throws himself down. I think the fact he gets the ball doesn't help. How often do we see defenders get a little nudge and exaggerate the fall to win the foul?

Or get no nudge at all like Collins!

Still annoyed by that one.
 

Aleks

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2012
1,369
7,114
Not really. It’s not like it was even a strong barge that led to the goal. We’re literally talking about being backed into.
how many times have we seen players get backed into in the air and they go flying?

They were doing it on purpose, you can't even say it was a mistake. It is impeding.
 

Dazzazzad

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,250
4,435
I had a curious thought about standing your ground - could a team put 3 or 4 players around a keeper to completely box him in?

Granted you might be slight on numbers to actually attack the ball but it would be interesting to see what a ref makes of it.
 

Kirito

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
5,075
10,048
So these were definitely fouls that have been given since before I can remember. I only really watch us so I’m not sure if this has been happening in other games but clearly something has changed.

The keeper was knocked off balance mid air, the player in question was not challenging for the ball. Keepers are not outfield players so should be given extra protection from these types of challenges.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
43,002
79,986
I had a curious thought about standing your ground - could a team put 3 or 4 players around a keeper to completely box him in?

Granted you might be slight on numbers to actually attack the ball but it would be interesting to see what a ref makes of it.
I guess the issue then is it's offside as soon as they get a head on goal.
 

Kirito

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
5,075
10,048
I had a curious thought about standing your ground - could a team put 3 or 4 players around a keeper to completely box him in?

Granted you might be slight on numbers to actually attack the ball but it would be interesting to see what a ref makes of it.
Sean Dyche is taking notes
 

vuzp

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2004
1,447
1,311
I don’t understand where they changed the rule were you can play the man but not going for the ball,
Harrison was always just backing into the keeper but not trying to go for the ball.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,666
15,781
how many times have we seen players get backed into in the air and they go flying?

They were doing it on purpose, you can't even say it was a mistake. It is impeding.

Of course they were doing it on purpose. But we love it when Romero or Richy or whoever is trying to use similar legal tactics to gain an advantage. Call it being a bit streetwise or “shithousery” or whatever. We can moan about Vic not being protected enough all we want or we can actually do something to fix it.
 

ItsBoris

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,274
10,257
Yeah I think I agree. I think because Vic has been so great for us so far there’s a tendency to want to rush to his defence, but I think he needs to be stronger in these situations and he will learn. It’s his first season in the league.

I just don’t see the kind of contact on Vic being a foul and I actually think it makes the game worse when we start over protecting keepers.

Sure you can say he needs to be stronger but I don't think that's really the issue. I remember Gary Neville talking about how they used to approach games against teams like this at Man Utd, and it was play a very high line and keep possession. If you let a big brutal team have 20 corners and 50% possession then you're gonna concede from set pieces of course. I think the bigger issue was the team being a bit naive and trying to play the game too fast, at the tempo Everton wanted.

In those situations it would be nice if Vicario was a bit more dominant but that's not exactly the kind of keeper he is and to get the best out of him the whole team has to do its part. Who knows though maybe he'll hit the gym after this haha.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,342
57,896
There would be an insane amount of fouls given when players are shepherding the ball out for a corner or throw in if that was true.

Putting a man on the goalkeeper has been a valid tactic for at least as long as I've been alive.

In those situations the ball is under control. Shoving a player (especially a keeper) out of the way before the ball has arrived has always been a foul.
 

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,666
15,781
Sure you can say he needs to be stronger but I don't think that's really the issue. I remember Gary Neville talking about how they used to approach games against teams like this at Man Utd, and it was play a very high line and keep possession. If you let a big brutal team have 20 corners and 50% possession then you're gonna concede from set pieces of course. I think the bigger issue was the team being a bit naive and trying to play the game too fast, at the tempo Everton wanted.

In those situations it would be nice if Vicario was a bit more dominant but that's not exactly the kind of keeper he is and to get the best out of him the whole team has to do its part. Who knows though maybe he'll hit the gym after this haha.

Stronger just means stand his ground a bit more and be a bit smarter maybe. It’s not like Romero is massively pumped but we wouldn’t really say Romero needs to be stronger. I think for Vicario it will come with experience. He’s a young keeper in his first season in a new league.
 

thebenjamin

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
12,549
40,079
We need to start doing the same thing at the other end. Have Romero and VDV barge the opposition keeper into their net from every corner and free kick. If they give a foul, a precedent is set. If they don't, we can score illegal goals.
 
Top